AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

6 minutes ago, Lustim said:

Guys i bought 2 feast of bones boxes.

2 tyrants(1 i would  convert into either butcher or hunter)

12 glutons

2 ironblasters 

4 leadbeltchers.

Could someone help me build a 2k army out of this. So i know what to buy next.

Vs a more traditional SC box Feast of Bones a bit of a tough spot to start out with.  Simply put, you’re going to need some Ironguts and yes, converting one of the Tyrants to a Butcher a good choice.  But focusing on what you have you might as well start with the Tyrant’s Gutguard Battalion.

Tyrant (160)

4x Ironguts (220)

Ironblaster (120)

Ironblaster (120)

Battalion (120)

Definitely not my favorite battalion but only requires you to buy 1 unit you don’t already have and gets you to 740 pts.  

Next you could try Butcher’s Band Battalion:

Butcher (converted) (140)

4x Ironguts (220)

4x Leadbelchers (160) 

12x Gluttons (400)

Battalion (140 pts)

So for the price of another box of Ironguts you’ve added 1060 more pts taking your army to 1800 if my mental math is accurate.  Another butcher and an Endless spell and you can call it a day with all your battle line requirements taken care of.  If I’m reading Website right you’ll be out ~$120 more.

Not per se a top of the line list but takes advantage of everything you already have and is only three drops so depending on your local meta you could be fine to get started (and Gutbusters absolutely great to learn with).  After a few games you’ll have a much better idea of what you want and with only a limited amount invested (and eBay to resell on) you have minimal opportunity cost to going a new direction.

The other low cost alternative (and ignoring drops and Battalions for a moment is to buy the BCR SC box to add to what you have.  Build as a Frostlord on Stonehorn.  That will add 680 pts to your existing 1360.  (Again all mental math at moment so apologies if off anywhere.). So drop 2x leadbelchers or 3x gluttons and tweak from there.  This will give you some flavor of both sides, again at minimal cost.  Play a few games and tweak as needed.

But Ironguts probably your safest next purchase either way.

[Kramer]

57 minutes ago, Lustim said:

Guys i bought 2 feast of bones boxes.

2 tyrants(1 i would  convert into either butcher or hunter)

12 glutons

2 ironblasters 

4 leadbeltchers.

Could someone help me build a 2k army out of this. So i know what to buy next.

If possible more than one build so i can decide on what i like.

Ps:also bought the mawpot.

 

Thanks in advanced

 

Solid advice from @Beer & Pretzels Gamer. My alternative tip would be to go underguts for a fun to play list. Get another feast of bone halve and build 10 leadbelchers. (With 12 gluttons that leaves you 2 bodies which are easier to convert to butchers) That would give you: tyrant, converted butcher, 3x ironblasters, 10 leadbelchers, 12 gluttons. That’s a great 1,5K list to start with. 
but really ironguts are your way into battalions. So that’s the way to build out from there. 

[Lustim]

11 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Vs a more traditional SC box Feast of Bones a bit of a tough spot to start out with.  Simply put, you’re going to need some Ironguts and yes, converting one of the Tyrants to a Butcher a good choice.  But focusing on what you have you might as well start with the Tyrant’s Gutguard Battalion.

Tyrant (160)

4x Ironguts (220)

Ironblaster (120)

Ironblaster (120)

Battalion (120)

Definitely not my favorite battalion but only requires you to buy 1 unit you don’t already have and gets you to 740 pts.  

Next you could try Butcher’s Band Battalion:

Butcher (converted) (140)

4x Ironguts (220)

4x Leadbelchers (160) 

12x Gluttons (400)

Battalion (140 pts)

So for the price of another box of Ironguts you’ve added 1060 more pts taking your army to 1800 if my mental math is accurate.  Another butcher and an Endless spell and you can call it a day with all your battle line requirements taken care of.  If I’m reading Website right you’ll be out ~$120 more.

