AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[JackStreicher]

Here we go (again)

[JackStreicher]

Here we go (again)

Edited January 29, 2022 by JackStreicher

[Rhetoric]

4 hours ago, DocKeule said:

 Well seasons make only sense if there are changes. Plus 40k (where GW is now implanting two seasons a year) is a hint what direction they want to go.

Two GHB’s per year sounds atrocious.  That’s way too fast in my opinion. I’m hoping we go to a new part of Ghur in GHB 2022 that more updates the current rule set for matched play than rewrites them.  For the most part I think the current matched play rules in the GHB are pretty solid.  

[DocKeule]

I also hope they will stick to an annual overhaul in AoS. With partly new rules every sic month and new armybooks you would barely play a few games with the same ruleset.

But I am pretty certain the next season will take place in another realm. For once they don't seem to evolve the fluff of Gur right now much any way. So it's not like we are really exploring the realm (the "Fury..." box for example is located in Aqshy). 

GW wants to sell models. So this year they are pushing monsters. A while ago they were pushing magic with endless spells etc. and soon they will be pushing some other kind of unit.


BTW: I went to a tournament yesterday and played Namarti for the first time probably since late 2018. Not sure how sold I am on the concept frankly. It was still the old rules because the list-deadline was two weeks ago (and my list would have been 190 points over otherwise) but the problems I ran in would not change too much with 2" reach.

First game was against an all dragon Stormcast army. Twice during the game I charged a unit of two dragons with a ten Thrall unit and got reduced to two models with just "unleash hell" befor they ever got a chance to swing. 

The other two games where against nurgle where my Thralls got stuck in his Plaguebearers and were decimated mainly by the desease mechanic.

I am sure they can do some work when they have a chance to chose their battle. But the risk of getting stuck in  the opponent's screen is pretty high.

[That Guy]

On 1/24/2022 at 4:18 PM, DocKeule said:

The King's main benefit is making the eels battleline. So in an Akhelian-heavy list he will probably still have a place. 

If that is still the meta when the new book drops remains to be seen.

Hmmmm… you planted the idea in my head now, that it might actually be fine to drop Volturnos in my lists. Although losing some bravery buff and the option to buff himself/ sharks with +1A, I do get the option to add a second thrallmaster and a 5th Allopex with a Net for some utility. Losing re-rolls to hit of 1 always isn’t too big of a deal, because of fuethan giving you 2 flood rounds, and re-rolls to hit 1 within those rounds. Am I putting too many points in the thrallmasters now for 40 thralls? By adding a 5th allopex I have a max of 110p to play with. If I don’t add the 5th and delete Volturnos i have 275p. This is where it gets flexible. With the Isharran gen, I could drop another thrall unit for a block of 20 reivers and add in a lifeswarm endless spell. There’s even options to add a leviadon. Also if… we would drop the tidecaster, now a Thrallmaster could be general. This is now the cheapest way to make eels battleline. What would you guys do in this situation? I do have to admit I love the sharks and I plan on running them  heavy within fuethan, but I feel a nice hybrid list of aggression is possible between the sharks and namarti. Currently I came up with this adjustment:

Spoiler

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
- Army Subfaction: Fuethán
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (330)**
- Artefacts: Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Tidecaster (105)**
- General
- Command Traits: Lord of Storm and Sea
- Spells: Steed of Tides

BATTLELINE
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*

TERRAIN
Gloomtide Shipwreck (0)

OTHER
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons
Akhelian Allopexes (165)**
- Net

CORE BATTALIONS:
  *Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by That Guy

[DocKeule]

57 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Hmmmm… you planted the idea in my head now, that it might actually be fine to drop Volturnos in my lists. Although losing some bravery buff and the option to buff himself/ sharks with +1A, I do get the option to add a second thrallmaster and a 5th Allopex with a Net for some utility. Losing re-rolls to hit of 1 always isn’t too big of a deal, because of fuethan giving you 2 flood rounds, and re-rolls to hit 1 within those rounds. Am I putting too many points in the thrallmasters now for 40 thralls? By adding a 5th allopex I have a max of 110p to play with. If I don’t add the 5th and delete Volturnos i have 275p. This is where it gets flexible. With the Isharran gen, I could drop another thrall unit for a block of 20 reivers and add in a lifeswarm endless spell. There’s even options to add a leviadon. Also if… we would drop the tidecaster, now a Thrallmaster could be general. This is now the cheapest way to make eels battleline. What would you guys do in this situation? I do have to admit I love the sharks and I plan on running them  heavy within fuethan, but I feel a nice hybrid list of aggression is possible between the sharks and namarti. Currently I came up with this adjustment:

