The CoS Proxy thread

[soots]

With a lot of units canned from the old City lists,  it seems like we need opinions on what is personally accepted as proxies. Simple yes or no is good(accepted). Tourny perspective would be good too. perfectly fine to give an opinion of no to everything.

 

 Phoenix guard

1. Swordmasters. (0/3 Votes)

2. White Lions (2/3 Votes) (2 maybes)

 

Shadow Warriors

1. Glade guard (3/3 Votes)

2. High Elf Archers  (1/3 Votes)

3. Waywatchers  (2/2 Votes)

3. Empire Huntsmen (3/3 Votes)

 

Longbeards

1. Dwarf warriors  (3/3 Votes)

2. Dwarf Miners  (3/3 Votes)

 

Hammerers

1. Dwarf Warrior with 2 hander.  (2/2 Votes)

 

Crossbowmen

1. Dwarf Quarrelers  (3/3 Votes)

2. Empire/Brettonian Archers  (1.5/3 Votes)

3. High elf Archers (1/1 Votes)

 

Handgunners

1. Dwarf Thunderers  (2.5/3 Votes)

 

Dreadspears

1. Louthern Seaguard (2.5/3 Votes)

2. HE spearm elves  (2.5/3 Votes)

 

Wildwood rangers

1. White Lions  (3/3 Votes)

2. Wardancers  (3/3 Votes)

 

Corsairs

1. Freecompany  (2/3 Votes)

 

Luminark/hurricanum

1. War Altar  (3/3 Votes)

2. Anvil  (3/3 Votes)

 

DreadLord on Black Dragon

1. Dragonlord high elf  (2/2 Votes)

 

Sorcereress on Black Dragon

1. Arch mage HE Dragon  (2/2 Votes)

 

Drakespawn Knights

1. Dragon Princes (1/1 Votes)

 

BattleMage

1. Loremaster (1/1 Votes)

2. Archmage (1/1 Votes)

 

Nomad Prince

1. HE nobles (1/1 Votes)

 

FreeGuild General

1. HE nobles (1/1 Votes)

 

Sisters of Watch

1. Glade Guard (1/1 Votes)

 

Please add for more acceptable or arguable/recommended options and ill update.

 

Edit: edited 3/12/2019

Edited December 3, 2019 by soots

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, soots said:

With a lot of units canned from the old City lists,  it seems like we need opinions on what is personally accepted as proxies. Simple yes or no is good(accepted). Tourny perspective would be good too. perfectly fine to give an opinion of no to everything.

 

 Phoenix guard

1. Swordmasters Not without conversion (there are multiple greatsword units)

2. White Lions Yes (There are no axe units, and that's close enough to a halberd)

 

Shadow Warriors

1. Glade guard Yes

2. High Elf Archers Yes

3. Waywatchers Yes

3. Empire Huntsmen YES (I want them)

 

Longbeards

1. Dwarf warriors Yes (with shield)

2. Dwarf Miners Yes (great weapon)

 

Crossbowmen

1. Dwarf Quarrelers Yes

2. Empire/Brettonian Archers Not without conversion (to give them a crossbow)

 

Handgunners

1. Dwarf Thunderers Yes

 

Dreadspears

1. Louthern Seaguard Yes

2. HE spearm elves Yes

 

Wildwood rangers

1. White Lions Yes

2. Wardancers Yes

 

Corsairs

1. Freecompany Yes

 

Luminark/hurricanum

1. War Altar Yes (but do give it something that is distinct for either choice)

2. Anvil Yes (but do give it something that is distinct for either choice)

 

Please add for more acceptable or arguable/recommended options and ill update.

Perhaps it is best to describe what we want to see in the most popular units to make them distinct, and then add options to that.

I use the following conversion guidelines for armour

- light clothes, unarmoured

6+ Bits of armour, heavy clothes

5+ Breastplate to demicuirass, haubergeon (basically chain t-shirt)

4+ Demicuirass to full plate armour, hauberk (chain longsleeve to at least mid thigh)

If not explicit in the warscroll, shield gives a +1 save, and highly skilled persons (for instance heroes) can also give a +1 save

I have not found any rhyme or reason to weapons, except a very general "two handed sometimes have more rend than one handed, lances do something extra with charge, spears have reach".

