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the_prophecy

Neferata and Command ability

Question

Can i Stack Neferata s Command ability Twilights allure? According to the wording iam Not sure. Ruleswise you can Stack Command abilities i think 

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2 hours ago, King Taloren said:

I don’t believe it is stackable because it is an effect that simply gives a -1 to all enemy units in her range.

Waaagh! is also an effect that simply gives a modifier to units in range. Why would it be different with Twilight’s Allure?

2 hours ago, King Taloren said:

 There isn’t anything in there faqs to say no explicitly.

You mean the rules do not stop Twilight’s Allure from stacking? Then why do you think so?

2 hours ago, King Taloren said:

(Really GW needs to print out a list of every ability that stacks...)

Ruleswise there isn’t really a precident on which abilities are stackable or not. 

Every single ability allready tells us wether it does or does not stack. Why would we need such a list?

2 hours ago, King Taloren said:

Lords of tide is stackable and waugh but not certain other abilities.

These "certain other abilities" do not stack because their rules text tells us so. Maybe you could name some abilities that do not have a clear wording?

2 hours ago, King Taloren said:

Though in most cases it appears that things that don’t stack involve saves, modifying dice and similar abilities that change results.

Again, abilities state wether they do or do not stack. There is no bases for your interpretation which abilities appear to be stackable.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

 @Isotop swear how I read what you say is just trying to pick apart everything you possibly can just to show your superior attitude...

 Seems you only show your face around when you don’t like what I say.

Show me a rule that says when it stacks or not in the rules. Please. Most of the rules being discussed are still from 1.0 before command points and stacking and GW has only stated whether a few of them work at all.  And then there isn’t really a rhyme or reason hat can really be deferred from them.

I am picking it apart (and showing my face) because you keep telling (possibly new) players plainly wrong stuff - and I do not think this is okay.

You say yourself that Waaagh! (for example) is stackable. How is Twilight’s Allure any different from Waaagh!? You really get it backwards when you say there has to be a clear statement that an ability is stackable. In fact it is the other way around - an ability will stack if it does not say otherwise. Would you say the Warchanter´s Frenzy of Violence does not stack (it does not explicitly say that is stacks)? I guess not. There is nothing in the rules stopping abilities like Twilight’s Allure to stack. You use the ability once. The effect happens. You use it a second time. The effect happens again. If there is no contradiciton in the double application of an effect, why should we think it is unstackable?

Edited by Isotop

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3 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

That isn’t what kind asked. I asked you to show a command ability that explicitly states it does not stack in the books that isn’t placed in an afterthought FAQ.

Let’s Get Bouncing! (Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig) is such a command ability and was recently discussed in this forum. The more common example is the usage of "any" in description of an ability. Twilight’s Allure could for example say "models affected by any instance of this ability recieve X". We find this kind of wording in a lot of abilities. If you want a list, feel free to ask.

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surprisingly it looks like it's possible..

cleaned_IMG_3427.jpg.df65e2b320bd8c5c05a69ebba595fe7f.jpg

 

Warhammer Age of Sigmar – Core Rules, Designers’ Commentary Page 4

Q: Can I spend 2 or more command points to allow the same model to use the same command ability more than once in the same phase?

A: Yes, unless specifically noted otherwise.

 

I guess rules wise it should be "stackable"

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9 hours ago, King Taloren said:

That isn’t what kind asked. I asked you to show a command ability that explicitly states it does not stack in the books that isn’t placed in an afterthought FAQ.

 

8 hours ago, Isotop said:

Let’s Get Bouncing! (Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig) is such a command ability and was recently discussed in this forum. The more common example is the usage of "any" in description of an ability. Twilight’s Allure could for example say "models affected by any instance of this ability recieve X". We find this kind of wording in a lot of abilities. If you want a list, feel free to ask.

There is also the case with the following wording.

Quote

The same unit cannot be picked to be affected by this command ability more than once per phase.

In this case it was the ability "I'm Da Boss, Now Stab 'Em Good!" from the Loonboss. Okay in that case it is a "pick a unit" ability, but it doesn't stack because of this sentence.

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hm ok so it seems it is not clear that it is stackable? Is there any way i can address this to GW directly ?

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19 minutes ago, the_prophecy said:

hm ok so it seems it is not clear that it is stackable? Is there any way i can address this to GW directly ?

It would be this e-mail adress: AOSFAQ@gwplc.com

So it could be part of a future Errata/FAQ.

The only thing I see is that this rule doesn't have an indicator that it doesn't stack. So it would stack at the moment, if you spend enough command points.

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ok thanks. the problem is, when i have enough CPs i can totally shut down my opponent (which i did in a last game) with -2 to hit for several rounds. That is not fun to play against and it would be better if those things had an officially stated FAQ. Until then i wont use the ability only once just to make it more fun for my opponent.

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2 minutes ago, the_prophecy said:

ok thanks. the problem is, when i have enough CPs i can totally shut down my opponent (which i did in a last game) with -2 to hit for several rounds. That is not fun to play against and it would be better if those things had an officially stated FAQ. Until then i wont use the ability only once just to make it more fun for my opponent.