 

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
- Army Subfaction: Fuethán
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (330)**
- Artefacts: Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Tidecaster (105)**
- General
- Command Traits: Lord of Storm and Sea
- Spells: Steed of Tides

BATTLELINE
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*

TERRAIN
Gloomtide Shipwreck (0)

OTHER
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons
Akhelian Allopexes (165)**
- Net

CORE BATTALIONS:
  *Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

I would still switch one Thrallmaster for Lotann. You get the re-rolling 1s to hit at 25 points less (which might give you a triumph) also +1 bravery and he has a 5+ward.


I have really been missing my Ishlaen Guard yesterday. Just some more durable units to stall the enemy (well against mortal wounds they would have been just as helpless) and more mobile units so get or slingshot if necessary anywhere I need the.

My list yesterday:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
Enclave: Dhom-Hain
Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)*
General
Command Trait: Born From Agony
Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)*

Units 2 x Akhelian Allopexes (250)** - Retarius Net Launcher - Reinforced x 1
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (250)** - Razorshell Harpoon - Reinforced x 1

Behemoths Akhelian Leviadon (380)* -
Mount Trait: Ancient
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Prismatic Palisade (40)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
Drops: 4

 
For a tournament in two weeks I have swapped one of my turtles. Not sure if that is the best move. Sure the damage output for other units is higher but being monsters they can give us up tpo five extra victory points from battle tactics. Could be important in a close game.

So this will be my next shot a a more Namarti-based list now with the new rules:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
Enclave: Dhom-Hain
Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)*
General
Command Trait: Born From Agony
Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear

Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (75)*

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*

Units
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)** - Razorshell Harpoon - Reinforced x 1
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)***
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)***

Behemoths Akhelian Leviadon (380)*
Mount Trait: Ancient

Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
Drops: 5

 

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, DocKeule said:

I would still switch one Thrallmaster for Lotann. You get the re-rolling 1s to hit at 25 points less (which might give you a triumph) also +1 bravery and he has a 5+ward.


I have really been missing my Ishlaen Guard yesterday. Just some more durable units to stall the enemy (well against mortal wounds they would have been just as helpless) and more mobile units so get or slingshot if necessary anywhere I need the.

My list yesterday:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
Enclave: Dhom-Hain
Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)*
General
Command Trait: Born From Agony
Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)*

Units 2 x Akhelian Allopexes (250)** - Retarius Net Launcher - Reinforced x 1
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (250)** - Razorshell Harpoon - Reinforced x 1

Behemoths Akhelian Leviadon (380)* -
Mount Trait: Ancient
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Prismatic Palisade (40)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
Drops: 4

 
For a tournament in two weeks I have swapped one of my turtles. Not sure if that is the best move. Sure the damage output for other units is higher but being monsters they can give us up tpo five extra victory points from battle tactics. Could be important in a close game.

So this will be my next shot a a more Namarti-based list now with the new rules:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
Enclave: Dhom-Hain
Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)*
General
Command Trait: Born From Agony
Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
Lore of the Deeps: Tide of Fear

Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (75)*

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*

Units
2 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)** - Razorshell Harpoon - Reinforced x 1
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)**
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)***
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)***

Behemoths Akhelian Leviadon (380)*
Mount Trait: Ancient

Endless Spells & Invocations
The Burning Head (20)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
Drops: 5

 

Hmmmm, I will definitely pick me up Lotann for Namarti lists. he does seem to be good value with them.
Although I do have to defend having a second Thrallmaster as well. Currently, RAW you can stack the abilities of the Thrallmaster. Meaning you can run 2 and play of 6's for 2 hits and -1to wound(which is what I would pick almost any time I play them unless I know for sure that I can overcome the opponent that turn, in which I would pick re-roll 1's and 6's to hit cause 2 hits.) Thrallmasters are also more dynamic than Lotann in use, they can pick 1 of 3 effects whenever you need them most. Lotann is stuck on just the re-roll 1's. Lotann with his 5+ ward, will on average have 1 extra wound, sometimes 2. On a minor hero with a low wound count, ward saves of 5+ aren't the greatest of great. There is something to be said about defense in that case as well. Thrallmaster has a 4+ save vs Lotanns 6+. Against -1 rend lotann will be straight up saving with his ward, while Thrallmaster will block 1/3rd of succesful wound rolls and against rend 2,  the thrallmaster will still have a save. Another point to make is that a thrallmaster can actually fight well with a solid statline and 2 damage. He benefits from his own fighting stance as well. When it comes to bravery I took the Isharran with the trait: Lord of Storm and Sea. It's basically a Lotann aura, but for 2 bravery.