Freeguild:

• Demigryph Knights: Monstrous mount, heavy armour, either lance or halberd, elite appearance
• Greatswords: Two handed swords, elite appearance, demicuirass at least, Distinct from other units with great swords in your army
• Crossbowmen: A crossbow, lightly armoured
• Handgunners: A handgun, lightly armoured
• Guard: medium armour
  • Sword-shield: Hand weapon, shield
  • Halberd: two handed heavy weapon (warscroll does not have reach, though they are longer than spears)
  • Spear: Long poking stick
• Pistoleers: Two pistols, a sword, breastplate, mounted on something reasonably fast
• Outriders: Repeater gun, breastplate (cloak), mounted on something reasonably fast
• General: Leader, greatsword, demicuirass (note that the current General fails the first criterium)
• General on Griffin: Well armoured leader, Winged beast of similar size, very fancy helmet.

Others about which I have an opinion

• Dark Riders: Fast mount, lance, ranged weapon, armoured to 4+
• Shadow Warriors: Bow, hand weapon, camouflaged, medium armour
• Phoenix guard: Elite, heavily armoured, has halberd, has phoenix regalia (flames and/or wings imagery)
• Sisters of the Watch: Magical bow, medium armour
• Sisters of the Thorn: Riding forest animal, magical spears
• Nomad Prince: Has horns, has pet bird
• Knight Incantor: Bigger than humans. Heavily armoured, has sword, is magician
• Knight Azyros: Bigger than humans. Airborne, has sword, has lantern, preferably has wings

 

I can't believe I did not link this:

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/09/no-substitute-discontinued-units-in.html (humans and dwarves)

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/09/no-substitute-discontinued-units-in_26.html (elves)

Edited November 29, 2019 by zilberfrid

[prochuvi]

Also

 

Dreadlord on black dragon:

1-dragonlord of high elf:yes

Sorceres on black dragon:

1-arch mague on black dragon

Hammerers:

Dwarf warriors with two hand axe:yes

 

Those i dont see problem but it is posible a dragonlord as a phoenyx?

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by prochuvi

[dekay]

I've been wondering if anyone's linked @Double Misfire's articles yet. They're pretty much as comprehensive as it gets.

As for the original post: Green is yes, red is no, yellow is 'conditions apply' ; )

Phoenix guard

1. Swordmasters -No. They are obviously executioners, or even greatswords ; )

2. White Lions - eeh.. borderline. They are perfect wildwood rangers and passable executioners too.

 

Shadow Warriors

1. Glade guard - perfect match.

2. High Elf Archers - my first thought would be darkshards, so no. They're basic, shooty elves  and should be used as basic shooty elves. And they don't look sneaky.

3. Waywatchers - perfect.

3. Empire Huntsmen - no problem, especially in human themed force.

 

Longbeards

1. Dwarf warriors -yup, no problem. They'd work as freeguild guard in dwarf themed army too.

2. Dwarf Miners - No problems here.

 

Crossbowmen

1. Dwarf Quarrelers - yup, no problem. But I could accept them as irondrakes, too, as long as it's consistent through the army.

2. Empire/Brettonian Archers - again, as long as it's consistent, preferrably in no crossbow on any models in the army to represent more low-tech city. But yes.

 

Handgunners

1. Dwarf Thunderers - I'd assume they're irondrakes at first sight, unless there are actual irondrakes on the table too. If there are, then all's fine.

 

Dreadspears

1. Louthern Seaguard - No problem.

2. HE spearm elves - They're basically the same unit, no reason to complain.

 

Wildwood rangers

1. White Lions -I'd accept them as executioners, too. No problems here.

2. Wardancers - no problems here.

 

Corsairs

1. Freecompany - could work. But I'd probably just mix free company with sword guard. If you're avoiding any elf models in your army, i agree these would be your best choice.

 

Luminark/hurricanum

1. War Altar - it's basically the same kit. 

2. Anvil - Especially the old one, on wheels. Newer version too, but it could use some conversion to increase its mobility. Put it on floating platform or something ; )

[Sidewinder]

My two biggest gripes in proxying HE units are the Lothern Seaguard and Archers.

Archers are not "that" hard, I say they are obvious candidates for Crossbowmen or Darkshards, but it bothers me that there are no bow units for humans.

