AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

11 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

Ethereal VLOZD with extra attacks hitting on 2’s feels too good to pass up for your list. Also GG with exploding 6’s hitting on 2’s will be scary in combat. 
 

LOB feels like the most obviously good sub faction initially.

LoB has some obvious appeal for sure (which is nice for me, I love that and fielded it from even before the White Dwarf buffs). However, I wouldn't discount the other Legions. They don't have a super obvious centerpiece option like the VLOZD you mention, but they definitely have some good stuff going on.

Legion of Night has some great mobility, and their Heroic Action alone gives them a huge leg up in the current season. I know some folks are down on the Mannfred changes, but I think his 2 extra wounds and improved hunger will be a great multiplier on the Armour of Templehof, and if you aren't able to one-phase him through his 3+/6++, you probably won't kill him all game. What's more, his counter-charge ability means it's very easy to avoid exposing him to enemy charges while getting melee value out of him.

Kastelai lost the wounds buff and the movement buff is kinda meh, but boosts to attacks and damage are multiplicative with each other, which is amazing. And the increase to base rend on Blood Knights helps with your main unbuffable stat in an edition where Rend is super important. If you take Vhordrai and/or the command trait to spread buffs around, you can get early increases to big chunks of your army and just do massive damage, and the boosts to our Summonables means you don't need to sacrifice much in the way of Blood Knights to fit all that in.

Vyrkos got a radical shift in functionality, but with Summonable units going hardcore stonks, their new direction is amazing. Add in the Belladama buffs and I don't think I need to say much more.

Even Avengorii seem better than they used to be (which admittedly, isn't hard). The key there is that you don't look at the allegiance abilities for the buffs, you look at how the new Lauka Vai and Vengorian Lord scrolls interact with their monster mash battleline. Will it win tournaments? Very unlikely. Will it win games? Maybe! Much more likely to than previously.

[MotherGoose]

34 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

LoB has some obvious appeal for sure (which is nice for me, I love that and fielded it from even before the White Dwarf buffs). However, I wouldn't discount the other Legions. They don't have a super obvious centerpiece option like the VLOZD you mention, but they definitely have some good stuff going on.

Legion of Night has some great mobility, and their Heroic Action alone gives them a huge leg up in the current season. I know some folks are down on the Mannfred changes, but I think his 2 extra wounds and improved hunger will be a great multiplier on the Armour of Templehof, and if you aren't able to one-phase him through his 3+/6++, you probably won't kill him all game. What's more, his counter-charge ability means it's very easy to avoid exposing him to enemy charges while getting melee value out of him.

Kastelai lost the wounds buff and the movement buff is kinda meh, but boosts to attacks and damage are multiplicative with each other, which is amazing. And the increase to base rend on Blood Knights helps with your main unbuffable stat in an edition where Rend is super important. If you take Vhordrai and/or the command trait to spread buffs around, you can get early increases to big chunks of your army and just do massive damage, and the boosts to our Summonables means you don't need to sacrifice much in the way of Blood Knights to fit all that in.

Vyrkos got a radical shift in functionality, but with Summonable units going hardcore stonks, their new direction is amazing. Add in the Belladama buffs and I don't think I need to say much more.

Even Avengorii seem better than they used to be (which admittedly, isn't hard). The key there is that you don't look at the allegiance abilities for the buffs, you look at how the new Lauka Vai and Vengorian Lord scrolls interact with their monster mash battleline. Will it win tournaments? Very unlikely. Will it win games? Maybe! Much more likely to than previously.

Agree with everything you've said, I'm loving the new book, but admittedly I immediately disliked mannfreds direction the moment I saw his previous warscroll leak 2 years ago - was it strong? Obviously, but it felt a bit lame and not fun to play against - especially so for melee focused armies that would find it extremely difficult or nigh on impossible to kill or wound him at all. I didn't try him out much due to that, and much prefer the direction they've taken with him now - it also feels a little more thematic.

 

Neferata is an outright beast now and vampire magic is FINALLY scary rather than just 6 inches of extra move (which was very good, but very boring too especially when it's really the only decent spell in a lot of games). I'm not a fan of 'auto includes' and I believe every spell now has a place, and at least doesn't feel like you're gimping yourself by taking a different one.

