AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Yoid]

To me everything seems to need a 10-20pts reduction to compete with what other armies offer, some people comment about our points being a first hint at AoS 3.0 general power going down, but that is not true if we look at DoK book that released the same time as ours. We get 10-40pts more cost in the units while them got 10-40pts less cost in similar performing units. This sky rocket our difference in a disparity of 20-80pts for most units, something that is completely insane (Biggest disparity is in heroes).

There is a few exceptions like Daemonettes, Fiends, Exalted Chariots/Bladebringers on Exalted Chariots and both types of Exalted Seekers that seem properly costed. Pre battletome i always defended an up in cost of Exalted Chariots and Bladebringers alongside a lower point cost for Daemonettes and Fiends, but now that Daemonettes generate DP and Fiends go down 10pts and generate DP i find them fine.

Then there is the Slaangor problem. Someone readed the profiles as if the three models got a Gilded Weapon or someone cannot remember that having 2 pincers dosn't mean using the combat profile of pincers twice. Even the generic rule of "Models with two pincers can reroll to hit rolls" would make sense. But in no world they can do work, and having them priced at 80-100pts without a warscroll rework would be a shame of a fix.

Summoning seems balanced so far, i don't see any problem with it yet. Maybe we got to wait until cheesy StD lists start to pop out. Even then it would not be the HoS fault.

I don't play Slaanesh for the rules, im not complaining to jumo into another army. I play Slaanesh because it connects with me at an emotional, psychological and aesthetical level. Been playing it with the ups and downs. Been playing it in Skirmishes campaigns (no Allegiance Abilities, no exploding 6s or summoning or locus) and im used to pay 120 pts for a guy that do as much as my opponent 80pts guy (and that now is gonna cost me 150 pts -_-). Im really pleased with the model releases and new troops archetypes and im gonna enjoy the hell out of them. But it seems obvious to me that the external balance respective to other Battletomes is all over the place, a tax that was not needed, probably born out of the fear of our past sins (the prenerfs last battletome).

"But a heavy Exalted Seeker list seems competitive" I agree a few (very few) of the models were correctly priced. But by far not most. And specially not the support heroes.

[frostfire]

Can’t see why people are arguing that Std units become useless in Slaanesh army. Since almost everything with hedonite keyword is crazily pricey, Std offers way cheaper options.
Is Std a bad army atm? I don’t think so. Losing exploding on 6s wouldn’t hurt too much because Std unit still get to their rerolls from Chaos Sorcerer Lord and the warshrine.

Maybe a pleasurebound slaanesh with Archaon could be great.

[CeleFAZE]

3 hours ago, frostfire said:

Can’t see why people are arguing that Std units become useless in Slaanesh army. Since almost everything with hedonite keyword is crazily pricey, Std offers way cheaper options.
Is Std a bad army atm? I don’t think so. Losing exploding on 6s wouldn’t hurt too much because Std unit still get to their rerolls from Chaos Sorcerer Lord and the warshrine.

Maybe a pleasurebound slaanesh with Archaon could be great.

Originally I was kind of doom and gloom about the loss of euphoric killers on non-hedonites, but I've been warming up to it. It creates a very real choice when it comes to unit selection: do you pick the unit that integrates more fully into our abilities but is priced at a premium for it, or do you select the less expensive option that is still not terrible on its own, but trades opportunities for force multiplication for additional opportunities to generate depravity by virtue of being able to field more units? There really is a place for both I feel, and the real work to be done with this book is to find the balance points between the two.

Having crunched the numbers, I wager that units for the only purpose of depravity generation that serve no other ancillary purpose aren't going to be a worthwhile investment. I spent a few hours puzzling out how to make a "torture pit" of chaos spawns that are intentionally harmed by friendly abilities work efficiently, and there's really no good way to ensure that you can do so for the 2 guaranteed turns of survival necessary to make their points back, much less at a net gain. However, it seems worthwhile to have more smaller units that can contribute in other ways, like marauder horsemen harassing and providing board control, or chaos warriors who are unlikely to die in a single round of combat sitting on objectives while the killier units go out to play.

