NinthMusketeer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 So anyone else get a giggle at the recent metawatch article claiming Slaanesh became middle-tier by the end of 2019? Cuz dam, certainly would have been news to all those triple keeper lists crushing LVO 2020. Who won that again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said: So anyone else get a giggle at the recent metawatch article claiming Slaanesh became middle-tier by the end of 2019? Cuz dam, certainly would have been news to all those triple keeper lists crushing LVO 2020. Who won that again? I found it interesting that the whole article didn't even mention depravity. Which might be a bonus as it might mean GW didn't want to "remind" us about it because its going away/changing/becoming less critical in the new tome. Certainly it was odd to read a tactical discussion without any depravity mention nor even the comment on multiple keeper lists at all. Heck their slaanesh list was almost half chaos warriors. They seemed to latch onto the glass-cannon aspect and then double down on the solution being chaos warriors. In itself its not a bad idea, its just more of a mid to low range tactical discussion than top competitive level one. Though that, again, seeds well for the new book where I expect the new slaanesh mortals are going to fit the very same/similar slot as chaos warriors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/20/2021 at 1:40 AM, stratigo said: So, not a fan of any game that gets a double turn then? Not really, unless..... I play my 320Clanrat list. pretty fun, especially against those Waac Players you guys mentioned. The last guy who wanted to win, just gave up, after he was unable to kill me of at the end of his turn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 It was interesting because they went out of their way to make casual non-optimized list examples... in an article called "METAwatch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Just now, Skreech Verminking said: Not really, unless..... I play my 320Clanrat list. pretty fun, especially against those Waac Players you guys mentioned. The last guy who wanted to win, just gave up, after he was unable to kill me of at the end of his turn 2 Lol he tried to kill the clanrats didn't he. Rule #1 of fighting Skaven: they want you to kill the clanrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said: Lol he tried to kill the clanrats didn't he. Rule #1 of fighting Skaven: they want you to kill the clanrats. Actually it is the other way. A skavenplayer, usually wants you to think that his clanrats are the protective meathsields, of the army, since he will more them often put them in front of what seems to be a better unit, which often results in the opponent thinking that the clanrats are just meant to die. But that is basically what we want you guys to think, afterall a skavenplayer wins his match not by killpoints, but by this one cheeky little ***** clanrat sitting on that one objective, he didn’t care in keeping secured. truthfully the clanrat is actually the best and only unit, the true rat players consider, worth keeping alive, by tricking players in thinking otherwise. In my case, I just had so many that there wasn’t much he could shoot at, then clanrats Edited January 21, 2021 by Skreech Verminking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 You must have a much nicer matched play meta than mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sance Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Regardless of the meta thingy, shout out to Vince and Tom who are featuring in this article, they have the best AoS weekly podcast. Watching Vince's hobby cheating video got me to be interested on Age of Sigmar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 16 hours ago, Overread said: I found it interesting that the whole article didn't even mention depravity. Which might be a bonus as it might mean GW didn't want to "remind" us about it because its going away/changing/becoming less critical in the new tome. Certainly it was odd to read a tactical discussion without any depravity mention nor even the comment on multiple keeper lists at all. Heck their slaanesh list was almost half chaos warriors. They seemed to latch onto the glass-cannon aspect and then double down on the solution being chaos warriors. In itself its not a bad idea, its just more of a mid to low range tactical discussion than top competitive level one. Though that, again, seeds well for the new book where I expect the new slaanesh mortals are going to fit the very same/similar slot as chaos warriors. The nerf to depravity actually required HoS to make changes to their build. I myself did some experimenting including Chaos Warriors, because the army could no long simply expend it's 2000 points of models killing the enemy and then or even go the mutual assured destruction method followed by summoning objective scoring. Ultimately I didn't go with CW, and went extreme chaff. But the first winter faq for HoS pretty nicely hammered them down to somewhere between B and A tier which is more than sufficient to win events with in 19/20 season such as it was. It did completely change the playstyle however. I think the primary problem talking about HoS productivity is that regardless of how strong the KoS and allegiance abilities were, pretty much every other Warscroll was trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 It didn't, because the White Dwarf Syll'Esque host exists and doubles depravity generation within 12" of them. I was literally there watching it happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, whispersofblood said: I think the primary problem talking about HoS productivity is that regardless of how strong the KoS and allegiance abilities were, pretty much every other Warscroll was trash. I wouldn't say trash - not good either, but better than BoC, S2D (sans marauders), and other weak armies. They were uninspiring and rarely did anything to 'wow' when using them; daemonettes, for example, have a very sparse warscroll - nothing interesting going on combo-wise with the rest of the army either. Slaanesh has two threads on this forum, both about 90 pages; one is for battletome-less