Khorne Command Ability Leave None Alive

[Fluttershy]

I'm a little bit confused by the wording of the Command Ability Leave None Alive.

Doesn't any model of the REAPERS OF VENGEANCE DAEMON unit count towards wholly within 8" of a friendly DAEMON model ?

**the intention could have been Daemon Hero or Hero.. or Reapers of Vengeance unit within Daemon or Hero.. !?..**

What's the meaning of "DEAMON model with this command ability" ? Since all Reaper of Vengeance DEAMON models should have this ability!? or not?

[Vextol]

6 hours ago, King Taloren said:

Skarbrand cannot use command ability himself because he is not allowed to have the ability,  because he is a unique character.  He would require another demon unit nearby to activate the ability to place on him.

I don't believe this is true. Named heros cannot have artifacts and command traits but nowhere does it ever state a named character cannot use a command ability.  

[Fluttershy]

6 minutes ago, Aeon said:

It means if you have a mortal (ie non-Daemon) model then it won’t be able to use that Command Ability (implying that only Hero’s can activate Command Abilities - unsure if that is spelt out somewhere in the rules.)

Core Rules Page 3

COMMAND ABILITIES

If you have any Heroes in your army, you can use command abilities. [..]

 

"Heroes in your army" does not state only Heroes can use Command Abilities. Most Command Abilities are usable by Heroes only, because it's stated in the Ability itself.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Fluttershy

[ChaosLord]

1 hour ago, Vextol said:

I don't believe this is true. Named heros cannot have artifacts and command traits but nowhere does it ever state a named character cannot use a command ability.  

Good point. Leave None Alive is the Command Ability, not the Command Trait (Mage Eater), which Skarbrand could not get... but any hero can use Command Abilities, right?

[Vextol]

8 hours ago, ChaosLord said:

Good point. Leave None Alive is the Command Ability, not the Command Trait (Mage Eater), which Skarbrand could not get... but any hero can use Command Abilities, right?

Yes. 

[Deceiver]

On 5/11/2019 at 2:11 AM, King Taloren said:

Skarbrand cannot use command ability himself because he is not allowed to have the ability,  because he is a unique character.  He would require another demon unit nearby to activate the ability to place on him.

It is not true because named unique characters are not allowed to have other command traits and artefacts, not command ability. In cases of some unique character(as Aventis), their sub-faction is fixed so cannot take other sub-faction's command ability. But if a unique character have no fixed sub-faction, it will be chosen sub-faction of the army during the game.

Therefore, you can use 'Leave None Alive' with Skarbrand.

[Aeon]

It means if you have a mortal (ie non-Daemon) model then it won’t be able to use that Command Ability (implying that only Hero’s can activate Command Abilities - unsure if that is spelt out somewhere in the rules.)

[Aeon]

Yay for being spelt out (assumes it was the case however :))

[King Taloren]

Probably a small oversight. I doubt that we will see a non hero have a command ability. If that is a generic Warband Command ability I believe you will find that it can only be added to any Reapers of Vengence Daemon Hero in a Khorne army at the top of the page where is talks about command abilities for to choose for Khorne.

[Fluttershy]

2 hours ago, King Taloren said:

I believe you will find that it can only be added to any Reapers of Vengence Daemon Hero in a Khorne army at the top of the page where is talks about command abilities for to choose for Khorne.

I looks like FEC's Grand Courts..

[King Taloren]

I’m guessing that unless there is some other additional rule back up where it talks about the special rules for picking your Khorne warband, any of your Darmon Heroes can use the ability not just your general then. Least that is all I can see RAW at the moment. It’s like getting a free realm ability to use.

[Fluttershy]

but there is no existent rule only Heroes can use Command Abilities!?

Core Rules Page 3

COMMAND ABILITIES

If you have any Heroes in your army, you can use command abilities. [..] In order to use any command ability you must spend 1 command point. [..]

"any Heroes in your army" doesn't even need to have them on the battlefield..

[Isotop]

47 minutes ago, Fluttershy said:

but there is no existent rule only Heroes can use Command Abilities!?