I really like your lists, your new one is fully amplified on defense(I often prefer extreme aggressive play), I would've liked a Thrallmaster in there for the -1 to wound as well, but you can't with your points. It's a nice balanced list, which I might try myself sometime! I really love the Leviadon as well. My favorite units overall are Allopex, Eidolon and Leviadon, they are just magnificent looking and get work done. The other units are great too though! These are just my favorites. Did your list fare well without the eels? Perhaps you are also so used to using the eels that you still need to get used to another setup perhaps. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by That Guy

[DocKeule]

1 minute ago, That Guy said:

Hmmmm, I will definitely pick me up Lotann for Namarti lists. he does seem to be good value with them.
Although I do have to defend having a second Thrallmaster a bit as well. Currently, RAW you can stack the abilities of the Thrallmaster. Meaning you can run 2 and play of 6's for 2 hits and -1to wound(which is what I would pick almost any time I play them unless I know for sure that I can overcome the opponent that turn, in which I would pick re-roll 1's and 6's to hit cause 2 hits.) Thrallmasters are also more dynamic than Lotann in use, they can pick 1 of 3 effects whenever you need them most.

True. Lotann's buff on the other hand would also apply to Reavers in the shooting phase.

I could imagine running two Thrallmasters (I only own one so far though) if I would go almost all in on Namarti (which I don't see me doing any time soon - at least not on a regilar basis). But for 390 or 420 points of Thralls I could not justify to bring 220 points for supporting heroes (295 when you also add Lotann) that will do very little on their own.

 

8 minutes ago, That Guy said:

2. On a minor hero with a low wound count, ward saves of 5+ aren't the greatest of great. There is something to be said about defense in that case as well. Thrallmaster has a 4+ save vs Lotanns 6+. Against -1 rend lotann will be straight up saving with his ward, while Thrallmaster will block 1/3rd of succesful wound rolls and against rend 2,  the thrallmaster will still have a save. Another point to make is that a thrallmaster can actually fight well with a solid statline and 2 damage. He benefits from his own fighting stance as well. When it comes to bravery I took the Isharran with the trait: Lord of Storm and Sea. It's basically a Lotann aura, but for 2 bravery.

Lotann's save should not matter. Is is not ment to go into combat and he should never be the next visible model to shoot. The Thrallmaster's stats are a little bette but I think you would want to keep him behind the lines as well until his Thralls are mostly dead. 

Both are pretty vulnerable to spells. There Lotann's ward might save him at least once.


 

 

20 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I really like your lists, your new one is fully amplified on defense, I would've liked a Thrallmaster in there for the -1 to wound as well, but you can't with your points. It's a nice balanced list, which I might try myself sometime! I really love the Leviadon as well. My favorite units overall are Allopex, Eidolon and Leviadon, they are just magnificent looking and get work done. The other units are great too though! These are just my favorites. Did your list fare well without the eels? Perhaps you are also so used to using the eels that you still need to get used to another setup perhaps. 

I would have to cut an eel to bring the Thrallmaster in and still keep Lotann.

We are starting an AoS league soon in my area where only the faction is set and the lists can be changed for every game. I will probably go all in on Namarti a few times once I have the new models ready. I could bring 40 Thralls and 30 Reavers. Plus Lotann and a Thrallmaster I would be at 1.215 points. Adding Eidolon of the Storm and a Leviadon I would be at 1925. (Well, I would probably bringt either or to have at least a few Ishlaen eels to soak up the shooting).

I was really missing the mobility of my eels yesterday. The dragon game was just silly but in both Nurgle games more durability and mobility might have helped (although most damage came from mortal wounds).

 

[That Guy]

23 hours ago, DocKeule said:

True. Lotann's buff on the other hand would also apply to Reavers in the shooting phase.

I could imagine running two Thrallmasters (I only own one so far though) if I would go almost all in on Namarti (which I don't see me doing any time soon - at least not on a regilar basis). But for 390 or 420 points of Thralls I could not justify to bring 220 points for supporting heroes (295 when you also add Lotann) that will do very little on their own.