 

Legion of blood and vyrkos are the stand out ones for me personally, I love all the abilities and combos, but all the legions seem very playable and mostly potentially very competitive, and (more importantly), very fun.

[Sception]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of reactions dumping on the soulblight mortarchs, but they actually both look very solid to me, as does Prince Vhordrai - yes he lost the ability to hero-phase attack with another monster, but quickblood for asf that lasts till your next hero phase on a monster hero that tough, that killy, and self healing, is almost a return to the old OP gristlegore days.  Regular VLoZD also benefits significantly from the new hunger rule, and has strong and useful buffs in each of the subfactions making them exciting in that there looks to be a bunch of ways to run them that are all strong in different and unique ways.  Belladamma Volga remains a very solid double caster for her points, radubeast is a solid beatstick with a good buff attached had hasn't lost a step once you remember that he has full access to Vyrkos subfaction abilities, including traits and artefacts.  The wight kings are both better, albeit more specialized.  Necromancer is worse, but still a solid support caster with bodyguard protection and access to some excellent debuffs from the lore.  Torgillius trades the bodyguard ability for a 5++ aura which is great.  The new hero's a silver bullet, but impressive in her particular specialty, which is surprising given that most foot heroes who try to specialize in monster hunting are just bad.  Lauka Vai is decent, especially when paired with a VLoZD.

The regular vamp lord doubled down on being a support hero instead of bringing back the unit-eating blender lords of fantasy that many have wanted since AoS's release - but that was never a realistic request since that's just not how foot heroes work in AoS.  It's not how they've worked since the game was released and it isn't how they work in any other faction.  And once you accept the vamp lord as a support hero, he's actually pretty solid - +1 attack that stacks with spells and command abilities is really good, actually!  Granted, it would be better if it weren't restricted to summonables, because right now there's really only a single unit in the army worth giving that buff to, and yeah that's a problem, especially as they're also the oldest kit left in the model range and they really don't hold up next to the new skeletons.  It's unfortunate that the vampire is as much a dedicated grave guard enhancer as the wight king is, that doesn't really fit the fluff, so yeah, improvements to be made, but if you are taking grave guard then the vamp lord is still very solid.

Blood knights lost their better retreat & charge, but hit much harder with +1 rend and 2" reach.  They're maybe a bit overpriced, but they're super playable.

Honestly, the soulblight heroes in general are very impressive, even if they're not all impressive in the same ways that they used to be.  And it's narratively fitting for the faction to have high end heroes and elites at the top with a hoard of suffering peasants at the bottom of the pyramid holding them up.  But even then, the peasants aren't terrible.  Black Knights aren't the medium cav I want them to be, but they are a cheap source of fire & forget mortal wounds that will get some damage in and die early as starting grist for endless legions.  Grave guard are extremely fragile glass cannons, but you've got deployment shenanigans, excellent screens, and healing abilities to get them into combat, and once there they suck up buffs like a sponge before hitting like a train.  Zombies are a cheap tar pit that clogs the table with friendly bodies and deals a bunch of free mortal wounds to any enemy units forced to take the time to clear them.  Skeletons are slightly more expensive targets that don't do any damage at all, but are significantly harder to clear thanks to their improved self-healing ability.  Dire wolves are excellent body blockers, very fast, and can get into combat with dedicated shooty units without provoking unleash hell thanks to their 6" pile in.  Fell bats are super cheap and super fast flying chaff, and now battleline in one of the factions for what is essentially a better version of the old 5 model wolf units.  Corpse carts can buff our casters and make zombies just that extra big more dangerous to clear out.

 

I don't like the big chariots (mortis engine might be ok with a points drop), or the unridden monsters, or the generic vengorian, or the vargheists.  But in a book this big there's going to be some duds, and even setting those aside the army has more than enough for multiple effective builds, including builds that make good use of a lot of the units that are getting dumped on in some of the community reactions.

 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

On the idea that Grave Guard are the only summonable unit worth buffing--I think a big block of 20-30 Deathrattle Skeletons will probably do a surprising amount of damage over the course of a game. They'll be lackluster turn to turn most of the time, but small bases mean a lot of attacks, and no one is going to want to waste All Out Defense against them if there's other combats. So they'll do consistent chip damage while being largely immune to the same. A Vampire Lord of Wight King can definitely speed that up when you run out of Grave Guard or something mucks up your positioning options.