For this reason I think there is still a "right" way to utilize BoC and S2D units in a beneficial manner, and I look forward to testing things out when I finally have a chance to throw some dice again.

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, CeleFAZE said:

Originally I was kind of doom and gloom about the loss of euphoric killers on non-hedonites, but I've been warming up to it. It creates a very real choice when it comes to unit selection: do you pick the unit that integrates more fully into our abilities but is priced at a premium for it, or do you select the less expensive option that is still not terrible on its own, but trades opportunities for force multiplication for additional opportunities to generate depravity by virtue of being able to field more units? There really is a place for both I feel, and the real work to be done with this book is to find the balance points between the two.

Having crunched the numbers, I wager that units for the only purpose of depravity generation that serve no other ancillary purpose aren't going to be a worthwhile investment. I spent a few hours puzzling out how to make a "torture pit" of chaos spawns that are intentionally harmed by friendly abilities work efficiently, and there's really no good way to ensure that you can do so for the 2 guaranteed turns of survival necessary to make their points back, much less at a net gain. However, it seems worthwhile to have more smaller units that can contribute in other ways, like marauder horsemen harassing and providing board control, or chaos warriors who are unlikely to die in a single round of combat sitting on objectives while the killier units go out to play.

For this reason I think there is still a "right" way to utilize BoC and S2D units in a beneficial manner, and I look forward to testing things out when I finally have a chance to throw some dice again.

Yeah, I feel the same as you - at first I was a bit disappointed we lost EK on our auxiliary troops, but thinking about it now it was likely to give us the choice between cheap units and powerful units - after all, Hedonites should be the best of Slaanesh as they're more devoted than S2D. 

I think Chaos Warriors will see a real place in some lists as screens and home territory holders that do something even when they're doing very little.

I also think you're right about torture pits just for DP; I remember running something like that in the Syll'Esske host where I'd run over a load of cheap chariots and whip them with an artefact and a spell to generate like 40-something DP. It worked for DP generation but as the models used were a bit useless after taking the damage (and, tbf, before taking the damage too) it left me in a position where I may have well taken the KoS to begin with. 

7 hours ago, Yoid said:

To me everything seems to need a 10-20pts reduction to compete with what other armies offer, some people comment about our points being a first hint at AoS 3.0 general power going down, but that is not true if we look at DoK book that released the same time as ours. We get 10-40pts more cost in the units while them got 10-40pts less cost in similar performing units. This sky rocket our difference in a disparity of 20-80pts for most units, something that is completely insane (Biggest disparity is in heroes).

There is a few exceptions like Daemonettes, Fiends, Exalted Chariots/Bladebringers on Exalted Chariots and both types of Exalted Seekers that seem properly costed. Pre battletome i always defended an up in cost of Exalted Chariots and Bladebringers alongside a lower point cost for Daemonettes and Fiends, but now that Daemonettes generate DP and Fiends go down 10pts and generate DP i find them fine.

Then there is the Slaangor problem. Someone readed the profiles as if the three models got a Gilded Weapon or someone cannot remember that having 2 pincers dosn't mean using the combat profile of pincers twice. Even the generic rule of "Models with two pincers can reroll to hit rolls" would make sense. But in no world they can do work, and having them priced at 80-100pts without a warscroll rework would be a shame of a fix.

Summoning seems balanced so far, i don't see any problem with it yet. Maybe we got to wait until cheesy StD lists start to pop out. Even then it would not be the HoS fault.

I don't play Slaanesh for the rules, im not complaining to jumo into another army. I play Slaanesh because it connects with me at an emotional, psychological and aesthetical level. Been playing it with the ups and downs. Been playing it in Skirmishes campaigns (no Allegiance Abilities, no exploding 6s or summoning or locus) and im used to pay 120 pts for a guy that do as much as my opponent 80pts guy (and that now is gonna cost me 150 pts -_-). Im really pleased with the model releases and new troops archetypes and im gonna enjoy the hell out of them. But it seems obvious to me that the external balance respective to other Battletomes is all over the place, a tax that was not needed, probably born out of the fear of our past sins (the prenerfs last battletome).

"But a heavy Exalted Seeker list seems competitive" I agree a few (very few) of the models were correctly priced. But by far not most. And specially not the support heroes.