The Seaguards on the other hand is the one that really bothers me, the unit is iconic in having Spear, Shield and Bow, and there seems to be nothing matching that. They can be elite spearmen ( Eternal Guard ) or regular spearmen (Dreadspears), but the missing shooting is annoying. They can be any shooty unit but then the melee is terrible compared to what the model looks like.

 

For the original post. I added a few that I think work (Mostly focused on HE, here are my own post on the proxy theme https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/24553-high-elves-of-hammerhal/😞

 Phoenix guard

1. Swordmasters. No, they are Executioners or Greatswords

2. White Lions Maybe, but other stuff fits better

 

Shadow Warriors

1. Glade guard

2. High Elf Archers No, they don't have enough melee for that

3. Waywatchers 

3. Empire Huntsmen

 

Longbeards

1. Dwarf warriors 

2. Dwarf Miners

 

Hammerers

1. Dwarf Warrior with 2 hander. 

 

Crossbowmen

1. Dwarf Quarrelers

2. Empire/Brettonian Archers

3. High Elf Archers Since there are no archers

 

Handgunners

1. Dwarf Thunderers

 

Dreadspears

1. Louthern Seaguard I miss the shooting, but in a pinch...

2. HE spearmen 

Eternal Guard

1. Louthern Seaguard I miss the shooting, but in a pinch...

2. HE spearmen Not elite enough, but in a pinch

Wildwood rangers

1. White Lions

2. Wardancers

 

Corsairs

1. Freecompany feels more like freeguild guard

 

Luminark/hurricanum

1. War Altar

2. Anvil

 

DreadLord on Black Dragon

1. Dragonlord high elf

 

Sorcereress on Black Dragon

1. Arch mage HE Dragon 

 

Freeguild General on Griffon

1. Highwarden With a larger scenic base

 

Drakespawn Knight

1. Dragon Princes

 

Demigryph knights

1. Dragon Princes

2. Converted HE lion riders

 

Outriders

1. Ellyrian reavers since there are no mounted archers

 

Battlemage

1. Loremaster

2. Archmage

Nomad Prince

1. Any old HE Noble with suitable weapon

Freeguild General

1. Any old HE Noble with suitable weapon

 

[amsoly]

Currently running glade guard as sisters of the watch (nomad prince general for battle line). Thinking I’ll just try to paint the bows to “look magical” (how TBD...maybe attempt OSL to make the arrows “shine” blue fire onto a white bow or something I dunno never messed before..and I have 40 of them)

[Fiat Goose]

Thanks for this list.  

What if you're an insane person who wants to convert freeguild spearmen into eternal guard (in an army featuring lots of freeguild guard)? 

Would you need to heavily modify them to give the appearance of another distinct battlefield entity?  Would you not even bother?

[Thiagoma]

20 minutes ago, Fiat Goose said:

Thanks for this list.  

What if you're an insane person who wants to convert freeguild spearmen into eternal guard (in an army featuring lots of freeguild guard)? 

Would you need to heavily modify them to give the appearance of another distinct battlefield entity?  Would you not even bother?

Using elven helmets would be the best call. Shadow Warrior ones should ve easy to find on bit stores.

[zilberfrid]

56 minutes ago, Fiat Goose said:

Thanks for this list.  

What if you're an insane person who wants to convert freeguild spearmen into eternal guard (in an army featuring lots of freeguild guard)? 

Would you need to heavily modify them to give the appearance of another distinct battlefield entity?  Would you not even bother?

They need to be distinct from Freeguild Spearmen first, and then look more elite and wood elfy.

I'd change the heads and give them wood elf shields. I'd also give them all a cloak.

Edited December 2, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Sidewinder]

1 hour ago, Fiat Goose said:

Thanks for this list.  

What if you're an insane person who wants to convert freeguild spearmen into eternal guard (in an army featuring lots of freeguild guard)? 

Would you need to heavily modify them to give the appearance of another distinct battlefield entity?  Would you not even bother?

First of all,  what you want to achieve?  Why do you want them to be another spearman unit when the model you want to use already represents a spearman unit?

Do you want a more elite unit? Then you need to make them look more elite! Not necessarily by making them look like elves but something enough to make them distinct.