Not per se a top of the line list but takes advantage of everything you already have and is only three drops so depending on your local meta you could be fine to get started (and Gutbusters absolutely great to learn with).  After a few games you’ll have a much better idea of what you want and with only a limited amount invested (and eBay to resell on) you have minimal opportunity cost to going a new direction.

The other low cost alternative (and ignoring drops and Battalions for a moment is to buy the BCR SC box to add to what you have.  Build as a Frostlord on Stonehorn.  That will add 680 pts to your existing 1360.  (Again all mental math at moment so apologies if off anywhere.). So drop 2x leadbelchers or 3x gluttons and tweak from there.  This will give you some flavor of both sides, again at minimal cost.  Play a few games and tweak as needed.

But Ironguts probably your safest next purchase either way.

Thank you so much on your time to explain everything to me.

I will buy 2x ironguts when they will be avalible + a butcher.

Do to that list what would you take for artefacts and unit abilities?

[Arcce]

Are Ironguts worth it as a 12 man unit? or is the sweet spot at 8.

[Sauriv]

17 minutes ago, Arcce said:

Are Ironguts worth it as a 12 man unit? or is the sweet spot at 8.

Never tried 12 in one unit, but 8 ironguts have a very high damage output. 

A group of 12 gluttons sometimes struggle to get everyone into combat but with 2" range ironguts would most likely be able to fight. the problem, as i see it, is that a group of 12 will probably be suuuper focused and killed before being able to do much and battleshock also becomes a problem. 

[Arcce]

1 hour ago, Sauriv said:

Never tried 12 in one unit, but 8 ironguts have a very high damage output. 

A group of 12 gluttons sometimes struggle to get everyone into combat but with 2" range ironguts would most likely be able to fight. the problem, as i see it, is that a group of 12 will probably be suuuper focused and killed before being able to do much and battleshock also becomes a problem. 

Yeah, at that point, it probably becomes the main focus of the army, would need a tyrant for BS immunity and a butcher or 2 to buff them.

[Sauriv]

1 hour ago, Arcce said:

Yeah, at that point, it probably becomes the main focus of the army, would need a tyrant for BS immunity and a butcher or 2 to buff them.

Yeah, and at that point you're investing half your army to buff one unit that could be debuffed by your opponent or just being heavy focused and killed. 

[Kadeton]

I played a matchup this evening that I hadn't seen before - Mawtribes v Mawtribes. We both went heavy on the Beastclaws, though my opponent also brought a big mob of Gluttons and a Butcher.

I tell you what, if you ever want to have a super quick game of AoS, that's the way to do it. I reckon our 2000-point game was done in 45 minutes, including time for friendly chit-chat.

Anyway, no particular insights or Ogor-related wisdom, just wanted to share. I'm having a great time with the Beastclaws as my main army.

[HostilSpike]

On 3/8/2020 at 10:27 PM, FatherTurin said:

Chaos Warhounds, also benefit from being on the right size base right out of the box (and cheap).

I use Warhounds with plenty of Greenstuff

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

19 hours ago, Lustim said:

Do to that list what would you take for artefacts and unit abilities?

Acknowledging that I’ve been very biased towards a Bloodgullet in my own lists but as long as you’ve got those Ironblasters @Kramer is right you should probably go Underguts I would be putting the mandatory Gnoblar Blast Keg on the Tyrant, the Shrunken Priesthead on one of the Butchers and the Wizardflesh Apron on the other. 

[Kramer]

6 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Acknowledging that I’ve been very biased towards a Bloodgullet in my own lists but as long as you’ve got those Ironblasters @Kramer is right you should probably go Underguts I would be putting the mandatory Gnoblar Blast Keg on the Tyrant, the Shrunken Priesthead on one of the Butchers and the Wizardflesh Apron on the other. 

Love that the mawtribes book has such great internal balance that this is even a conversation. There are so little ‘bad’ unit choices. 😄 

the only things I’d say to avoid are thundertusks and gorgers. and even they  aren’t unusable there are just better choices. 

