Ejecutor Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 33 minutes ago, Whitefang back me up said: What do you think of Aqshy? Or Indexes? No reason for asking… Also someone said something about an model called the avatar of the rat god? Thats not correct. It’s just the 5th Chaos god - The Horned Rat. Also, please. Aqshy again no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 29 minutes ago, Garrac said: Huh? I don't know what are you talking about, we already knew the GHR was nowadays the 5th chaos god He is saying we are getting a Horned Rat model in the skaven update. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: He is saying we are getting a Horned Rat model in the skaven update. Would it be weird getting a Chaos god model? That opens the door for the other gods as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: He is saying we are getting a Horned Rat model in the skaven update. Ummmm? No way, the Great Horned Rat is too much of a coward to show himself on battle. he doesnt even grand his personal powers to any of his minions... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I would be sad if they go the Kragnos route with the Horned Rat. I like the gods to have an air of mystery and godlyness to them. Not become the next Primarchs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Gitzdee said: I would be sad if they go the Kragnos route with the Horned Rat. I like the gods to have an air of mystery and godlyness to them. Not become the next Primarchs. It would also go against the lore. Again, the Great Horned Rat doesnt give powers to ANYONE. Nor to grey seers, neither to screaming bells, and not even to verminlords. He keeps his power aaaaaal for himself, waiting for the moment he can use it to end all of creation and become the only remaining being in existence. It's his whole gimmick, and the traditional lore explanation on why there aren't horned rat demons. Edited February 16 by Garrac 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, Garrac said: I would also go against the lore. Again, the Great Horned Rat doesnt give powers to ANYONE. Nor to grey seers, neither to screaming bells, and not even to verminlords. He keeps his power aaaaaal for himself, waiting for the moment he can use it to end all of creation and become the only remaining being in existence. It's his whole gimmick, and the traditional lore explanation on why there aren't horned rat demons. Welcome to AoS, where the lore is tweaked more times than the Great Book of Grudges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augusto Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Arent verminlords daemons? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, Augusto said: Arent verminlords daemons? Nope, they're a group of rats put together with some cellophane that lose their entire identity and dont know how tf to please the GHR. They even have to make a whole secondary council of 13 because they are as clueless about GHR's will as regular skavens To be "ascended" by the GHR is both a reward and a punishment. And the process isnt even flawless 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) On 2/16/2024 at 12:06 PM, Whitefang back me up said: What do you think of Aqshy? Or Indexes? No reason for asking… The realm itself is not the problem, the issue is when players doesn't have any involvement in that zone. Maybe because there aren't any characters to follow, any interesting civilizations to defend (or attack) or nobody knows anything about the zone (aka, Thondia). If a Thondia's settlement is destroyed, probably nobody will blink an eye (appart from @Baron Klatz, is a joy to read your posts), but if someone destroys Anvilgard Hammerhall, that's another thing. What I'm trying to say is that GW need to invest in creating an environment for players to care. That's the whole point of building a Setting. About Index, I hope for the best, but I don't want to be naive, I expect a lot of problems in early edition (if we are lucky, all of them only about balance). I just hope that AoS flavour is still there in some form (customization and a bit of love for Heroes). Edited February 17 by Beliman 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augusto Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 30 minutes ago, Garrac said: Nope, they're a group of rats put together with some cellophane that lose their entire identity and dont know how tf to please the GHR. They even have to make a whole secondary council of 13 because they are as clueless about GHR's will as regular skavens To be "ascended" by the GHR is both a reward and a punishment. And the process isnt even flawless from Lexicanum: Verminlords are the Daemons of the Great Horned Rat, towering icons of ruin able to call upon fell energies and manipulate the weak-willed from warhammer wiki: A Verminlord is the sole Daemonic manifestation of the Skaven's minor Chaos God, the Horned Rat. These Daemons are by far the strongest and most fearsome beings the Under-Empire has ever known. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 22 minutes ago, Garrac said: Nope, they're a group of rats put together with some cellophane that lose their entire identity and dont know how tf to please the GHR. They even have to make a whole secondary council of 13 because they are as clueless about GHR's will as regular skavens To be "ascended" by the GHR is both a reward and a punishment. And the process isnt even flawless I am by no means an expert on the Skaven lore, but my feeling is that some of these theories are way over-complicated. The GW site describe the model as follows: Verminlords are living icons of ruin; towering figures possessed of raw power and feral savagery. As avatars of the Horned Rat they can call upon fell energies, manipulating the weak-willed into doing almost anything they will. Can a minor Chaos God appear on the tabletop as a result of narrative in which he tries to achieve more? Sure thing. Even though I don't like huge god-level models, we already have a plethora of characters on similar power level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Trogg Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 37 minutes ago, Garrac said: Nope, they're a group of rats put together with some cellophane that lose their entire identity and dont know how tf to please the GHR. They even have to make a whole secondary council of 13 because they are as clueless about GHR's will as regular skavens To be "ascended" by the GHR is both a reward and a punishment. And the process isnt even flawless I may be mistaken, but if I recall correctly, this description fits for Skreech Verminking, but not for the regular Verminlord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Augusto said: from Lexicanum: Verminlords are the Daemons of the Great Horned Rat, towering icons of ruin able to call upon fell energies and manipulate the weak-willed from warhammer wiki: A Verminlord is the sole Daemonic manifestation of the Skaven's minor Chaos God, the Horned Rat. These Daemons are by far the strongest and most fearsome beings the Under-Empire has ever known. Those quotes come froman antiquated shop description and taken from their ass. Shop descriptions aren't what I'd call the