I get you, and once we've all had a few games after seeing our new stuff in action, I think we can all make an effort to discuss the exact changes we want to see and relay that to the design team. If we're lucky and they feel we've relayed our points well enough, I can see us getting something small in the summer FAQ to fix points if they need it 

That said, while you could well be right about the external balance of the faction, I think with all of the discussion about what units are and aren't good being about different units each time our internal balance seems great at the moment. To me, this is what matters in the long run; external balance can change very quickly with FAQs and is more noticeable to the designers and so I'm not too worried about our high points cost because they'll either be worth it or they'll be temporary. I would be much more concerned if we had one unit that everyone agreed was heads and tails above the rest.

[Enoby]

Another list idea, one I'm a bit more confident in:

Invaders (Lurid Haze - because why not)

150 Lord of Pain - General with Haze artefact and CT

200 Syll'Esske - General 

150 Lord of Pain or Shardspeaker (not general but still can't decide. Battle Rapture would be on Shardspeaker) with Rod of Misrule

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

340 10 Twinsouls 

170 5 Twinsouls

150 5 Painbringers 

150 5 painbringers 

140 Seeker Cavalcade 

140 Nobles of Excess

1990, 110 wounds

2CP 

Alternatively I could lose Nobles of Excess and swap it out for Supreme Sybarites (not idea imo) or get a Lord of Pain and Shardspeaker.

We have four drops and so will probably be forced to go first. That's fine because we can provide threat at first turn. We don't want to use the Lurid Haze teleport with the twin souls as they lose their hero phase ability, but depending on the battleplan we can afford to teleport a unit of 5 painbringers behind them. These painbringers are only to be there if there's an objective on the battlefield behind enemy lines. The important thing is that they're off the board and so can't be shot or magicked if the opponent goes first. Mostly, the use of this is a pschological threat - a promise that if they take first turn we can kill backline squishies or shooters so they have to leave something behind, or if we go first they either have to shoot that unit or charge into it. They're a distraction carnifex that can threaten anywhere; the more it freaks the opponent out, the better.

Slickblades are on the flank and must be accompanied by Syll'Esske's command ability. Go for whichever side is the most vulnerable and harass them. You can make a 6" pile in from 24" on a run of 4+. Do not overextend; if the unit you're going into is dangerous, only go in if you know you can make it with enough stuff. 

The Twinsould and the other unit of Painbringers are used to cap objectives with the unit of 10 used to go into something scary. With the LoP's support. 

The point of the list is to harass the opponent and then summon to keep bringing the pressure. Either they divide themselves and you snip them off, or they clump into the middle and you beat them down with a constant threat. 

Anyone got any thoughts on this list? 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Enoby

[whispersofblood]

35 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Another list idea, one I'm a bit more confident in:

Invaders (Lurid Haze - because why not)

150 Lord of Pain - General with Haze artefact and CT

200 Syll'Esske - General 

150 Lord of Pain or Shardspeaker (not general but still can't decide. Battle Rapture would be on Shardspeaker) with Rod of Misrule

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

340 10 Twinsouls 

170 5 Twinsouls

150 5 Painbringers 

150 5 painbringers 

140 Seeker Cavalcade 

140 Nobles of Excess

1990, 110 wounds

2CP 

I worry you don't have the model count to make any of this matter. I think pretty soon players will realize that it's better to not charge HoS so as to limit the ability of the army to charge. 

I see this list being screened quite a bit even by units that may want to fight so that your DP returns are two turns removed. I think with this sort of set up you need to be able to get on the objectives very early and force the opponent to fight you off them. 

With that in mind what changes would you make?

[Enoby]

24 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

I worry you don't have the model count to make any of this matter. I think pretty soon players will realize that it's better to not charge HoS so as to limit the ability of the army to charge. 

I see this list being screened quite a bit even by units that may want to fight so that your DP returns are two turns removed. I think with this sort of set up you need to be able to get on the objectives very early and force the opponent to fight you off them. 

With that in mind what changes would you make?

Yeah, you raise some good points. Unfortunately the only player I have to test it against atm plays Chaos Dwarves and they're, well, a bit below the curve to say the least. 