[Schauer]

So im weighing myself between two lists for an upcoming 1500 pt tournament using objectives this time instead of first blood. Despite this, I think I'll still bring Boulderhead as I had a lot of fun playing low model count and painting the stonehorns using unorthodox schemes. That being said, Im split down the middle between two different lists.

Allegience: Ogor Mawtribes
Mortal Realm: Chamon
Mawtribe: Boulderhead

Leaders:
Icebrow Hunter (120)
-General
- CT: Lord of Beasts 
-Artefact: Rune Blade

Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
-Artefact: Brand of the Svard
-Mount Trait: Metal Cruncher

Frostlord on Stonehorn (400)
-Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn 

Huskard on Stonehorn
-Mount Trait: Old Granitetooth
-Chain Trap


Units:

4 x Frost Sabres (80)

2 x Frost Sabres (40)

2 x Frost Sabres (40)

Battalions:

Skal (100)

1500/1500

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribe
Mawtribe: Boulderhead

Leaders: 

Huskard on Stonehorn (320)
-General
-CT: Lord of Beasts
-Chain Trap
-Artefact: Brand of the Svard
Mount Trait: Black Clatterhorn

Firebelly (120)
-Fiery Whirlwind

Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Molten Entrails

 

Behemoths (Counted as battleline not behemoths in this army)

Stonehorn Beastriders (300)

Stonehorn Beastriders (300)

Stonehorn Beastriders (300)
 

1480/1500

I know I dont have much in the way of protecting the firebelly in the second list so maybe I would be better off bringing two mournfang instead, but the idea of using him as a horde killer sounds fun and if hes taking damage, it means my stonehorns arent which im fine with. Also Love the idea of a potential 5 damage output on a stonehorn.  This list lacks the ability to be really strong objective wise but if they do enough damage on alpha strikes im sure I could come back into the game in the later rounds. 

The other list is probably the safer bet for objective play, with frost sabres being nice to deep strike something in the backline i dont want focusing down my stonehorns. That being said, I am worried about the potential for battleshock to kick in on the kitties but they get a slight bonus from the icebrow hunter, who I gave the runeblade for to increase his threat to enemies since not many will be able to do much about -3 rend.  The lack of magic hurts though and if someone starts swarming the field with endless spells it will made me wish I took the artefact that allows me to dispel them. 

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

Love that the mawtribes book has such great internal balance that this is even a conversation. There are so little ‘bad’ unit choices. 😄 

the only things I’d say to avoid are thundertusks and gorgers. and even they  aren’t unusable there are just better choices

Agree that the new tome has a lot to offer.  Personally I’m finding more on the Gutbuster side (despite my frustration with the Leadbelchers...) to get excited about because I just haven’t warmed up to any of the BCR battalions.  That may be because I have a special place for the old Braggoth’s Beast Hammer Battalion with which I won a small round robin tournament with.

In that list I also had a Thundertusk Beastriders and with the old Thundertusk Snowball they were an awesome compliment to the Beast Hammer’s destruction.  So the change to their warscroll was pretty disappointing to me.

In combination I just haven’t found a BCR list I like nearly as much as my old one:

Frostlord on Stonehorn (General) w/Pelt of Charngar and Massive Bulk

Butcher w/Gryph Feather Charm

Fungoid Cave-Shaman (ally)

2x Mournfang Pack

2x Mournfang Pack

Thundertusk Beastriders 

4x Frost Sabres

3x Icefall Yhetees

3x Gore Gruntas (battalion)

3x Gore Gruntas (battalion)

Balewind Vortex

Braggoth’s Beast Hammer Battalion

I just haven’t found any combinations in new tome that give BCR all the characteristics I was getting out of this list using the old tome. 

Again, it’s clearly better overall.  Just can’t help missing how fun that list was.  Any recommendations from others?