If you want Eternal Guards that look like humans there is always the option to put human heads on EG instead? Unless you happen to have lots of FGG already around 🙂

[Myrdin]

Adding cloaks to miniatures: +1 to elitness
At one point in time I had been adding cloaks and half cloaks to pretty much anything lol. Even for my 40K Tau. Pathfinders got fully body cloaks with capes (hand crafted from greenstuff), firewariors got only half cloaks covering only part of the model >< 

Heck I even got one Beastmen Gor Hornblower who got a cloak and a strap of cloth over his face, and it doesnt look as horrible as one might think ^^

Anyway > different shields, and cloaks will go a long way. If you dont want to break away from the human aesthetics, just use different human heads. you can find some interesting one also in the old Bretonian kits. Though admittedly armored human head aint exactly a scarce thing to find. Bunch of nice looking ones from other companies as well (for example crusaders heads ). 

If you really want to go fancy pants you can snip the tip of the spears as well and replace them with.... well... more fancy looking ones ! (duh)  

Though I would cautions on how you do that, and choose your material carefully. Ideally you want plastic on plastic action using plastic meld type of glue to avoid them breaking off in the future as much as possible.

[zilberfrid]

Because GW did not make a lot of females in the past (and Order human females have never been a big thing), and new sets for CoS seem far beyond the horizon, I see a few possibilities for the "soldier, but female" look.

• Frostgrave Soldiers 2 (diverse equipment, lightly armoured/heavy clothing)
• Frostgrave Wizards 2 (very diverse equipment, lots of extra stuff, heavy clothing)
• Shieldwolf Shieldmaiden Infantry/Ranger (clad in mail, hand weapon and shield or crossbow)
• Shieldwolf Sisters of Talliareum (heavily armoured, shields, hand weapons)

There are also quite a few female heroes from the Shieldwolf that are worth considering, but let's start with this.

The following is about the bodies, not the equipment:

• Soldiers 2
  • Freeguild Crossbowmen (with crossbows)/ Handgunners (if you give them handguns)
  • Shadow Warriors (bow and sword)
  • Corsairs (two weapons or crossbow and hand weapon)
  • Sisters of the Watch (with magic bows, but not that neccessary)
• Wizards 2
  • Sorceress
  • Battlemage
  • Nomad Prince(ss) with added horns
• Shieldmaidens
  • Freeguild Guard
  • Dreadspears/bleakswords/darkshards (with proper equipment, and distinguishable from above, for instance by cloaks)
  • Eternal guard (with cloaks, spears and shields)
  • Wildwood rangers (with proper equipment)
• Sisters
  • Greatswords (and thus Freeguild General)
  • Phoenix guard
  • Black guard
  • Executioners

They are not good fits for Dwarves, and I have not found a good set of dwarven minis for a nice price. The Scrobor minis look good, but they are quite expensive. I think, at the moment, settling for D&D quality minis or getting the Scribor ones is the best pick.

[Thiagoma]

18 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

There are also quite a few female heroes from the Shieldwolf that are worth considering, but let's start with this.

Do they use the same scale or are smaller?

[zilberfrid]

Shieldwolf is 32, which matches Greatswords. Frostgrave is 28, which matches mid '90s GW (a bit taller then my bret archers of that era

[Myrdin]

I use Frostgrave gnolls as Beastmen Ungors. For units that require lot of models FG kits are perfect point per buck deal. 

They are nowhere near the level of detail of most major miniature manufacturers but they are not horrible, and with the right paintjob can do just well on the table for half the price you would pay in GW goods

(Box of 20 gnolls, with plenty of left over bits to fit out another whole unit came up to some 22$. I bought 3 of those boxes and am considering more, thats how good of a deal it is. The FG humans, both male and female are also pretty good looking sculpts and have a different flavor to the typical Empire/HE aesthetics)

Edited December 12, 2019 by Myrdin

[zilberfrid]

15 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

I use Frostgrave gnolls as Beastmen Ungors. For units that require lot of models FG kits are perfect point per buck deal. 

They are nowhere near the level of detail of most major miniature manufacturers but they are not horrible, and with the right paintjob can do just well on the table for half the price you would pay in GW goods

(Box of 20 gnolls, with plenty of left over bits to fit out another whole unit came up to some 22$. I bought 3 of those boxes and am considering more, thats how good of a deal it is. The FG humans, both male and female are also pretty good looking sculpts and have a different flavor to the typical Empire/HE aesthetics)

I would also advise you to look at Oathmark, same designers, same scale, but a little less frosty.