source of all warhammer lore. What you must read are the Thanquol ET books, that retconned much of this stuff. Edited February 16 by Garrac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Swamp Trogg said: I may be mistaken, but if I recall correctly, this description fits for Skreech Verminking, but not for the regular Verminlord. That also appears on the Thanquol book 2 description for general verminlords... Edited February 16 by Garrac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 17 minutes ago, Beliman said: The realm itself is not the problem, the issue is when players doesn't have any involvement in that zone. Maybe because there aren't any characters to follow, any interesting civilizations to defend (or attack) or nobody knows anything about the zone (aka, Thondia). If a Thondia's settlement is destroyed, probably nobody will blink an eye (appart from @Baron Klatz, is a joy to read your posts), but if someone destroys Anvilgard Hammerhall, that's another thing. What I'm trying to say is that GW need to invest in creating an environment for players to care. That's the whole point of building a Setting. About Index, I hope for the best, but I don't want to be naive, I expect a lot of problems in early edition (with luck, all of them about balance problems). I just hope that AoS flavour is still there in some form (customization and a bit of love for Heroes). I have my fingers crossed about Hammerhall being crushed in Dawnbringers. Anvilgar's falling was a super awesome plot. The problem with this is those of us who have the minis painted following that particular city. It could really hurt... and for the Hammerhall specific scheme, they are the CoS posterboys, but oh boy. It would be so cool for the narrative. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I can see at least Bonesplitterz, Firebellies or Frazzlegitz happening in Aqshy. Would not complain about any of those. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, Gitzdee said: I can see at least Bonesplitterz, Firebellies or Frazzlegitz happening in Aqshy. Would not complain about any of those. But Chamon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 1 minute ago, Ejecutor said: But Chamon... I think someone has to explain me all this drama towards the realms on which every story is set because Im kinda lost there, lol (the drama, not the realms) Edited February 16 by Garrac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 16 minutes ago, Garrac said: I think someone has to explain me all this drama towards the realms on which every story is set because Im kinda lost there, lol (the drama, not the realms) Well, Chamon is the realm of Metal... For me, it is something personal. I have my main army established in Chamon, and I feel I do have not enough information about it. So having a plot developed on it would help me to get more ideas and knowledge for basing and theming my army/ scenery. And if scenery specific from that realm is released, it would be an awesome compliment. It is a bit of whislisting. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrac Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Just now, Ejecutor said: Well, Chamon is the realm of Metal... For me, it is something personal. I have my main army established in Chamon, and I feel I do have not enough information about it. So having a plot developed on it would help me to get more ideas and knowledge for basing and theming my army/ scenery. And if scenery specific from that realm is released, it would be an awesome compliment. It is a bit of whislisting. Now that you say it, I consider a waste of potential that GW has neeeeeever released realm-specific bases or technical paints, seems like easy printable money to me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 6 hours ago, Beliman said: I think that war40k core mechanics and the rule's design are a lot better than people think. If there was more customization options, subfactions or "background flavour" to play around, people would have another perspective, even if the game still had the same mechanics. AoS is in the other side of the coin, there is a lot of flavour, but the rules are a bit off. With a lot of layers of rules on top of other layers, and a meta-gaming based on stuff like how to acquire arbitrary Victory Points instead of what your models do or have. Agreed. There are some mindboggling choices made in 40k 10th though. Like overwatch potentially being after EVERY movement. It always seems like players end up looking at each other expectantly after every move lol. Also stripping chapter identity out of marines and chaos marines has straight up made people sell armies in my area. I haven't sold any of mine but they are def on the back burner. Agreed on AOS too. AOS is far from perfect but as it stands I think overall its a better experience. I just hope they revisit faction tactics and grands in 4.0. The Leviathan Deck in 10th 40k, love it or hate it, is an objectively fair way to achieve VPs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 2 hours ago, Ejecutor said: Would it be weird getting a Chaos god model? That opens the door for the other gods as well... Yes! For the love of all that is unholy, NEVER release any Chaos god model. NEVER EVER! 🙏 If they want to show them outside of art, make a statue/terrain or whatever but no actual mini of any Chaos god. It just cheapens them and brings them down to a demigod level. I‘m very opinionated on this issue. Chaos gods have no definite form and shape and they are unlike the mortal-turned-god gods in action, ability and behavior! (Not saying they are necessarily better here, just different). Kinda like the God-Emperor feels much different to say Sigmar. One you think you could go for a pint with, the other isn‘t really that close to a human. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 32 minutes ago, Landohammer said: Also stripping chapter identity out of marines and chaos marines has straight up made people sell armies in my area. I always struggle to understand this. The chapter identity will be restored, sooner or later, and marines will not dissolve while they wait in the cabinet for a year or two. If someone is so attached to the lore of their army, why sell? 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, MitGas said: Yes! For the love of all that is unholy, NEVER release any Chaos god model. NEVER EVER! 🙏 If they want to show them outside of art, make a statue/terrain or whatever but no actual mini of any Chaos god. It just cheapens them and brings them down to a demigod level. I‘m very opinionated on this issue. Chaos gods have no definite form and shape and they are unlike the mortal-turned-god gods in action, ability and behavior! (Not saying they are necessarily better here, just different). Kinda like the God-Emperor feels much different to say Sigmar. One you think you could go for a pint with, the other isn‘t really that close to a human. But the Horned Rat is a minor, tribal god of rat-people. Again, I don't like these god-level models at all, but his incarnation would not be out of place alongside the likes of Nagash or Teclis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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