I got lucky, I bought 1 box for my own and my friend wants to have a big amount of Fyreslayers, so we decided to just get a second box! I will convert/kitbash my second Thrallmaster. This is my concern too. in my list as it is now. If I put 220p down on support heroes for a 520p Thralls group. I could swap out for Lotann of course, but in case of only having thralls it won't benefit any reivers in the shooting phase of course, which means that I would have to drop the 5th allopex and the thrallmastes. I would able to fit Lotann with a unit of 10 reivers in that case.  I'm not sure if I like it more tbh. Dropping a thrall unit on top of that makes me 5p short of fitting a second 10 reivers, which means i would have to drop the Tidecaster as well. It's possible since the thralls already make up enough for the battleline. I would also be able to fit in a Soulrender for some minor revives, and to make reivers battleline. I could make the following list:

Spoiler

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
- Army Subfaction: Fuethán
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Lotann, Warden of the Soul Ledgers (75)*
Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (330)**
- Artefacts: Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Soulrender (90)**
- General
- Command Traits: Lord of Storm and Sea

BATTLELINE
1 x Namarti Reavers (340)*
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*

TERRAIN
Gloomtide Shipwreck (0)

OTHER
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons

CORE BATTALIONS:
  *Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)

I do not dislike it, but I do love the use of 2 thrallmasters with a lot of thralls. another simple change, would be to simply drop my 5th allopex and bring 1 of the thrall units up to 20. So that way i would run 20,20,10 with 2 thrallmasters and 2 units of sharks. In this case dropping the tidecaster for Lotann is also possible, because the thralls fill all the battleline. A much bigger focus on melee combat in that case:

Spoiler

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
- Army Subfaction: Fuethán
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (330)**
- Artefacts: Cloud of Midnight
Isharann Tidecaster (105)**
- General
- Command Traits: Lord of Storm and Sea
- Spell: Steed of Tides

BATTLELINE
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*

TERRAIN
Gloomtide Shipwreck (0)

OTHER
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)**
- Harpoons

CORE BATTALIONS:
  *Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1965/2000)

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by That Guy

[JackStreicher]

I've finished a hero (except the base)! (the rest is about 20% done)
I really hope Soulscryers get more viable.

[DocKeule]

@That Guy I would probably try to find points for a turtle to get the +1 save and the +1 to hit for your Namarti. 

Please give us a little report how the lost worked. I am still a little torn on the whole Namarti-focus.

[That Guy]

2 hours ago, DocKeule said:

@That Guy I would probably try to find points for a turtle to get the +1 save and the +1 to hit for your Namarti. 

Please give us a little report how the lost worked. I am still a little torn on the whole Namarti-focus.

Hmmm i would like to and i know the turtle is top tier for the namarti, but i want my lists to focus the allopex units as prio 1. Adding the turtle means i have to cut them even more and i simply don’t want to. It would be an entire different list. I could drop some heroes and some thralls, but it defeats the purpose of the list in that case. I would end up with like 30 thralls benefitting from the turtle. The rest of the units really don’t. It’s why originally i had volturnos in there as well. His bravery made it so i could not drop any sharks if he was close and since he’s fast he can keep up and his command ability was able to buff the sharks, while always giving them re-roll 1’s to hit even for their shooting. I’ll cook up a namarti prio list as well and it will include the turtle. 

[vinnyt]

@That Guy

Something to consider is that I'm not sure reversing the tides in a new shark build is necessarily the ideal play for fuethan (I know, absolute heresy). You really want to get the most out of their shooting initially, and then commit them wherever you want. I'm extremely intrigued by the double thrallmaster 2x20 thrall list and definitely would like to see how that turns out without a turtle. Offensive thralls really don't like reversed tides, since the cover save turn 1 is super duper helpful for em. 20 is also getting a little bit close to the danger zone of thralls where you're gonna have to commit a lot of resources to saving them if they take a fair amount of damage. 5+ save and 1 wound on infantry is just rough without a cooked in ward save. The -1 to wound in combat is huge but also limits your speed a bit. Remember to not pile in outside of your bubble or you're gonna be super sad. 

 

@DocKeule

What turns me off of the namarti spam list is stuff like what just happened at LVO. 4 fulminators with 30 xbows are gonna evaporate basically any number of thralls. There's definitely space for reavers to put in some excellent work, but thralls are one of those things where they're gonna be super good in some matchups, but at the end of the day, you're getting 30 infantry wounds with a 5+ base save. They'll do quite a bit of damage, but there's a reason that grave guard spam builds aren't hitting top tables. 