Similarly, Black Knights may not have good attacks, but Crimson Feast gives them an extra 2 attacks a model, which lets them win chaff-on-chaff fights much more easily and thus sweep deck-chair-sitters off objectives or clear charge lanes for your bigger hitters.

Would I take a Vampire Lord just to buff those units? No. Would I expect to find situations over the course of an event where those are worthwhile uses of the ability? Quite possibly!

[JackStreicher]

13 minutes ago, Sception said:

they work in any other faction

You‘ve claimed this before, yet, for example we have the Megaboss, Assassins (Dark Elf and Skaven), the chaos Lord on Foot and the old WD update which made foot vamps more „blendy“. This debunks your claim. Apart from that is melee Assassin a simple role any hero could perform.

It‘s a simple design decision by GW to not add the option to turn a Vamp Lord into more of a blender. The reasons could be manifold: No new Model for clear destinction. The new Lead Designer didn’t know about the community’s wish when the book was written.

There‘s a lot we don’t know.

 

About the rest you write: I agree.

Edited April 10, 2023 by JackStreicher

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

Just now, JackStreicher said:

You‘ve claimed this before, yet, for example we have the Megaboss and the old WD update which made foot vamps more „blendy“. This debunks your claim. Apart from that is melee Assassin a simple role any hero could perform.

It‘s a simple design decision by GW to not add the option to turn a Vamp Lord into more of a blender. The reasons could be manifold: No new Model for clear destinction. The new Lead Designer didn’t know about the community’s wish when the book was written.

There‘s a lot we don’t know.

The Megaboss is a single model with very scarce company. There's that guy, Gotrek, and like...maybe a Skaven Clawlord or Arch Warlock with the right build? Potentially the Ogor Tyrant? Out of how many foot heroes? Having exceptions to a largely consistent design pattern doesn't unmake the pattern.

Furthermore, the WD update made foot vamps in a single subfaction do the same amount of damage as foot vamps do right now in that same faction. The foot vamp is already more blendy outside of LoB than it used to be.

[JackStreicher]

23 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Having exceptions to a largely consistent design pattern doesn't unmake the pattern.

Correct, but importantly, there are exceptions.

[TechnoVampire]

@RocketPropelledGrenade @MotherGoose I wish I could share you guys enthusiasm for the new book. I feel like I’ve expressed my gripes so won’t do so in detail again. There are so many subjective elements that it’s impossibly to please everyone, but I’m glad there seem to be many aspects that people are excited about. Hopefully I’ll come to share some of that enthusiasm with time. I wonder if maybe SBGL players are a bit too fair minded haha. I feel like a lot of other armies have some standout power combos/ mechanics and as long as they’re not game breaking that’s kind of ok. Broken auto picks obviously aren’t fun, but for me personally having a hard to deal with teleport ability, or a spell that allows you to provide a scary turn 1 threat isn’t overly problematic, and for me this book just feels a bit flat. The Mortarchs with locked in sub-faction abilities are a big miss for me, which is a real shame as I want access to lore of the deathmages (necro is an ok cheap option I’m aware, but his mobility is bad)… If I ran LOB I would definitely include neferata though. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

@TechnoVampire No need to apologize or feel bad for not liking something in a game. Your tastes are valid, and any pushback I've given has been an attempt to find a silver lining you would appreciate, not to suggest you are wrong! I hope you can get some joy out of it by putting it on the table and trying it out, and if not, I hope you find an alternative that works for you.

[Gery81]

20 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

The Mortarchs with locked in sub-faction abilities are a big miss for me, which is a real shame as I want access to lore of the deathmages (necro is an ok cheap option I’m aware, but his mobility is bad)… If I ran LOB I would definitely include neferata though. 

This to me is one of the best changes in the book. I always hated the idea of Mannfred leading LoB grave guard, or Kastelai blood knights, while the actual faction leaders not making the cut. Maybe I am just too much of a narrative minded player

[TechnoVampire]

24 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

@TechnoVampire No need to apologize or feel bad for not liking something in a game. Your tastes are valid, and any pushback I've given has been an attempt to find a silver lining you would appreciate, not to suggest you are wrong! I hope you can get some joy out of it by putting it on the table and trying it out, and if not, I hope you find an alternative that works for you.