It can't get worse than hitting on 6 (thanks to the core rules) but yeah, it wouldn't be fun. The main problem is, that the ability is actually older than AoS 2.0 and before that only the General could use command Abilities and only could use them once per turn. So some Command Abilities could have sliped through GWs sight. Others were actually updated with an Errata.

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5 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

It can't get worse than hitting on 6 (thanks to the core rules) but yeah, it wouldn't be fun. The main problem is, that the ability is actually older than AoS 2.0 and before that only the General could use command Abilities and only could use them once per turn. So some Command Abilities could have sliped through GWs sight. Others were actually updated with an Errata.

ok thanks i wrote them an email and hope they clear things for us

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20 minutes ago, the_prophecy said:

ok thanks. the problem is, when i have enough CPs i can totally shut down my opponent (which i did in a last game) with -2 to hit for several rounds. That is not fun to play against and it would be better if those things had an officially stated FAQ. Until then i wont use the ability only once just to make it more fun for my opponent.

"[..] and a hit roll of 6 before modification always hits the target."

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2 minutes ago, Fluttershy said:

"[..] and a hit roll of 6 before modification always hits the target."

even hitting on 6s is a big impact especially playing against armies like Rotbringers. With only 3 extra CPs and a Battaltion a could use this ability 3  Turns and it would last for 6 Player turns which is huge and bad game design in my opinion

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59 minutes ago, the_prophecy said:

ok thanks. the problem is, when i have enough CPs i can totally shut down my opponent (which i did in a last game) with -2 to hit for several rounds. That is not fun to play against and it would be better if those things had an officially stated FAQ. Until then i wont use the ability only once just to make it more fun for my opponent.

How many points are you playing? Neferata´s big problem is her survivability. You have to park her in front of your opponents army to make use of Twilight’s Allure and Nurgle should be able to throw some mortal wounds on her. 550 points (Neferata + 3 CP as you say later) is a hell lot of point "just" to apply -2 to hit in a controlable, shrinking aura around a super fragile monster. Tournaments do not see Neferata because there are simply much better options in Death (I think she could actually be a bit cheaper).

However, I can see how playing against only one opponent (or one kind of opponents army) can lead you into thinking Neferata is overpowered. I think it is a great gesture from you to actively make the game more fun for your opponent.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Isotop said:

How many points are you playing? Neferata´s big problem is her survivability. You have to park her in front of your opponents army to make use of Twilight’s Allure and Nurgle should be able to throw some mortal wounds on her. 550 points (Neferata + 3 CP as you say later) is a hell lot of point "just" to apply -2 to hit in a controlable, shrinking aura around a super fragile monster. Tournaments do not see Neferata because there are simply much better options in Death (I think she could actually be a bit cheaper).

However, I can see how playing against only one opponent (or one kind of opponents army) can lead you into thinking Neferata is overpowered. I think it is a great gesture from you to actively make the game more fun for your opponent.

yes your second point is what i am talking about. No tournament meta, just mediocre and fun games. Especially when your opponent is not prepared for such shenanigans. We also played Shifting Objectives so a more narrow Battlefield. Just positioning Neferata in the centre and 15" is almost the entire Battlearea where the objectives are placed. Of course you can try to alpha damage Neferata but when shes at the far end of the field she is to far away. In my Turn i can move her with the Court of Nulahmia Batallion20" and shes back in the best position. Of course in GTs you can easily counter her but ia talking from the perpective of the game design and fun playing levels to mediocre level which i (in my opinion) 75% of how the game is played. Such an ability is far too strong in such a meta i think

Edited by the_prophecy

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Skaven Clawlord’s Gnash Gnaw on Their Bones is a fine example of a non-stackable Command Ability. 

    I played against a super-stacking Neferata this weekend, and I must say that it was not at all fun. 

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+++ MOD HAT +++

@Isotop & @King Taloren Come on folks, let's try and be civil here.  Not particularly impressed to read the comments and it's certainly not helping answer the question (which I believe does require an FAQ)

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14 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

+++ MOD HAT +++

@Isotop & @King Taloren Come on folks, let's try and be civil here.  Not particularly impressed to read the comments and it's certainly not helping answer the question (which I believe does require an FAQ)

I was not aware that

"I am picking it apart (and showing my face) because you keep telling (possibly new) players plainly wrong stuff - and I do not think this is okay."

is a to harsh choice of words.

Sorry.

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  • -1

That isn’t what kind asked. I asked you to show a command ability that explicitly states it does not stack in the books that isn’t placed in an afterthought FAQ.

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 @Isotop swear how I read what you say is just trying to pick apart everything you possibly can just to show your superior attitude...

 Seems you only show your face around when you don’t like what I say.

Show me a rule that says when it stacks or not in the rules. Please. Most of the rules being discussed are still from 1.0 before command points and stacking and GW has only stated whether a few of them work at all.  And then there isn’t really a rhyme or reason hat can really be deferred from them.

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  • -6

I don’t believe it is stackable because it is an effect that simply gives a -1 to all enemy units in her range. There isn’t anything in there faqs to say no explicitly. (Really GW needs to print out a list of every ability that stacks...)

Ruleswise there isn’t really a precident on which abilities are stackable or not. 

Lords of tide is stackable and waugh but not certain other abilities. Though in most cases it appears that things that don’t stack involve saves, modifying dice and similar abilities that change results.

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