[Kramer]

40 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

just haven’t found any combinations in new tome that give BCR all the characteristics I was getting out of this list using the old tome. 

Again, it’s clearly better overall.  Just can’t help missing how fun that list was.  Any recommendations from others

It’s super hard to recreate the old from a new tome. Even if the lore around hasn’t changed much. Rules changes do impact the ‘feel’ of an army. I’m still struggling to find enjoyment in my old dark elves in cities of sigmar. Suddenly it’s pretty much an horde army  

so no advice there. But I recognise the feeling. 

[Skoll]

8 hours ago, Kramer said:

Love that the mawtribes book has such great internal balance that this is even a conversation. There are so little ‘bad’ unit choices. 😄 

the only things I’d say to avoid are thundertusks and gorgers. and even they  aren’t unusable there are just better choices. 

yetis, gorgers and thundertusks fall solidly in alright. I've also never seen anyone recommend the 3rd mawtribe which isnt bloodgullet or underguts. So I guess there is that

[FatherTurin]

2 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

I just haven’t found any combinations in new tome that give BCR all the characteristics I was getting out of this list using the old tome. 

Again, it’s clearly better overall.  Just can’t help missing how fun that list was.  Any recommendations from others?

Well, as an initial matter, the old snowball is dead and gone, it’s best to try and forget about it because otherwise you will be disappointed about a lot.  In the words of a certain polarizing Star Wars character, let the past die.  Kill it if you have to.

Now for the good news.  Stonehorns are several tons of unmitigated brutality (for the opponent) and joy (for you).  Now you don’t feel gimped with a BCR list that doesn’t include a unit that spits out mortal wounds at range but, frankly, was not great for its points in melee.  Not feeling like you have to take a Thundertusk frees you up to explore the wonderful world of Stonehorns and, to a lesser extent, Mournfang.

A Huskard on Stonehorn, Stonehorn Beastriders, and two units of Mournfang in a Eurlbad is a good start.  Between blood vultures, charges, the Eurlbad ability, and ironfists, you will be dealing PLENTY of mortals, to the point that the snowball won’t be missed.  Neither will mediocre prayers.

Then add additional flavors to taste.  I’m partial to two FLoSHs, because, well, FLoSH.  Go Boulderhead, give one Frostlord Brand of the Svard and Metalcruncher, give the other Frostlord Black Clatterhorn, and give the Huskard Old Granitetooth.

Now you have a choice to make.  Do you want your army to be a solid wall of angry Stonehorns grinding towards and through the enemy?  Pick Shyish, give the other Frostlord the Ethereal Amulet and make him your general.

But, FatherTurin, you say.  I want a specific murder missile to eliminate almost any single threat in the Mortal Realms!  Well, fear not, little Gnoblar, we will make a Huskard out of you yet.  Pick Aqshy, give the other Frostlord the Thermalrider Cloak, and enjoy a Frostlord with a 19” (12 base + 4 (cloak) + 2 (hungry) + 1 (lord of beasts)) flying movement.

You probably don’t want him to be your general, because he will probably rocket up the board turn one, murder something SUPER hard, and be on the receiving end of a very angry army.

Its a blast, and you should try it.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Skoll said:

yetis, gorgers and thundertusks fall solidly in alright. I've also never seen anyone recommend the 3rd mawtribe which isnt bloodgullet or underguts. So I guess there is that

Haha so true that I forgot about the blood fist tribe 😂 

yhetees are better than solid though. They are Great but people don’t like the models mostly. Having played sisters of slaughter a bunch last year the 6” pile in allows so many tricks and plays. I personally don’t take them because I’m they are a bit situational and the army gobbles up points. 