 

Since it looks like our new book is TBD, I've been fiddling with some lists and came up with:

Vinny's Moving Castle mk 1:

Fuethan

Storm eidolon general with Cloud and reroll charge/runs

Akhelian King w/-1 to hit mount trait 

 

2x10 thralls

1x10 reavers

 

3x2 sharks with the brrt brrt 

 

King is there to bubble out the rerolls for sharks on turns 1 and 3. This list pretty much starts as a bubble and then quickly redeploys wherever it needs to go. It's gonna struggle mightily against stuff like nurgle, but honestly that's a pretty brutal matchup for us rn. It should do ok against dragon spam and is a very good counter to the annihilator build that got T4 at LVO since stand and shoot from the sharks/reavers will cripple an annihilator unit while the sharks can remove raptors. Possibility here is to swap reavers for thralls and switch the king to Volturnos for the Big Bubble of Buffs. 

or

Vinny's Moving Castle mk 2:

Fuethan

Storm eidolon general with Cloud 

Akhelian King general w/-1 to hit mount trait and reroll run/charges

 

2x3 Ishlaen

1x10 thralls

 

3x2 sharks with the brrt brrt

 

Very similar to the last list, but much more mobile and with screens that can tank more. Since I'm not flipping tides, the Ishlaen are gonna be at a 3+ unrendable on turn 1, and with lengthwise deployment, will still be able to screen the shark battery. Unfortunately this list HATES dragons and dealing with them is gonna be the Meta Question for the foreseeable future. 

 

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with the new rules against Dragons and/or Nurgle. Work has been out of control recently so haven't been able to get any games in

[That Guy]

6 hours ago, vinnyt said:

@That Guy

Something to consider is that I'm not sure reversing the tides in a new shark build is necessarily the ideal play for fuethan (I know, absolute heresy). You really want to get the most out of their shooting initially, and then commit them wherever you want. I'm extremely intrigued by the double thrallmaster 2x20 thrall list and definitely would like to see how that turns out without a turtle. Offensive thralls really don't like reversed tides, since the cover save turn 1 is super duper helpful for em. 20 is also getting a little bit close to the danger zone of thralls where you're gonna have to commit a lot of resources to saving them if they take a fair amount of damage. 5+ save and 1 wound on infantry is just rough without a cooked in ward save. The -1 to wound in combat is huge but also limits your speed a bit. Remember to not pile in outside of your bubble or you're gonna be super sad. 

 

@DocKeule

What turns me off of the namarti spam list is stuff like what just happened at LVO. 4 fulminators with 30 xbows are gonna evaporate basically any number of thralls. There's definitely space for reavers to put in some excellent work, but thralls are one of those things where they're gonna be super good in some matchups, but at the end of the day, you're getting 30 infantry wounds with a 5+ base save. They'll do quite a bit of damage, but there's a reason that grave guard spam builds aren't hitting top tables. 

 

Since it looks like our new book is TBD, I've been fiddling with some lists and came up with:

Vinny's Moving Castle mk 1:

Fuethan

Storm eidolon general with Cloud and reroll charge/runs

Akhelian King w/-1 to hit mount trait 

 

2x10 thralls

1x10 reavers

 

3x2 sharks with the brrt brrt 

 

King is there to bubble out the rerolls for sharks on turns 1 and 3. This list pretty much starts as a bubble and then quickly redeploys wherever it needs to go. It's gonna struggle mightily against stuff like nurgle, but honestly that's a pretty brutal matchup for us rn. It should do ok against dragon spam and is a very good counter to the annihilator build that got T4 at LVO since stand and shoot from the sharks/reavers will cripple an annihilator unit while the sharks can remove raptors. Possibility here is to swap reavers for thralls and switch the king to Volturnos for the Big Bubble of Buffs. 

or

Vinny's Moving Castle mk 2:

Fuethan

Storm eidolon general with Cloud 

Akhelian King general w/-1 to hit mount trait and reroll run/charges

 

2x3 Ishlaen

1x10 thralls

 

3x2 sharks with the brrt brrt

 

Very similar to the last list, but much more mobile and with screens that can tank more. Since I'm not flipping tides, the Ishlaen are gonna be at a 3+ unrendable on turn 1, and with lengthwise deployment, will still be able to screen the shark battery. Unfortunately this list HATES dragons and dealing with them is gonna be the Meta Question for the foreseeable future. 