Thanks yeah, I’m sure I will and I appreciate it as well, as it’s helpful to hear perspectives that challenge or differ from our own. The book is far from terrible, and like you say, I think with time I’ll find what works 😊

[TechnoVampire]

17 minutes ago, Gery81 said:

This to me is one of the best changes in the book. I always hated the idea of Mannfred leading LoB grave guard, or Kastelai blood knights, while the actual faction leaders not making the cut. Maybe I am just too much of a narrative minded player

Haha not at all, everyone’s approach is equally valid. There’s certain units I would just never include in an army because I can’t handle the aesthetics 🤓

[TechnoVampire]

2 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

On the idea that Grave Guard are the only summonable unit worth buffing--I think a big block of 20-30 Deathrattle Skeletons will probably do a surprising amount of damage over the course of a game. They'll be lackluster turn to turn most of the time, but small bases mean a lot of attacks, and no one is going to want to waste All Out Defense against them if there's other combats. So they'll do consistent chip damage while being largely immune to the same. A Vampire Lord of Wight King can definitely speed that up when you run out of Grave Guard or something mucks up your positioning options.

Similarly, Black Knights may not have good attacks, but Crimson Feast gives them an extra 2 attacks a model, which lets them win chaff-on-chaff fights much more easily and thus sweep deck-chair-sitters off objectives or clear charge lanes for your bigger hitters.

Would I take a Vampire Lord just to buff those units? No. Would I expect to find situations over the course of an event where those are worthwhile uses of the ability? Quite possibly!

Re deathrattle that was my thinking too. If you are including (what may well become quite a standard package of) GG/ vamp lord/ WK in your army then it makes a lot of sense to use deathrattle as chaf, because they can also benefit from those buffs in a pinch. Things never go perfectly to plan, so having a fall back is always nice. 

[TechnoVampire]

2 hours ago, Sception said:

Yeah, I've seen a lot of reactions dumping on the soulblight mortarchs, but they actually both look very solid to me, as does Prince Vhordrai - yes he lost the ability to hero-phase attack with another monster, but quickblood for asf that lasts till your next hero phase on a monster hero that tough, that killy, and self healing, is almost a return to the old OP gristlegore days.  Regular VLoZD also benefits significantly from the new hunger rule, and has strong and useful buffs in each of the subfactions making them exciting in that there looks to be a bunch of ways to run them that are all strong in different and unique ways.  Belladamma Volga remains a very solid double caster for her points, radubeast is a solid beatstick with a good buff attached had hasn't lost a step once you remember that he has full access to Vyrkos subfaction abilities, including traits and artefacts.  The wight kings are both better, albeit more specialized.  Necromancer is worse, but still a solid support caster with bodyguard protection and access to some excellent debuffs from the lore.  Torgillius trades the bodyguard ability for a 5++ aura which is great.  The new hero's a silver bullet, but impressive in her particular specialty, which is surprising given that most foot heroes who try to specialize in monster hunting are just bad.  Lauka Vai is decent, especially when paired with a VLoZD.

The regular vamp lord doubled down on being a support hero instead of bringing back the unit-eating blender lords of fantasy that many have wanted since AoS's release - but that was never a realistic request since that's just not how foot heroes work in AoS.  It's not how they've worked since the game was released and it isn't how they work in any other faction.  And once you accept the vamp lord as a support hero, he's actually pretty solid - +1 attack that stacks with spells and command abilities is really good, actually!  Granted, it would be better if it weren't restricted to summonables, because right now there's really only a single unit in the army worth giving that buff to, and yeah that's a problem, especially as they're also the oldest kit left in the model range and they really don't hold up next to the new skeletons.  It's unfortunate that the vampire is as much a dedicated grave guard enhancer as the wight king is, that doesn't really fit the fluff, so yeah, improvements to be made, but if you are taking grave guard then the vamp lord is still very solid.

Blood knights lost their better retreat & charge, but hit much harder with +1 rend and 2" reach.  They're maybe a bit overpriced, but they're super playable.