I wouldn't mind getting rid of a LoP/shardspeaker the Nobles battalion for 290 points of screen remover; it's what that screen remover should be. Marauders and  daemonettes are an option (20 of marauders thrown in right at the start using Lurid Haze, and if using marauders bring 10 daemonettes too for 270 pts). Or alternatively I go more on just making my opponent come to me. I wouldn't benefit from the nobles battalion then (because I wouldn't be charging enough to make it worth it and I've given up first turn choice anyway). With 8" move, twinsouls can get to objectives pretty quickly depending on the battleplan. For stuff like shifting objectives, it'll be absolutely 0 issue, but it would be an issue for ones that are in the opponent's territory.   

I'd really have to play around and find out. I think 20 marauders and 10 daemonettes (with the marauder priority) could apply pressure early. It also wouldn't be a bad idea to lose a unit of painbringers and swap out for another 20 marauders. Probably in 2 units as no bonus from Euphoric Killers anymore. 

With that in mind, maybe something more like this would work:

Invaders (Lurid Haze - because why not)

150 Lord of Pain - General with Haze artefact and CT

200 Syll'Esske - General 

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

200 5 Slickglaive Seekers 

340 10 Twinsouls 

170 5 Twinsouls

150 5 painbringers 

160 20 marauders 

160 20 marauders 

110 10 daemonettes (or maybe a CSL to hold my rod of misrule and buff marauders if both units don't make it through the haze)

140 Seeker Cavalcade 

1980 pts, 145 wounds (or 140 wounds with a CSL), 82 models, 10 units

+1CP 

The unit of 5 painbringers don't need to be there and tbh could just be upgraded to twinsouls or more marauders but, well, I like the look of them

Edited February 16, 2021 by Enoby

[Nasrod]

3 part post.

1. Conversion of a Keeper

2. List, fluff, general ideas.

3. The questions I have/input I am looking for.

 

1. Conversion Corner

 

I stole the Reddit post idea to kit out a Keeper of Secrets with a Mindstealer Sphiranx head, but made some judgment calls. Namey, to splice the back half of a Keeper's skull onto the Mindstealer.

 

https://imgur.com/a/5l93W9L

Just need to green stuff the rest of the bracelet to hide the magnet, clean up the connection to the cloak, smooth out some minor deformities, and wait for proper weather to prime. Huge pain but also a huge relief to see it coming together.

 

---

 

2. List idea/Tactics

 

So the idea is that the gang above are being led by a Mindstealer Sphiranx. The end of the journey will supposedly involve the summoning of a notorious Keeper of Secrets capable of turning the tide in the region and ushering in a huge wave of worshippers. Naturally, that Keeper being summoned is top priority to the gameplan of the list:

 

Glutos - ???

Syll'esske - 200

Chaos Lord on Karakdarak - 230 (General)

 

Chaos Warrior x 5 - 80

Chaos Warrior x 5 - 80

Blissbarb Archers x 11 - ???

 

Slickblade Seekers x 5 - ???

Blissbarb Seekers x 5 - ???

Chaos Knights x 5 - 160

Fiends x 3 - 180

 

Mindstealer Sphiranx - 100

 

1970/2000 (Masking points of new units since we are still in preorder. Don't want to break any rules.)

 

Strategically, it is pretty loose. Syll'esske, the Fiends, and the Slickblade Seekers form the main spearhead. Chaos Lord on Karak and his 5 Knights ride together to be a nuisance. The Archers do what they can to rake in depravity and make the opponent decide between wiping them out or focusing the fast cavalry bearing down on them.

 

After the Keeper hits turn 3 or so (Too many S2D forces to get him on 2 I think, but that should be okay) the remnants of the forces pull together for a final hurrah and likely get tabled down to the last 10% of the list by turn 4. Hopefully at that point a contingent of Seekers coming in on 4 or 5 can be a final push to snag an objective or two.

 

The warriors serve as a battleline tax and a means of serving as speed bumps for home objectives.

 

Also despite being more of a mascot than a legitimate threat, the Mindstealer getting a fight last on a target in this list seems legitimately back breaking.  For 100 points it is a gamble, but one I don't feel beholden to. 

