Total War Warhammer Digital Assets and Sculpting

[Austin]

I am going to fully expose my ignorance here but be gentle.

Would it be possible to use the digital assets from Total War Warhammer I/II as the basis for 3D sculpting new models for AoS?  If you haven't seen the game, Creative Assembly has always done a tremendous job with  unit models that are beautiful and fit the lore perfectly.

And so it makes me wonder for things like Kroxigors if Games Workshop could use those digital designs as the starting point to save time/effort/money.

[Overread]

It's very hard to say. Even if they could export the digital designs there's a chance that the two companies use very different 3D modelling software and sometimes converting between software packages can result in more work than it is to rebuild from the ground up.

Another issue is that the designs for the computer game don't have to worry about posing restrictions due to casting and certain areas of the animation can get away bending/bleeding/twisting/ turning in abnormal angles because its not something we will "see" when playing. So it might be that manipulating the design could result in big abnormal looking gaps which are fine when everything is moving, but looks silly when static. 

 

GW could certainly take inspiration from them and I would love for them to do so. IT might even be that its gone the other way around and the TW team has seen some sculpts  and artwork designs that are not yet in production from GW. 

 

 

[Scurvydog]

It does not appear like GW is ever looking to anyone else for their designs. The only influence I have seen to date is the introduction of blood ravens in the 40k lore, but that is not even  models.

Total War has done the sort of rare thing and expanded on the original designs, where most other products just copy paste the established looks.

As a seraphon player I would love nothing more than if GW took a cue from CA's designs, but I do not believe they will. In fact I find it more likely they will abandon the line alltogether, as the mesoamerican theme no longer fits their design philosophies (of not using any real world culture inspiration 1:1).

Doing a sculpt is also quite a different beast than just having the models look, but of course they could be inspired by anything they see, but I do not think any assets other than artwork as inspiration will be useful for creating miniatures. I might be wrong though of course, just my impression though.

 

[Overread]

The Seraphon/Lizardmen only had a tentative connection to the Mesoamerican connections and most of it was just their pyramids and a few choices in armour here and there. Otherwise they were pretty much their own thing with many of their warriors not having full armour and such. Heck they are giant man-lizards who ride dinosaurs. 

I can see GW instead of abandoning, they will just turn the fantasy up a good few notches. Perhaps even making them a touch more extreme in how they look. 

 

GW is clearly still using the real world - look at Daughters of Khaine or the recent Warcry Warbands where tehre's clear Greek influences. I think the key is that as they are no longer (in any form) bound to specific correlations they can mix and match more freely. Greeks with an injection of Roman; Arabians with an injection of Celtics etc... 

[Beliman]

I did that when I was learning 3D (4 years ago) so I'm a bit rusty but from what I remember:

1. Look for the model. I don't know how TWW was organized, but I imagine that you will need some "type of software" to open all database files. Just look for assets, models, etc...and find what you want.
2. Change the extension to another one that your software can use. 
3. Import it to Zbrush, Blender, Maya, etc.. but:
   1. Some companies save all rigs and models in the same files and others just divide them between diferent datas. If the models are in T pose without any skeleton, then you need to look for the rig files and import them. After that, just move rig controls to make your final pose. If you can't import or use their rigs, you will need to learn your 3D software and pose it by hand (time consuming).
   2. After the pose is done, just make the model printable, look for tutorials. 
4. Ready to print!!!

 

 

[Austin]

27 minutes ago, Overread said:

It's very hard to say. Even if they could export the digital designs there's a chance that the two companies use very different 3D modelling software and sometimes converting between software packages can result in more work than it is to rebuild from the ground up.

Another issue is that the designs for the computer game don't have to worry about posing restrictions due to casting and certain areas of the animation can get away bending/bleeding/twisting/ turning in abnormal angles because its not something we will "see" when playing. So it might be that manipulating the design could result in big abnormal looking gaps which are fine when everything is moving, but looks silly when static. 

 

GW could certainly take inspiration from them and I would love for them to do so. IT might even be that its gone the other way around and the TW team has seen some sculpts  and artwork designs that are not yet in production from GW. 

 

 

Yeah that was pretty much what I was wondering, how easy it is to adapt digital animations to something workable in plastic.

[Kirjava13]

If GW don't make new Kroxigors based on the Total War designs then they deserve everything bad that's ever happened to them. Those beasties are beautiful.