Honestly, the soulblight heroes in general are very impressive, even if they're not all impressive in the same ways that they used to be.  And it's narratively fitting for the faction to have high end heroes and elites at the top with a hoard of suffering peasants at the bottom of the pyramid holding them up.  But even then, the peasants aren't terrible.  Black Knights aren't the medium cav I want them to be, but they are a cheap source of fire & forget mortal wounds that will get some damage in and die early as starting grist for endless legions.  Grave guard are extremely fragile glass cannons, but you've got deployment shenanigans, excellent screens, and healing abilities to get them into combat, and once there they suck up buffs like a sponge before hitting like a train.  Zombies are a cheap tar pit that clogs the table with friendly bodies and deals a bunch of free mortal wounds to any enemy units forced to take the time to clear them.  Skeletons are slightly more expensive targets that don't do any damage at all, but are significantly harder to clear thanks to their improved self-healing ability.  Dire wolves are excellent body blockers, very fast, and can get into combat with dedicated shooty units without provoking unleash hell thanks to their 6" pile in.  Fell bats are super cheap and super fast flying chaff, and now battleline in one of the factions for what is essentially a better version of the old 5 model wolf units.  Corpse carts can buff our casters and make zombies just that extra big more dangerous to clear out.

 

I don't like the big chariots (mortis engine might be ok with a points drop), or the unridden monsters, or the generic vengorian, or the vargheists.  But in a book this big there's going to be some duds, and even setting those aside the army has more than enough for multiple effective builds, including builds that make good use of a lot of the units that are getting dumped on in some of the community reactions.

 

Aside from my distaste for the mortarchs and many other gripes, I find myself agreeing with the majority of this 😅

Edited April 10, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Tizianolol]

Guys can a VLoZD from LoN do new monstrous rampage from LoN ? Or its about  a ZD or Terrorghaist ?

[Leshoyadut]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys can a VLoZD from LoN do new monstrous rampage from LoN ? Or its about  a ZD or Terrorghaist ?

Any monster that can gain the Legion of Night tag can do it. So a VLOZD can, but, say, Neferata could not because she can't get Legion of Night.

[MotherGoose]

10 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

@RocketPropelledGrenade @MotherGoose I wish I could share you guys enthusiasm for the new book. I feel like I’ve expressed my gripes so won’t do so in detail again. There are so many subjective elements that it’s impossibly to please everyone, but I’m glad there seem to be many aspects that people are excited about. Hopefully I’ll come to share some of that enthusiasm with time. I wonder if maybe SBGL players are a bit too fair minded haha. I feel like a lot of other armies have some standout power combos/ mechanics and as long as they’re not game breaking that’s kind of ok. Broken auto picks obviously aren’t fun, but for me personally having a hard to deal with teleport ability, or a spell that allows you to provide a scary turn 1 threat isn’t overly problematic, and for me this book just feels a bit flat. The Mortarchs with locked in sub-faction abilities are a big miss for me, which is a real shame as I want access to lore of the deathmages (necro is an ok cheap option I’m aware, but his mobility is bad)… If I ran LOB I would definitely include neferata though. 

Like you say it's impossible to please everyone, and similarly to what others have said I've been mentioning things maybe as a silver lining for those that aren't happy with it - remember also rules will change again soon enough which may benefit us (ghb, 4.0? New tome again), and I definitely share your disappointment with how they've really pushed locking certain units/heroes into certain subfactions.

[Beliman]

5 minutes ago, MotherGoose said:

I definitely share your disappointment with how they've really pushed locking certain units/heroes into certain subfactions.

I think that's the same for all AoS factions. Appart from a few "gods" (Archaon, Nagash, etc...) every unique character is tied to his/her own subfaction.

Btw, you can still play with them using another subfaction.

[MotherGoose]

22 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I think that's the same for all AoS factions. Appart from a few "gods" (Archaon, Nagash, etc...) every unique character is tied to his/her own subfaction.

Btw, you can still play with them using another subfaction.

Yeah, however (I may be wrong) I believe this is the one of the first times (or at least the most numerous time) they've locked abilities behind the sub faction too - like gorslav can now return a summonable VYRKOS unit at half health, rather than any summonable unit, radukars 'command' that isn't a command anymore now only affects VYRKOS units, belladammas exploding 6s etc etc. It means whilst yes you CAN still use them in other factions, you're losing a massive amount of utility and sacrificing a hell of a lot compared to before.