--

 

3. Halp

 

Need advice on

 

1) faction allegiance (Invaders Lurid Haze? Godseekers? Idk). Lost here because I see justification for all of them, which worries me. Godseekers for the Depravity points on Charge seems very spicy.

 

2) Spells, Traits, Artes. Is the Chaos Lord on Karak eligible for artes/traits if he is a Slaanesh-marked General? If not, a unit of cavalry will have to be cut somewhere and that hurts my heart.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Nasrod
Formatting clean up, fixed imgur link.

[whispersofblood]

@Enoby

I'm not sure I can get this to work 😅 but lets work it out logically it might be there and I just cant see it.

1. Get onto objectives or at least the well over the midfield: Maybe 2x10 Twinsouls? Mv8+ Run satisfy that need to control the board and take aggressive positions.

2. I think 5 painbringers can probably hold an objective against a lot so as a follow up unit they are probably decent.

3. The next question is if you aren't charged how do you generate enough damage over turns 2 and 3 to win the game?

4. I think you need to summon bodies, which means generating DP... So at least one unit of Blissbarbs of some variety seems necessary, so what if you took blissbarb seekers instead of slickblades?

5. Marauders are probably best, but Daemonettes might fit the points better as the flanking lighter troops

See if you can make that work with what you are picturing?

[Nasrod]

@Enoby

Piggybacking off Whispers something like

-20 Marauders

-5 Slickblades

-Cavalcade Bat

(+500 points)

+11 Blissbarb Archers

+5 Blissbarb Seekers

+5 Twinsouls (So that you have 2 units of 10)

(-510 points)

 

Puts you at 1990/2000? I know most frown on cutting batts but our units are expensive and you aren't able to capitalize on the extra artefact nor does it put you down in total drops for any competitive merit.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by Nasrod

[Enoby]

5 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

@Enoby

I'm not sure I can get this to work 😅 but lets work it out logically it might be there and I just cant see it.

1. Get onto objectives or at least the well over the midfield: Maybe 2x10 Twinsouls? Mv8+ Run satisfy that need to control the board and take aggressive positions.

2. I think 5 painbringers can probably hold an objective against a lot so as a follow up unit they are probably decent.

3. The next question is if you aren't charged how do you generate enough damage over turns 2 and 3 to win the game?

4. I think you need to summon bodies, which means generating DP... So at least one unit of Blissbarbs of some variety seems necessary, so what if you took blissbarb seekers instead of slickblades?

5. Marauders are probably best, but Daemonettes might fit the points better as the flanking lighter troops

See if you can make that work with what you are picturing?

Thanks - I'd definitely need to try out the list first to see what's what 😛

As for DP, it's not that I don't have a plan if I don't get charged, but rather I don't mind if they charge me (on the objective or I'll charge them). With a Lord of Pain, 10 Twin Souls do considerable damage (about 19 against a 4+ save without needing a charge), but not enough that it will wipe out a horde and that's fine (more dp). Theoretically, the units that should be charging on turn 1 or 2 are the marauders (hopefully both but at least one), and the Slickglaives piling in. The rest of the stuff is the second wave. So between 2/10 to 4/10 units should make a first turn charge if I'm forced to go first. 

I'm still unsure how I feel about the blissbarbs on foot. I think they seem good on paper but I'm worried they'd be shot away. The ones on seeker I'm a bit more confident with at 20 wounds, but I wouldn't take the battalion with them (the piling in just doesn't really help). 

I'd test with marauders and daemonettes to see how it goes; I have more faith in marauders making the first turn charge, which is the big decider. 

6 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

@Enoby

Piggybacking off Whispers something like

-20 Marauders

-5 Slickblades

-Cavalcade Bat

(+500 points)

+11 Blissbarb Archers

+5 Blissbarb Seekers

+5 Twinsouls (So that you have 2 units of 10)

(-510 points)

 

Puts you at 1990/2000? I know most frown on cutting batts but our units are expensive and you aren't able to capitalize on the extra artefact nor does it put you down in total drops for any competitive merit.  