[tom_gore]

Keep in mind that 3D models in games generally miss any texture from the meshes as that's done with bump maps, tesselation and just well... digital textures. It means that in order to make it into a printable model that looks like the one in the game, you'd probably have to do a lot of work.

Also, TWW poly count is probably quite low for a high-quality 3D printed model.

YMMV.

 

[Trayanee]

18 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

Keep in mind that 3D models in games generally miss any texture from the meshes as that's done with bump maps, tesselation and just well... digital textures. It means that in order to make it into a printable model that looks like the one in the game, you'd probably have to do a lot of work.

Also, TWW poly count is probably quite low for a high-quality 3D printed model.

YMMV.

 

Well, you are right in general...but, its not uncommon that those low poly models are often created from hi poly which was the case in TWW as you can see for example here: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/b4NNm or her https://www.artstation.com/artwork/WqzZX and feel free to search artstation for TWW/2 assets. Basically any model in the game was created in quality that should be enough to directly print it as master for a miniature. Of course those hi-poly models are not avaiable....that would make GW kaboom and my photon printer too because it would run 24/7 😄

Edited September 4, 2019 by Trayanee

[tom_gore]

2 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

Well, you are right in general...but, its not uncommon those low poly models are often created from hi poly which was the case in TWW as you can see for example here: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/b4NNm and feel free to search artstation for TWW/2 assets. Basically any model in the game was created in quality that should be enough to directly print it as master for a miniature. Of course those hi-poly models are not avaiable....that would make GW kaboom and my photon printer too because it would run 24/7 😄

Didn't think of that. Thanks for the info

[Beliman]

12 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

Well, you are right in general...but, its not uncommon those low poly models are often created from hi poly which was the case in TWW as you can see for example here: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/b4NNm and feel free to search artstation for TWW/2 assets. Basically any model in the game was created in quality that should be enough to directly print it as master for a miniature. Of course those hi-poly models are not avaiable....that would make GW kaboom and my photon printer too because it would run 24/7 😄

But this high-poly models are not in game's files, they are part of the creative process (they extract some maps directly from them and are the blueprint to make the real mesh for the model).

If you want to have some type of texture printed, the best thing that you can do is just download some alphas and start sculpting.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Beliman

[Trayanee]

1 minute ago, Beliman said:

But this high-poly models are not in game's files, they are part of the creative process (they extract some maps directly from them and are the blueprint to make the real mesh for the model).

If you want to have some type of texture printed, the best thing that you can do is just download some alphas and start sculpting.

I know. I actually wrote that in my post, that they are not available...

[JackStreicher]

Well, first off: No you cannot.

1) The Models are too well hidden inside CA‘s code.

2) The Models are Low-Poly. You might get sth. Out of them by using the Normal-Maps of the Materials (these Maps are created with the High-Res Sculpts of each Model)

3) The scale is absolutely not appropriate for Miniatures. TW has more of a realistic scale whereas Tabletop Proportions are completely different. If you‘d manage to get your hands on a Sculpt and you‘d print it you‘d see that the hands, feet, the head and all details are WAY too small

4) Game Assets suffer quite dramatically in mesh thicknesses and clipping compared to a Tabletop Sculpt.

 

5) The Animations would work since you can stop an animation at any time, take the pose and adjust it.

To summarize: 

find s.o. Who can Sculpt for 3D printing, pay that person adequately and you‘re better off.

costs: 300-1000€ per Model, depending on complexity, details, pose and the amount of changes the customer wishes.

In case you are interested in comparing real-scale 3D prints to Tabletop Models I could forward you images of my 3D Modelling for 3D Printing Patreon (Patreon MadCake) which features a Real-scale Knight and soon a Tabletop-scale Knight (both have a 32mm scale)

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Lord marcus]

3 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

If GW don't make new Kroxigors based on the Total War designs then they deserve everything bad that's ever happened to them. Those beasties are beautiful.

The head designer for CA, who heavily influenced the kroxigor designs, made a batch of his own personal 3d sculpts prior to working for CA. The krox we see in game are very similar.

 

He no longer produces them due to his employment with CA, but you can find them on eBay from time to time for ludicrous pricing. "Woogity kroxigor"

 

 

Personally, I want GW to make kroxigor with powerfists

[JackStreicher]

4 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

If GW don't make new Kroxigors based on the Total War designs then they deserve everything bad that's ever happened to them. Those beasties are beautiful.

I could make some right after my current two projects (Feudal Knight Beastslayer and a Chainlord) 🤔