Deepkin Allies Question

[Shirayuri]

Hi all. First time poster here so I apologize if this should be within the Deepkin discussion thread itself. 

 

Essentially I currently own and am painting my way through 1620 points of Deepkin and have 380 left until I can play a 2K game. I understand that the Deepkin have a bunch of cool large options I could go for, but I do like the idea of adding some allies. 

I have managed to get my hands on the old Lokhir Fellheart model so I was thinking maybe Lokhir with 20 Corsairs and a War Hydra, and then I realized that the Kharibdyss is the Scourge Privateer monster, not the hydra. Looking at the warscrolls though, the hydra is not only better looking but sounds much more tanky. 

On the other hand back in WHF I used to play High Elves but I never actually bought a dragon. After playing some total war recently the idea of just getting a big old mage on a dragon isn’t unappealing... Just as a loremaster and some swordmasters are pretty appealing. 

In short; I understand it’s best to go without allies but, if I were to go for some allies, which units or armies tend to compliment the Deepkin?

(for reference I am a new player. My Deepkin consist of the battleforce and Start Collecting with one box of thralls, so I’ll print it below) 

1620 Deepkin:

[Heroes]

Akhelian King (General) - 240

Isharann Tidecaster - 100

Lotann - 100

Isharann Soulrender - 100

[Battlelines]

30 x Namarti Thralls - 360

3 x Morrsarr - 160

3 x Ishlaen - 140

[Other]

2 x Allopexes 

10 x Namarti Reavers 

 

Thanks for reading! 

[Double Misfire]

Hi @Shirayuri, and welcome to the forum.

I don't play Deepkin, and have very limited experience playing against them, so I'm probably not the best qualified to answer your post, but I'll give it a go.  

The way I see it, you've got three ways you could use Deepkin allies: the first two are plugging an obvious hole with units that fill a battlefield niche that Deepkin lack on their own, with hordes of cheap bodies or shooting; and the third is capitalising on Ionrach allies being able to benefit from Tides of Death, and taking a proper beatstick unit or character, able to maximise on a load of special rules it wouldn't normally have.

If you want cheap bodies to sit on a back field objectives, look no further than Wanderer/Wood Elf Eternal Guard. At 70 points for 10 they don't need a discount for being fielded in a larger unit, and weirdly work best in units of 10, due to being much more resilient when fully in cover. If you already have them, Black Arc Corsairs also wouldn't be a terrible choice.

If you feel your army's lacking ranged firepower then Waywatchers are probably the best value missile unit in the game, and more mobile than most other ranged stuff, which is handy when you're stuck playing with a missile fire constricting realmscape feature. Take three of them in 2000 points - they're allies, and so don't count against your maximum amount of leaders.

As far as beatsticks to take advantage of Tides of Death go, you're kind of spoilt for choice. If you're keen to take a dragon, a Dreadlord on Dragon's a solid choice (if you've got your heart set on the High Elf Dragon you can still use the same mini) - make sure to give him a shield for the rerollable save! A Hydra would also make a good, cheap beatstick, with points to spend on a couple of units of Corsiars. There are a lot of fast moving, had hitting Stormcast units (Fulminators are generally thought to be the best of the bunch), or you could always go for a couple of units of Evocators if you fancy slower moving hard hitting stuff.

Special mention for the Celestant Prime, who allies perfectly into most Order armies, and could probably do some very sneaky things with Tides of Death.

 

Hope this helps!

[Shirayuri]

12 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Hi @Shirayuri, and welcome to the forum.

I don't play Deepkin, and have very limited experience playing against them, so I'm probably not the best qualified to answer your post, but I'll give it a go.  

The way I see it, you've got three ways you could use Deepkin allies: the first two are plugging an obvious hole with units that fill a battlefield niche that Deepkin lack on their own, with hordes of cheap bodies or shooting; and the third is capitalising on Ionrach allies being able to benefit from Tides of Death, and taking a proper beatstick unit or character, able to maximise on a load of special rules it wouldn't normally have.