Slaanesh and one for battletome Slaanesh; even though it's very likely Slaanesh became more popular after its first release, there's little discussion on the new thread rules-wise because there's very little going on with the battletome. There's not much ability to discuss buffs or different lists when there's one clear best list, or when the other warscrolls aren't interesting. This became a bit ranty - sorry! But to go back to powercreep, I feel powercreep is less important than quality and the most important thing is books increase in quality (e.g. variety of lists that are 'good', interactivity of allegiance abilities, combos available, rules that feel rewarding to use); I'm not sure if this has been the case, but I've not played every army. At the end of the day, everything gets a balance (something something Winter FAQ), but not everything starts with interesting rules. I think GW's main priority should be making high quality rules that are still fun after power has been adjusted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 12 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said: You must have a much nicer matched play meta than mine. Both groups exist in my area. And I tend to play both sides, although more equally chanced winning conditions in the more casual side of the game, and absurdly never seen lists, in the more competitive or waac groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feii Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 On 12/27/2020 at 4:41 AM, Kurrilino said: Yeah right.............. StD are one of the newest armies and they are bootom feeder without hope. So much for power creep bad news: you are wrong great news: StD are one of the strongest armies rn 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Feii said: bad news: you are wrong great news: StD are one of the strongest armies rn That's a bit misleading. Are S2D good in a way that a person very familiar with the lore would expect? No. Can a competitive player make great builds? Emphatically yes. Edited January 22, 2021 by whispersofblood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) If something is new and OP it gets used frequently and is easily noticed. If something is new and UP it barely gets used and easily goes unnoticed. The result is many people only see OP new releases, not realizing all the new releases they AREN'T seeing. When one actually goes through releases and re-releases it is clear there is no correlation between new stuff being particularly better. There is simply an average power creep over time, something that happens in new releases and existing content (via point updates) simultaneously. Edited January 23, 2021 by NinthMusketeer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 hours ago, whispersofblood said: That's a bit misleading. Are S2D good in a way that a person very familiar with the lore would expect? No. Can a competitive player make great builds? Emphatically yes. I think you are misspelling "marauders". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukishiro1 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 There's a couple good units in STD, not just marauders. But the internal balance is definitely not the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Oh absolutely there's plenty of resources for StDs to draw on, I'm just cracking a joke over how comedically OP the marauder warscroll is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feii Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 16 hours ago, whispersofblood said: That's a bit misleading. Are S2D good in a way that a person very familiar with the lore would expect? No. Can a competitive player make great builds? Emphatically yes. if we are talking about marauders I believe that even after their nerf S2D will be a good army. (talking about the base size difference and dmg output is for another time perhaps) Lorewise Archaon is a beast clapping cheeks left and right and the same on the tabletop. That's almost 1/2 of your army. when the marauders get nerfed and if the S2D get another update in the broken realms (especially batallion warscroll update) they can yet again be a top tier pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 6 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said: Oh absolutely there's plenty of resources for StDs to draw on, I'm just cracking a joke over how comedically OP the marauder warscroll is. Meh Marauders are probably fine tbh, the rest of the infantry in the book are just laughable in comparison. Mostly because 2 wound infantry are generically bad at the game, but the S2D ones are particularly bad. Marauders are actually just a good combat infantry unit. Now that S2D have a native teleport spell is actually more problematic from a balance perspective. But I think Marauders add something good and interesting to the game overall. 20 minutes ago, Feii said: if we are talking about marauders I believe that even after their nerf S2D will be a good army. (talking about the base size difference and dmg output is for another time perhaps) Lorewise Archaon is a beast clapping cheeks left and right and the same on the tabletop. That's almost 1/2 of your army. when the marauders get nerfed and if the S2D get another update in the broken realms (especially batallion warscroll update) they can yet again be a top tier pick. No not really. There are a lot of builds that a S2D fanperson wouldn't naturally extract. But Knights of the Empty throne are strong, Cultists are strong in a different way from say Hallowheart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthMusketeer Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Nothing wrong with the likes of Chaos Warriors, they are just a unit which looks like a blunt instrument but actually has a bit of a learning curve. A skilled StD player can do some horrible things to people using nothing more than Warriors + support. Will it get crushed by an optimised tourney list? Yes. There is a term for that; reasonably balanced. As for marauders not being OP, I don't know how to begin to approach that. Will have to agree to disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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