 

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with the new rules against Dragons and/or Nurgle. Work has been out of control recently so haven't been able to get any games in

Thanks for the feedback! In my last list you could drop the tidecaster for Lotann than either make the Eidolon or thrallmaster your general and either also give them Lord of Sea trait or go for something more combat oriented, since now lotann boosts some bravery. 

As for your lists. Your first one is simply illegal. Reavers are only battleline with an Isharran general. Your second list got me shaking to my core and i will steal *cough cough* borrow your list for further research.

Also my all in Namarti Corps list:

Spoiler

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Fuethán
    - Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
    - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER
Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (330)
    - General
    - Command Traits: Born From Agony
    - Artefacts: Cloud of Midnight
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Lotann (75)*

BATTLELINE
1 x Namarti Reavers (340)*
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*
Namarti Thralls (130)*

BEHEMOTH
Akhelian Leviadon (380)*

TERRAIN
Gloomtide Shipwreck (0)

CORE BATTALIONS:
*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)

Sadly it just about misses the single Battle Regiment. You’ll have to either drop Lotann or a Thrallmaster for that and than you can drop a thrall unit and put in a Shark/ 10 more Reavers. If you drop a Thrallmaster you can fit a lifeswarm endless spell, but you’d have to make your eidolon a wizard and with just a normal cast maybe that’s not so exciting. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by That Guy

[DocKeule]

24 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Hmmm i would like to and i know the turtle is top tier for the namarti, but i want my lists to focus the allopex units as prio 1. Adding the turtle means i have to cut them even more and i simply don’t want to. It would be an entire different list. I could drop some heroes and some thralls, but it defeats the purpose of the list in that case. I would end up with like 30 thralls benefitting from the turtle. The rest of the units really don’t. It’s why originally i had volturnos in there as well. His bravery made it so i could not drop any sharks if he was close and since he’s fast he can keep up and his command ability was able to buff the sharks, while always giving them re-roll 1’s to hit even for their shooting. I’ll cook up a namarti prio list as well and it will include the turtle. 

I get your point. Also you are probably better off with at least a few units that can jump over the front line and take objectives or threaten characters. Even the turtle often has a hard time doing that at 10" movement.

I guess it will be a lot of trial and error. Not to mention going through it all again when the new book drops.

 

 

3 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

What turns me off of the namarti spam list is stuff like what just happened at LVO. 4 fulminators with 30 xbows are gonna evaporate basically any number of thralls. There's definitely space for reavers to put in some excellent work, but thralls are one of those things where they're gonna be super good in some matchups, but at the end of the day, you're getting 30 infantry wounds with a 5+ base save. They'll do quite a bit of damage, but there's a reason that grave guard spam builds aren't hitting top tables. 

Agreed. Thralls are also very vulnerable against "unleash hell". In my dragon-game in saturday I had pairs of Stormcast dragons kill eight of ten Thralls on the charge twice. On the other hand that would have also killed two of three eels. Only sharks would be able to at least hit once. (I am very curious if the new books will give us anything regarding MWs).

With the current rules I also don't see Namarti rising to the top of the roster at least competitively. For casual games I could see me using them more often (or starting using them). 

 

28 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

Vinny's Moving Castle mk 1:

Fuethan

Storm eidolon general with Cloud and reroll charge/runs

Akhelian King w/-1 to hit mount trait 

 

2x10 thralls

1x10 reavers

 

3x2 sharks with the brrt brrt 

 

King is there to bubble out the rerolls for sharks on turns 1 and 3. This list pretty much starts as a bubble and then quickly redeploys wherever it needs to go. It's gonna struggle mightily against stuff like nurgle, but honestly that's a pretty brutal matchup for us rn. It should do ok against dragon spam and is a very good counter to the annihilator build that got T4 at LVO since stand and shoot from the sharks/reavers will cripple an annihilator unit while the sharks can remove raptors. Possibility here is to swap reavers for thralls and switch the king to Volturnos for the Big Bubble of Buffs. 

The generic king still needs to be the general to use his command ability I think.

And yes Nurgle is a drag. But what did me in in my second Nurgle-game was the ability from the Glotkin to make them and another unit charge at the end of my movement phase if I finnished a move within 9 or 12" (not sure). That gave him the chance to force me into engagement I did not want twice and lost me the game in round four.