Core Rules Page 3

COMMAND ABILITIES

If you have any Heroes in your army, you can use command abilities. [..] In order to use any command ability you must spend 1 command point. [..]

"any Heroes in your army" doesn't even need to have them on the battlefield..

I think you are correct. Command abilities are never "used" by heroes. For most abilities, heroes are a point of reference for measurements, but that is all.

[King Taloren]

I’m still leaning that this was a bad oversight on Games Workshop not to include Hero in the ability’s wording.

I don’t think there is a non-hero unit in the game that posesses a command ability. And 99% reference the model in question when using a command ability.

It does create an interesting question if GWs intent was to have Command abilities only be on heroes or if this is the first instance that is not the case?

Sure RAW it can be interpreted that command abilities can be used (and by used I mean the command ability is activated, I do not mean the actual use of the ability) by anyone though then why is it stated that you need a hero to use abilities?

Either way sent this to AoS faq cause it really needs an official answer.

Edited March 25, 2019 by King Taloren

[Drib]

Spoiler

17 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

I’m still leaning that this was a bad oversight on Games Workshop not to include Hero in the ability’s wording.

I don’t think there is a non-hero unit in the game that posesses a command ability. And 99% reference the model in question when using a command ability.

It does create an interesting question if GWs intent was to have Command abilities only be on heroes or if this is the first instance that is not the case?

Sure RAW it can be interpreted that command abilities can be used (and by used I mean the command ability is activated, I do not mean the actual use of the ability) by anyone though then why is it stated that you need a hero to use abilities?

 

Beasts of Chaos' Gavespawn has the "Propagator of Devolution" Command Ability that's messured  from a "GAVESPAWN CHAOS SPAWN"

[EMMachine]

I think I see a future Errata in that case too.

An interesting point about the FEC mentioning of @Fluttershy

In case of Grand Courts there is only one Grand Court not referring to a hero and that is the Morgaunts Command Ability "Heaving Masses".

The strange part is, GW uses similar wording in case of FEC Command Abilities like for those new Slaughterhosts (but in case of FEC the wording is often used on Warscrolls.

@Drib

Good point, a Chaos Spawn isn't a hero, and still it is the focus of the Command Ability.

[ChaosLord]

Just to clarify, in this case, if I have Skarbrand, and he's not near another daemon hero, he can still use the command ability and apply it to himself, correct? And this works even if Skarbrand is not the general?

[ChaosLord]

1 minute ago, King Taloren said:

Skarbrand cannot use command ability himself because he is not allowed to have the ability,  because he is a unique character.  He would require another demon unit nearby to activate the ability to place on him.

Ok, that makes sense, thanks. But a regular Bloodthrister could do it, right? Sorry, I'm new, building a Khorne army.

[BaylorCorvette]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:22 AM, King Taloren said:

I’m guessing that unless there is some other additional rule back up where it talks about the special rules for picking your Khorne warband, any of your Darmon Heroes can use the ability not just your general then. Least that is all I can see RAW at the moment. It’s like getting a free realm ability to use.

Not to necro this thread, but I just want to confirm that this is in fact the case that every Khorne Daemon (that isn't a named Character) can use the Reapers of Vengeance command ability "Leave None Alive" and not just your general?

[NoobGamer]

When u use "leave none alive" on an opponents combat turn, do u get to attack first then attack again?

[EMMachine]

16 hours ago, NoobGamer said:

When u use "leave none alive" on an opponents combat turn, do u get to attack first then attack again?

After the ability lets you attack "immediatly" after the first time, yes.

[King Taloren]

Yes a regular hero doesn’t have the same restrictions as a named/unique hero does.

[King Taloren]

21 minutes ago, ChaosLord said:

Just to clarify, in this case, if I have Skarbrand, and he's not near another daemon hero, he can still use the command ability and apply it to himself, correct? And this works even if Skarbrand is not the general?

Skarbrand cannot use command ability himself because he is not allowed to have the ability,  because he is a unique character.  He would require another demon unit nearby to activate the ability to place on him.

Edited May 10, 2019 by King Taloren