[Skoll]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

Haha so true that I forgot about the blood fist tribe 😂 

yhetees are better than solid though. They are Great but people don’t like the models mostly. Having played sisters of slaughter a bunch last year the 6” pile in allows so many tricks and plays. I personally don’t take them because I’m they are a bit situational and the army gobbles up points. 

oh dont get me wrong I like em, its just that with hitting on 4+ when rest of army is on 3+ and  paper thin saves all with lesser support. they are a tough sell in most lists, because like you said the army eats points

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

4 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

Eurlbad is a good start.  Between blood vultures, charges, the Eurlbad ability, and ironfists, you will be dealing PLENTY of mortals, to the point that the snowball won’t be missed.

Eurlbad is probably the battalion I’ve been most interested in as I agree the extra MWs are better than a one time variable movement bonus.

But gets to the heart of where I struggle with the battalions because NO FLoSH!  As fond of Braggoth as I might have been the new FLoSH is indisputably better from the counts as 10 to the mount traits and on.  Love the FLoSH.  Love the idea of running two of them.  And thank you very much for the ideas on how to make two FLoSH even more awesome!

But outside of the Alfrostun (for which I am eagerly awaiting an AoS Apocalypse-style rule set to better manage these massive games, having run enough at 8K+ total points to know how unwieldy they can become) none of the battalions now start with a FLoSH the way good old Beast Hammer did.

Fine to let go of the past but in an expensive an army as BCR having all of the Behemoth-centric battalions requiring you to take a Huskard instead of a Frostlord is no small thing.  Now with the loss of the old snowball you almost certainly want to take the HoSH... except that means you lose the PRIEST aspect too.  Fair enough this is a priest w/out a native unbind and/dispell but still, that is another factor to consider.

There are definite positives in that all three of the Behemoth battalions fulfill your battleline requirements.  So at least having spent a little more than half your points you are at least free to pick and choose from there.  Of course going the two FLoSH will eat up most of what’s left.  And if all I was looking for from the old Thundertusk Snowball was the MWs you’re absolutely right I can more than make up for them by going the direction you have suggested.  Additionally I agree that it would also probably be quite a fun list to play a few times.

But as much as I may miss the MWs from the old snowball what I truly miss is the way Braggoth’s Beast Hammer used to synergize.

Now the Mournfang do seem to have been upgraded such that I won’t miss the battalion buff but in my old list I essentially had two wings:

- FLOSH, 2x Mournfang & 3x Gore Gruntas

- Butcher (Gryph Feather helped him keep up), 2x Mournfang & 3x Gore Gruntas

These provided me with a lot of flexibility whether it was going after objectives or gaining board control.  Behind either of these wings I could put my artillery in the TBR.  It was great for either opening up holes for one of the wings to charge through or softening up a tarpit that was trying to slowdown my FLoSH.  And the combo of snowball and FLoSH left my opponent’s struggling over which to prioritize.

Behind them I had my auxiliary.  Typically I’d leave the Sabres with the Fungoid Cave Shaman to provide Lookout Sir until I got him up on the Balewind.  the Yhetees were great for shenanigans with their 6” pile-in, especially with my opponents so often focused elsewhere.

Will never forget getting to the third round of the round robin tournament I took them to and having my Nurgle opponent put their entire army, including three GUOs and multiple units of PBKs all on his back line because he was so worried about both my first round charges and shooting that he wanted to wait and see what I’d do before committing his forces.  Allowed me to take control of objectives and win on VP a match I probably should have lost just comparing the two lists side-by-side.  But that was the type of flexibility I’d shown in prior matches against LoA and Sylvaneth.

The key thing I am looking for in the new tome then isn’t just a way to replace the snowball, but rather a way to have the synergies and flexibility’s my old list had.  Right now I find plenty of that in the Gutbusters side, especially as there is nothing preventing me from taking that awesome FLoSH as part of a Gutbuster centric list.  As a result so often when I start to build a BCR focused list by the time I finish tweaking it is closer and closer to a Gutbuster list...

There’s nothing wrong with going all out smash mouth once in a while.  Or if that is your playing style absolutely more power too you and may your Ogors ever be feeding on your enemies!  But in general I’m not an all or nothing style player.  And in the end it is fine if the new BCR just cant give me what I want for regular play.  Further, I do understand I’m just plowing paths in the above already well trodden & packed down earlier in this thread.