If you want cheap bodies to sit on a back field objectives, look no further than Wanderer/Wood Elf Eternal Guard. At 70 points for 10 they don't need a discount for being fielded in a larger unit, and weirdly work best in units of 10, due to being much more resilient when fully in cover. If you already have them, Black Arc Corsairs also wouldn't be a terrible choice.

If you feel your army's lacking ranged firepower then Waywatchers are probably the best value missile unit in the game, and more mobile than most other ranged stuff, which is handy when you're stuck playing with a missile fire constricting realmscape feature. Take three of them in 2000 points - they're allies, and so don't count against your maximum amount of leaders.

As far as beatsticks to take advantage of Tides of Death go, you're kind of spoilt for choice. If you're keen to take a dragon, a Dreadlord on Dragon's a solid choice (if you've got your heart set on the High Elf Dragon you can still use the same mini) - make sure to give him a shield for the rerollable save! A Hydra would also make a good, cheap beatstick, with points to spend on a couple of units of Corsiars. There are a lot of fast moving, had hitting Stormcast units (Fulminators are generally thought to be the best of the bunch), or you could always go for a couple of units of Evocators if you fancy slower moving hard hitting stuff.

Special mention for the Celestant Prime, who allies perfectly into most Order armies, and could probably do some very sneaky things with Tides of Death.

 

Hope this helps!

 

[Shirayuri]

@Double Misfire Thank you!

(apologies I accidentally quoted you and now can’t edit or delete the above)

i was looking at Waywatchers but Azyr warned me there were too many heroes and hence the list invalid. Any idea as to why? (They seem to could as heroes despite being allies)

dreadlord on dragon sounds super fun too! 

I noticed a Drakeseer with an Assassin would fill that 380 gap perfectly. Can you comment on either of those?

i managed to find a Lokhir Fellheart model and was desperate to use it, so I was thinking of calling him a fleet master and adding the corsairs and hydra but noticed that the hydra is actually Order Serpentis. Is the Kharibdyss any good? Should I go with a hydra even though it’s the wrong list? 

Thanks again!!

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Shirayuri said:

i was looking at Waywatchers but Azyr warned me there were too many heroes and hence the list invalid. Any idea as to why? (They seem to could as heroes despite being allies)

Page 310 of the Core Book under Allied units  - "They do count towards the number of Leader, Behemoth and artillery units".

[Double Misfire]

8 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Page 310 of the Core Book under Allied units  - "They do count towards the number of Leader, Behemoth and artillery units".

Wow, I've been playing that rule wrong for almost a year now. Thanks for the spot, boy is my face red! 

10 hours ago, Shirayuri said:

dreadlord on dragon sounds super fun too! 

I noticed a Drakeseer with an Assassin would fill that 380 gap perfectly. Can you comment on either of those?

i managed to find a Lokhir Fellheart model and was desperate to use it, so I was thinking of calling him a fleet master and adding the corsairs and hydra but noticed that the hydra is actually Order Serpentis. Is the Kharibdyss any good? Should I go with a hydra even though it’s the wrong list? 

Thanks again!!

The Drakeseer looks like he'd be loads of fun to use, but a 5+ save monster is going to get torn apart very early, especially when it doesn't benefit from the Deepkin's Forgotten Nightmares trait, and can be singled out by shooting. You'd be much better off paying 20 more points for a Dreadlord, but you could always build the dragon with an alternate rider and use the Draekseer in friendly games.

I've used an Assassin a few times myself and he's a fun (if not exactly game winning) hero. He does need a rend boosting artefact to stand a chance of doing any damage though, and as allies can't take artefacts, I think he's probably best left out of a Deepkin list.  

[Luke1705]

Based on what you have in your current list, I do agree that more actual Deepkin would probably be best. That being said, I might add 2 units of eternal guard (great backfield objective holders). As far as big stuff goes, the turtle really would fit nicely into your list (but then you’d have to exclude the eternal guard).