Thanks

I think, if I was to get rid of the battalion, I'd probably lose the other unit of Slickglaives too. I'd try them first, but I think their main use is the 6" pile in and the things that can be done with that. In your suggestion, I may well switch them out for the 20 marauders you suggest losing if the glaives sans battlion don't perform well in a test. 

I would like to try two units of 10 twin souls, likely both near the LoP for the CA when it's possible.

I definitely think these are all variations of the list I want to test, and unfortunately mathshammer isn't great for this army because there's a lot more to consider (like movement and enemy types). 

[ibel]

Sry, i didnt see Any List at all.

Everything ist 15-25% too Expensive, for eneugh DP u Need to go to 2-3 Shooting Units. The knew Kavallerie is cool but to expensive and to easy to kill AND had a BraveryProblem.

The biggest looser are (after the Gors) the Painbringers. Oh man, not as good as Chaos Choosen or Allariell Heartguards but more Expensive.... so what a ******. I am really pist.

I ran a Syllsk Daemonsteel Legion with 3 Soulgrinders, GO, Sigvald and Dämonetts against Tzeenth Arcanits List. Was okay, I win in Round 3 by tabeling in Round 4. But i every competaitve List will kill me instant.

So what we will build against SeraLordKroak? against Dropping KO? Jumping Changehost or MorathiSnakebomb?!

I feel very sad I hat to think this Batteltome will maximal be T3 Maybe T4 without Pointreduze. 

(sry 4 my bad Englisch )

[Enoby]

50 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

Need advice on

 

1) faction allegiance (Invaders Lurid Haze? Godseekers? Idk). Lost here because I see justification for all of them, which worries me. Godseekers for the Depravity points on Charge seems very spicy.

 

2) Spells, Traits, Artes. Is the Chaos Lord on Karak eligible for artes/traits if he is a Slaanesh-marked General? If not, a unit of cavalry will have to be cut somewhere and that hurts my heart.

Just to check first, do you see this more as a narrative list or a competitive list

[Nasrod]

36 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Just to check first, do you see this more as a narrative list or a competitive list

Probably casual beer and pretzels type list. If anyone breaks out The Big 3 I will turn to OBR or DoK. Ideas for a more competitive list down the road would likely require even more pain on the wallet, hence looking to use the Start Collecting S2D as an 80 dollar stopgap for 550ish easy points. 

 

Edit: For additional reference I literally don't expect to ever summon more than 1 Keeper and 1 small unit of Seekers or on a lucky day 3 Fiends. So no huge optimization worries at this time. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Nasrod

[Carnith]

Man Hedonite facebook is a wild place to be

[Third]

5 minutes ago, Carnith said:

Man Hedonite facebook is a wild place to be

How so?

[whispersofblood]

This is basically what I've figured out so far for a "competitive" HoS build. 

Invaders- Lurid Haze

Glutos - 400 (general)

Doombull - 100 (general)

Doombull - 100 (General)

Doombull - 100

Great Bray-Shaman - 100 w/ rod of misrule

Great Bray-Shaman - 100 w/oil of exultation

10 Gors

10 Gors

10 Gors

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Bestigor

10 Bestigor

10 Bestigor

The Depraved Drove

Doomblast Dirgehorn

The Burning Head

Mesmerising Mirror

Basically a 2 drop that is about generating DP, controlling the board, and holding objectives. The key is just turning up the pressure from turn 1 and crippling my opponents units systematically.

[Carnith]

12 minutes ago, Third said:

How so?

You either got posts of how "its the best book ever" to "its utter trash" with some people having no nuance at all. 

[Nasrod]

1 minute ago, whispersofblood said:

Sad snip

Probably one of the best lists and the reason my Slaanesh is strictly rule of cool. 2 battletomes and 2 model release waves and players are looking toward a Slaanesh centerpiece cooperating with Beasts of Chaos.

And the actual dedicated Beastmen sculpt is unplayable in it. No excuse for people taking their frustrations out on other posters here but this is such a crystallized example of why jimmies were rustled...

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Carnith said:

You either got posts of how "its the best book ever" to "its utter trash" with some people having no nuance at all. 