Edited April 11, 2023 by MotherGoose

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, MotherGoose said:

Yeah, however (I may be wrong) I believe this is the one of the first times (or at least the most numerous time) they've locked abilities behind the sub faction too - like gorslav can now return a summonable VYRKOS unit at half health, rather than any summonable unit, radukars 'command' that isn't a command anymore now only affects VYRKOS units, belladammas exploding 6s etc etc. It means whilst yes you CAN still use them in other factions, you're losing a massive amount of utility and sacrificing a hell of a lot compared to before.

A lot of unique characters that have a subfaction keyword can only buff their own units (Brokk Grugnisson, Lyrior, Astreia, Gardus, Khorgos Khul, etc...). There are a few ones that can buff anyone, like Volturnos (Ionrach), Grinkrak (King's gitz) or Awlrach (Grieving Legion), but they are not that common and they usually are from old 3.0 books.

[TechnoVampire]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

A lot of unique characters that have a subfaction keyword can only buff their own units (Brokk Grugnisson, Lyrior, Astreia, Gardus, Khorgos Khul, etc...). There are a few ones that can buff anyone, like Volturnos (Ionrach), Grinkrak (King's gitz) or Awlrach (Grieving Legion), but they are not that common and they usually are from old 3.0 books.

I think the issue with this book is that we have A LOT of unique characters and attaching them all to sub factions to me feels very restrictive. It’s pretty common and logical to make sub-faction specific characters more aligned with that sub faction, but many of the characters in this book have multiple abilities as well as spells locked into those factions, and you would have to be kind of desperate to play them out with… neferata for example has two abilities and a spell all locked into LOB. For me it would have made a lot more sense to make some of those spells or abilities attached to units thematically associated with the sub faction instead, or just not attached at all. I feel like one spell/ ability is enough, still giving you freedom to move elsewhere, but making them more potent in their aligned sub-faction. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[MotherGoose]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

A lot of unique characters that have a subfaction keyword can only buff their own units (Brokk Grugnisson, Lyrior, Astreia, Gardus, Khorgos Khul, etc...). There are a few ones that can buff anyone, like Volturnos (Ionrach), Grinkrak (King's gitz) or Awlrach (Grieving Legion), but they are not that common and they usually are from old 3.0 books.

That makes it feel a little less annoying, but bonereapers who come out at the same time as us have special characters with subfaction keywords who can buff everyone and don't have locked abilities.

[MotherGoose]

7 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

I think the issue with this book is that we have A LOT of unique characters and locking them all into sub factions to me feels very restrictive. It’s pretty common and logical to make sub-faction specific characters more aligned with that sub faction, but many of the characters in this book have multiple abilities as well as spells locked into those factions, and you would have to be kind of desperate to play them out with… neferata for example has two abilities and a spell all locked into LOB. For me it would have made a lot more sense to make some of those spells or abilities attached to units thematically associated with the sub faction instead, or just not attached at all. I feel like one spell/ ability is enough, still giving you freedom to move elsewhere, but making them more potent in their aligned sub-faction. 

The little heroes are stand out ones for me - torgillius and gorslav being utterly unusable outside of vyrkos and jumped from 80 to 120 points.

Edited April 11, 2023 by MotherGoose

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, MotherGoose said:

That makes it feel a little less annoying, but bonereapers who come out at the same time as us have special characters with subfaction keywords who can buff everyone and don't have locked abilities.

But Bonereapers also have 19 warscrolls, not 47.

[MotherGoose]

14 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

But Bonereapers also have 19 warscrolls, not 47.

I'm not really sure that should come into it - khorne have korghus who is good outside of goretide and has just the single locked ability, plenty of unique characters that don't have locked abilities or factions and have 40+ warscrolls as well as (not)endless spells. I don't think a faction should be punished for having variety.

Neferata loses her spell on other units (which is incredible), her -1 to hit bubble other than herself and can't redeploy other units if she isn't in her subfaction, she only keeps the hunger and slaying a hero on 5+, that is a drastic difference to the point I'd argue she's almost unusable outside of her faction (as are a lot of the others).

In comparison, korghus loses a once per battle ability, which isn't even entirely lost if you include some units also locked into his subfaction.

Edited April 11, 2023 by MotherGoose