Some popular allied choices include: Drycha, Durthu, Evocators on dracolines (if those feel big enough), and then you run into the territory of stuff that doesn’t fit into your allies allotment like Morathi and Stardrakes

Oh also unrelated but reavers are battleline for Deepkin.

[Luke1705]

One other thing to remember is if you do go into an ally that you care about keeping alive, you could always use Ionrach to give them the protection of the Deepkin and the benefit of the tides table

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I haven't tried it out, but I've been partial to the idea of running Scourge Privateers as a first-line missile-shield. 200 points for 20 Corsairs and a Fleet Master leaves you with 180 left for another unit of your choosing (noting that the new General's Handbook is expected to raise the Morsarr to 180 or 200, so you want a little wiggle room in your list for that). While Corsairs may not benefit from Forgotten Nightmares, they still act as the "closest enemy unit" for Forgotten Nightmares, so are a pretty cheap meatshield for the rest of the army, while getting rr1s against attacks in the Shooting  phase. 5+ rr1s still isn't great, but it's better than your Namarti will have, unless you hide them with a Leviadon. 

Alternatively, you exactly have the points to fit a Leviadon in there, which is a pretty big defensive boost for your Namarti horde. 30 Namarti Thralls with a Soulrender and a Leviadon are pretty tough, especially if you make then Morphan. 

[Aelfric]

7 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Wow, I've been playing that rule wrong for almost a year now. Thanks for the spot, boy is my face red! 

I suspect there are very few amongst us that haven't misconceived some of the rules from time to time - I know I have.  

[flamingwalnut]

On 5/16/2019 at 5:47 AM, Double Misfire said:

Wow, I've been playing that rule wrong for almost a year now. Thanks for the spot, boy is my face red! 

Must be all that Ironweld Allegiance you've been playing.  Allies? Who needs allies!

As for the Deepkin, I like the idea of allies and Deepkin's Ionrach Conclave adds a really cool idea. Finding a monster or something that really works with their Tides of Death ability.

A Dragonlord might be your best bet for hammer. If you were more Magic heavy I'd suggest a Frostheart Phoenix.

For the Privateers, it's a solid plan. They will give you a turn and supplement your Namarti.  I'd be more concerned with damage at that point, though. Your eels are small and you don't have a lot of HEAVY hitters besides them.

 Be mindful of the "Allies can only be 1 in every 4 units". Hate that rule, but you have plenty of units.

Other than that, have fun! Would love to see some non-Deepkin painted up to join a Deepkin force. Could be fun!

[LillenS]

This is a list I have  played with great results.  It plays fairly good in most missions and have a answer to allot of things. It can push hard offensively but can also build a brick that slowly takes control of the board.  The 20 Sequitors is really fun to use with tides of death rule.  BUT this is´t a list that will go 5-0 at tournaments it´s more around 3-2 or 4-1 list. But with some luck you could squeeze out 5 wins with it.

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Ionrach
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Akhelian King (240)
- General
- Trait: Emissary of the Deep Places 
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Lore of the Deeps: Pressure of the Deep
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides

Battleline
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

Units
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
- Allies

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

 

How it plays is that Sequitors takes it on the chin and try to block of the opponent from charging the eels. Then the eels counter charge and clean up the mess. The Aspect with cogs (slow time = re-roll saves) and ethereal amulet is super tanky and he is my distraction unit that i launch (steeds of tides) in to my opponents face to tie up key units. He also has a sniping model spell that can be great against screens that is spread out or it forces the opponent to clump up more = less board space. Shackles is in there more to be a distraction. You put it out and get some mortal wounds out in your movement phase then your opponents has to waste a casting roll to get rid of it or hope that it wont affect his units in theirs movement phase.  This is one of the more fun list I have built my self and played.  I hope it could be to any help or inspiration for anyone to use.