If Slaangors dropped a point for every hot take, they'd be worth taking

Edited February 16, 2021 by Enoby

[whispersofblood]

Just now, Nasrod said:

Probably one of the best lists and the reason my Slaanesh is strictly rule of cool. 2 battletomes and 2 model release waves and players are looking toward a Slaanesh centerpiece cooperating with Beasts of Chaos.

And the actual dedicated Beastmen sculpt is unplayable in it. No excuse for people taking their frustrations out on other posters here but this is such a crystallized example of why jimmies were rustled...

Yup pretty much, and if Glutos didn't come with a 3+ save I probably wouldn't include him either. I was working on a Depraved Drove list before I moved to LRL so I'm pretty familiar with how it would game, but yeah its not terrific. Maybe I'll throw it into a TTS event at some point. I think Johnnys can find a build they like, but Timmys and Spikes are definitely hurting. 

[Carnith]

1 minute ago, Enoby said:

If Slaangors dropped a point for every hot take, they'd be worth taking

Ain't that the truth. Like I've seen "this unit literally wins the entire game" to "nothing is good at all". It's boggling. Like honestly, points are the thing. 20-30 down nearly everywhere, and it's good. 
I thought of some of the math and the whole "our units summon! that's why we're expensive!" doesn't add up for me anymore. Every unit summons and contributes to that. So what from our AA do our units uniquely get that can't be gained by bringing in slaves? Locus and double taps on 6's, and that doesn't feel like an appropriate cost increase.

Listening to HeyWoah go over the battle tome, a lot of his commentary is "good warscroll... should be 160? 200?! Oh nevermind"
Glutos, Shalaxi, and Masque were on his list of units points and theme appropriately. 

[Carnith]

12 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

This is basically what I've figured out so far for a "competitive" HoS build. 

Invaders- Lurid Haze

Glutos - 400 (general)

Doombull - 100 (general)

Doombull - 100 (General)

Doombull - 100

Great Bray-Shaman - 100 w/ rod of misrule

Great Bray-Shaman - 100 w/oil of exultation

10 Gors

10 Gors

10 Gors

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Bestigor

10 Bestigor

10 Bestigor

The Depraved Drove

Doomblast Dirgehorn

The Burning Head

Mesmerising Mirror

Basically a 2 drop that is about generating DP, controlling the board, and holding objectives. The key is just turning up the pressure from turn 1 and crippling my opponents units systematically.

What is Glutos doing in this list? Or is he just for the casting? Cause some of his buffs are locked to Mortal Hedonite. 

[Drib]

Spoiler

18 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

This is basically what I've figured out so far for a "competitive" HoS build. 

Invaders- Lurid Haze

Glutos - 400 (general)

Doombull - 100 (general)

Doombull - 100 (General)

Doombull - 100

Great Bray-Shaman - 100 w/ rod of misrule

Great Bray-Shaman - 100 w/oil of exultation

10 Gors

10 Gors

10 Gors

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Bestigor

10 Bestigor

10 Bestigor

The Depraved Drove

Doomblast Dirgehorn

The Burning Head

Mesmerising Mirror

Basically a 2 drop that is about generating DP, controlling the board, and holding objectives. The key is just turning up the pressure from turn 1 and crippling my opponents units systematically.

 

You have too many Heroes. Depraved Drove is 1-4 Heroes. So maybe you want to exchange the Doombull and The Burning Head with a Cygor or more Bestigors.

For now, you don't need endless spells to kill your own models, as you can break coherence to generate DP.

 

 

[whispersofblood]

10 minutes ago, Carnith said:

What is Glutos doing in this list? Or is he just for the casting? Cause some of his buffs are locked to Mortal Hedonite. 

Depends on the board, if people leave gaps he gets deployed up the board as a bully unit on a 2+ generating DP and stopping people's movement, also he can cast the mirror up field turn 1.
He is also good in a variety of Battleplans

 

3 minutes ago, Drib said:

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You have too many Heroes. Depraved Drove is 1-4 Heroes. So maybe you want to exchange the Doombull and The Burning Head with a Cygor or more Bestigors.

For now, you don't need endless spells to kill your own models, as you can break coherence to generate DP.

 

 

You're right! Totally forgot about the 1-4, yeah it is just a draft afterall. I'd probably go with more Bestigor if I'm honest.