 

49 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

Vinny's Moving Castle mk 2:

Fuethan

Storm eidolon general with Cloud 

Akhelian King general w/-1 to hit mount trait and reroll run/charges

 

2x3 Ishlaen

1x10 thralls

 

3x2 sharks with the brrt brrt

Instinctively I would prefer this one for it's mobility alone.

 

50 minutes ago, vinnyt said:

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with the new rules against Dragons and/or Nurgle. Work has been out of control recently so haven't been able to get any games in

Yes both in tournament on Saturday. Dragons can be killed but they just mortal wound us to death in the shooting phase unless the opponent roles very poorly. And as I said "unleash hell" against a pair or worse four dragons is brutal. (Especially since the -1 to his does not factor in).

With Nurgle my main issues have been the mortal wounds as well. Also we just don't do too much against them. After save, ward and heeling they take very little casualties (same with Gravelords in my experience). Exept for one combat against the Glotkin most damage I took came from the disease-mechanic. That just tears your units down slowly. But that is thematic and I really like it frankly.

 

[DocKeule]

24 minutes ago, That Guy said:

As for your lists. Your first one is simply illegal. Reavers are only battleline with an Isharran general. Your second list got me shaking to my core and i will steal *cough cough* borrow your list for further research.

I think they changes that with the new box. Now Reavers als always battleline. But neither the app nor the warscroll builder have been updated yet.

[That Guy]

We knew it was coming, but confirmation and BEAUTIFUL cover art IMO:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/31/age-of-sigmar-roadmap-chart-out-the-next-four-battletomes-or-is-it-six/

 

[DocKeule]

"Winter" should mean the books are released in February right?


BTW: Since Thralls have been fixed this would be my crazy wishlist for the new book:

- Change void drum from +1 save to 6+ ward for everybody: This would be a mixed bag. A better save can potentially mitigate more than one wound. On the other hand this would at least give us a small counter to mortal wounds. 

- Soulscryer: There is no reason why he has to show up withing 6" of the table edge when he just appears out of thin air (or the aether sea). Have him just keep 9" distance to all enemy units and then he is pretty much OK.

- Akhelian King & Volturnos: Should be able to use their command ability in every combat phase. (Maybe tune Volturnos down to D3 units). There are a lot of other heroes that have similar command abilities that can be used all game.

- Eidolon of the Storm: Already mostly pretty good. The spear should probably be rend 3 and maybe even a little bit more damage.

- Eidolon of the Sea: Well...increase the reach for the spell and even then reduce the points to maybe 300 or so? I like the concept but I can't really find the points especially with the increases for the important units lately.

- Soulrender: A quick fix would be to let him use "lurelight" in every battleshock phase. But honstly I would like to see the whole warscroll be rewritten from scratch. This is such a great model. It should be tankier and as fighty as the Thrallmaster.

- New models: I still think there are very few rolls that aren't filled yet. One idea I had a few days ago would be the aquaristic equivalent of Aetherwings. Just a low cost throw away unit to take objectives and take the first shooting early in the game. Maybe even some animal that is summoned through the aether see.



 

[Siorra]

35 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

"Winter" should mean the books are released in February right?

Last day of Winter is 20th March (which is kinda weird but that's what it is). So really, pre-order will be any time in the next 6 weeks.

If that's the final cover art, I'm guessing that means no new units, as they usually feature on the front, right? Saying this, as much as I would love crab-riding Namarti with spears, what could really be added to the army with new units that can't be added with a few warscroll changes instead? I just hope for some units to be "modernised", like Volturnos' command ability working every turn, Morrsarr shocks not being once per game (it should trigger on the charge imo), the Soulrender being a good combat hero, etc.

[That Guy]

3 hours ago, DocKeule said:

"Winter" should mean the books are released in February right?


BTW: Since Thralls have been fixed this would be my crazy wishlist for the new book:

- Change void drum from +1 save to 6+ ward for everybody: This would be a mixed bag. A better save can potentially mitigate more than one wound. On the other hand this would at least give us a small counter to mortal wounds. 

- Soulscryer: There is no reason why he has to show up withing 6" of the table edge when he just appears out of thin air (or the aether sea). Have him just keep 9" distance to all enemy units and then he is pretty much OK.

- Akhelian King & Volturnos: Should be able to use their command ability in every combat phase. (Maybe tune Volturnos down to D3 units). There are a lot of other heroes that have similar command abilities that can be used all game.