The only reason I was eyeing Shieldwolf (their detailing is not as deep) is because Frostgrave/Oathmark does not have female soldiers in armour. I already have a lot of GW males, so I don't need to add more males to my collection.

[Myrdin]

Just now, zilberfrid said:

I would also advise you to look at Oathmark, same designers, same scale, but a little less frosty.

The only reason I was eyeing Shieldwolf (their detailing is not as deep) is because Frostgrave/Oathmark does not have female soldiers in armour. I already have a lot of GW males, so I don't need to add more males to my collection.

Now this might be a long shot, but I believe it might be worthwhile taking a look at Privateers Press games Warmachine/Hordes.

They have several human factions, of which there are plenty nice looking female models to choose from < especially their characters like the Warcasters.

I myself, due to my love for all that is drunk, covered in fur and horny (....as in "has horns on its head" .... though granted the first meaning also applies...  Baaaaah!  *insert random goat noises*), got bunch of different Cryx Satyxis to use as my warband for Frostgrave, simply because I like the idea of horned humans, and crafted a whole lore background explaining why my warband is that way. But I digress. In short: You might wanna check out some Warmachine/Hordes stuff, might be something useful in there for you (be warned though, their miniatures are 95% metal if that bothers you).

[zilberfrid]

53 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Now this might be a long shot, but I believe it might be worthwhile taking a look at Privateers Press games Warmachine/Hordes.

They have several human factions, of which there are plenty nice looking female models to choose from < especially their characters like the Warcasters.

I myself, due to my love for all that is drunk, covered in fur and horny (....as in "has horns on its head" .... though granted the first meaning also applies...  Baaaaah!  *insert random goat noises*), got bunch of different Cryx Satyxis to use as my warband for Frostgrave, simply because I like the idea of horned humans, and crafted a whole lore background explaining why my warband is that way. But I digress. In short: You might wanna check out some Warmachine/Hordes stuff, might be something useful in there for you (be warned though, their miniatures are 95% metal if that bothers you).

Thanks! I will check them out.

Though yes, metal does bother me a bit, I'd rather add Tsaangor horns to my humans than deal with metal-plastic bonding.

[Fulcanelli]

Hello everyone,
If I wanted to proxy a Runelord, in order to have a "total human" army, what should I use? (GW or other brands, although I prefer plastic).

Edited December 12, 2019 by Fulcanelli

[zilberfrid]

26 minutes ago, Fulcanelli said:

Hello everyone,
If I wanted to proxy a Runelord, in order to have a "total human" army, what should I use? (GW or other brands, although I prefer plastic).

If we stay with GW and recently in production, I'd go for an Excelsior Warpriest.

Book, hammer, similar pose.

[Fulcanelli]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

If we stay with GW and recently in production, I'd go for an Excelsior Warpriest.

Book, hammer, similar pose.

Yeah, a good catch indeed. My only complain is that he might be a little bigger/bulky than a regular human, but probably it doesn't matter.

[Myrdin]

In that case I would suggest fishing the internet for the ever so amazing Warrior Priest of Sigmar

There is only few more iconic miniatures as this mighty warrior, that ooze the Warhammer Aesthetics (same with the even more Iconic Witch Hunter.... both miniatures oddly and incomprehensibly removed just before the release of CoS Battletome...)

[Thiagoma]

18 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Shieldwolf is 32, which matches Greatswords. Frostgrave is 28, which matches mid '90s GW (a bit taller then my bret archers of that era

I loved the Girls with crossobws for darkshards

[Fulcanelli]

15 hours ago, Myrdin said:

In that case I would suggest fishing the internet for the ever so amazing Warrior Priest of Sigmar

There is only few more iconic miniatures as this mighty warrior, that ooze the Warhammer Aesthetics (same with the even more Iconic Witch Hunter.... both miniatures oddly and incomprehensibly removed just before the release of CoS Battletome...)

I think I will go for the Warrior Priest! What a nostalgia trigger... (I'm aware of the great squat, I hope one day we will see Warrior Priest and Witch Hunter resculpted. A man can dream.)

[zilberfrid]

57 minutes ago, Fulcanelli said:

I think I will go for the Warrior Priest! What a nostalgia trigger... (I'm aware of the great squat, I hope one day we will see Warrior Priest and Witch Hunter resculpted. A man can dream.)

They were available quite recently, so there are bound to be a few floating about.