But given how much fun I used to have with BCR I can’t help but hold out hope that I can find a way to have winter lightning strike again!

Been playing around more with Skal given its low cost and help with Battlines.  Will keep tweaking.

Again thanks for the FLoSH advice as trying those out could free other things up elsewhere in the list if I can get the two of them to do very different things.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Beer & Pretzels Gamer

[FatherTurin]

34 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

SNIP (quote just to show up in notifications and so you know I’m responding to you)

 

I hear you, I really do.  I would love to be able to forge a list that can have bodies for objectives from Gutbusters and some killy BCR monsters.

Unfortunatley, every time I am putting together a BCR list and try to put in Gutbusters, I just want more BCR.  Every time I start putting together a Gutbusters list I have trouble justifying putting in more BCR than possibly a lone FLoSH (since that guy is hands down the best thing in our book).  Gutbusters have one of the best units for locking down objectives (60-d3 immune to battleshock Gnoblars), but that’s a heck of a board presence with the big bases of BCR, and it requires a Tyrant, which eats into points, and then you want a Butcher, and then why not some Gluttons to get buffed, and some Ironguts for a solid punch, and why am I using gnoblars when I could use another 12 block of gluttons, and all of a sudden I have a Bloodgullet list.

So, I’m with you.  Not specifically the beast hammer list, I never bought into the Ironjawz for it (but I almost did and now I just keep hoping giants release before my resolve fails and I end up with a few thousand points of Orruks), but the general headaches with trying to build a diverse list.  When the book came out I thought for sure a mixed list was the way to go, but the more time passes the more I think that we have essentially two armies in one book, much like Orruks, and no Big Waagh equivalent for effectively mix them.

I’m not complaining, I love the book, I think it’s one of the most consistent and balanced ones all year, and I love Ogors.  It just feels like without going to AoS “apocalypse” size games, I really can’t fit even close to all the fun stuff I want to in a list.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

41 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

I’m not complaining, I love the book, I think it’s one of the most consistent and balanced ones all year, and I love Ogors.

Yup.  Same here.

 Gutbusters were one of my first armies (the other was Swifthawk Agents... I clearly really didn’t initially grasp the importance of tomes) but after a few narrative games they got set aside and I switched to BCR.  Had a good run with them but learned how limiting the 1.0 tomes were and began exploring a lot of different armies like FEC and Khorne (while waiting for 2.0 tomes to try out KO and TZ).

Was thrilled then to get this new tome that had both Gutbusters and BCR.  Similarly thought I’d be running balanced list but Bloodgullet pulled me really hard back into Gutbusters side.  Really happy there and still feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface.  Just struggling to get back into BCR.

Truthfully if all I get out of this tome is Gutbusters lists (with cameos by the FLoSH) I will be perfectly content and it will balance things out.

But you’ve got me back tinkering with double FLoSH Skal lists...

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

Quick question.  Is the Fungoid Cave Shaman still an eligible ally?  WSBuilder and Azyr give different answers.

[Slayerofmen]

It is not

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

25 minutes ago, Slayerofmen said:

It is not

Thank you for the quick response.  Disappointing.  Liked that little guy...

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Quick question.  Is the Fungoid Cave Shaman still an eligible ally?  WSBuilder and Azyr give different answers.

It is. The malign sorcery rules are still in play. There is weird argument that gets repeated about it not having the HARBRINGER keyword. But that was never a thing. If you read the malign sorcery text it becomes clear that the fungoid cave shaman is still eligible and there are no newer rules that overwrite it not a faq/ errata declaring the rules outdated 

(also most list building unclarities stem from those two tools. I would suggest using the actual rules because those tool are just to riddled with bugs to use as a check for correct lists)

Edited March 12, 2020 by Kramer