- Eidolon of the Storm: Already mostly pretty good. The spear should probably be rend 3 and maybe even a little bit more damage.

- Eidolon of the Sea: Well...increase the reach for the spell and even then reduce the points to maybe 300 or so? I like the concept but I can't really find the points especially with the increases for the important units lately.

- Soulrender: A quick fix would be to let him use "lurelight" in every battleshock phase. But honstly I would like to see the whole warscroll be rewritten from scratch. This is such a great model. It should be tankier and as fighty as the Thrallmaster.

- New models: I still think there are very few rolls that aren't filled yet. One idea I had a few days ago would be the aquaristic equivalent of Aetherwings. Just a low cost throw away unit to take objectives and take the first shooting early in the game. Maybe even some animal that is summoned through the aether see.



 

Those are pretty reasonable requests, except that they only recently dropped points on the Sea Eidolon already. The spell lore is currently just not strong enough to warrant him vs the +1 wound bubble that the Storm gives. Void Drum change needs to go to 10+ and i'm down for that 6+ ward. I'll take that on Allopexes 😆 or honestly anything ofc. Soulrender I like to see it re-written as well. Perhaps make him a bit more tanky, than let him regularly function like a gothizzar in Ossiarch bonereapers and his hook ability when he kills others lets him revive others. Perhaps in a certain sub-faction he can revive better, or without kills. 

-Models I'd love to see a non rider unit. Even the Leviadon has riders. I'd like just see a unit of killer crabs. Maybe something like spider crabs:

And we need a Kraken at some point... I know we already have the leviadon as a monster. But it would be amazing if we just have a pure monster of a kraken that is made for pure utter destruction. No aura buffs, perhaps aura debuffs and just pure utter destructive abilities and perhaps some tentacle shenanigans. I feel like this army misses this, pure beastie units.

  

5 hours ago, DocKeule said:

I think they changes that with the new box. Now Reavers als always battleline. But neither the app nor the warscroll builder have been updated yet.

I stand corrected. I just checked and you are absolutely right! That's amazing. I'll probably play some more around with the lists once the tome actually drops in this case. I can try and make another 10 lists, but a lot of things are about to change drastically for us. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by That Guy

[JackStreicher]

an eel with Arms?

[Orbei]

5 hours ago, DocKeule said:

- Eidolon of the Storm: Already mostly pretty good. The spear should probably be rend 3 and maybe even a little bit more damage.

- Eidolon of the Sea: Well...increase the reach for the spell and even then reduce the points to maybe 300 or so? I like the concept but I can't really find the points especially with the increases for the important units lately.

I'd love the Storm to be a bit more killy even if it meant a slight point bump but it's a pretty good pick as is. I'd really like for the Sea to get +1 or 2 to cast spells. The Sea's healing mechanic also needs to be changed from the anti-synergy it currently has with the casting rerolls. The Storm heals reliably by doing what it wants to do, while the Sea is punished for using its own reroll mechanic. It would also be cool if these could start off the board and then deep strike in dealing mortal wounds to things. I imagine them crashing into the battle as a torrent of power channeled through the ethersea.

5 hours ago, DocKeule said:

Soulrender: A quick fix would be to let him use "lurelight" in every battleshock phase. But honstly I would like to see the whole warscroll be rewritten from scratch. This is such a great model. It should be tankier and as fighty as the Thrallmaster.

Would like to see these guys get a better melee profile. I wouldn't mind if the whole bringing back models idea is scrapped entirely in favor of something else. Right now 2x thrallmasters has a certain appeal if going namarti heavy; would prefer if soulreavers and thrallmasters could be a namarti buffing tag team instead. 

[vinnyt]

9 hours ago, DocKeule said:

The generic king still needs to be the general to use his command ability I think.

He's mostly there just for the 12" bubble of akhelian reroll ones to hit which is an innate ability. I miiiiight make him the general if I don't find that rerolling runs/charges on the eidolon is worth it, but anything that saves me command points is extremely helpful since IDK tend to be a pretty CP hungry army, in my experience. 

[Rhetoric]

New book hype train fellow deep sea dwellers! Can’t wait!  

[Beliman]

3.0 only has a few models with CAs in their warscrolls (all others were removed), and all new battletomes have a lot less tables (artifacts, spells, etc...) and all their Abilities are completely simplified: 3 main abilities+1 subfaction ability (Nurgle seems to have the most "complex" ones...).

Maybe it will be diferent, but I suggest to lower your expectations.