AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

8 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

guys about "madness "tanquol spell. can i target as "enemy unit"  the enemy hero himself right? 

 I believe that is how it works

[greg19190]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:01 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

Are these basically the mod file for the skaven armored rat ogres, 3d printed?

Yes, with some of the warpfire bits from the stormfiends box and the less armored one is a korn hero that got a rat oger head... 

[Skreech Verminking]

Just now, greg19190 said:

Yes, with some of the warpfire bits from the stormfiends box and the less armored one is a korn hero that got a rat oger head... 

nice, thanks mate,so I`m guessing that the files from ttw work pretty well with most 3d printers.

good to know

[greg19190]

15 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

nice, thanks mate,so I`m guessing that the files from ttw work pretty well with most 3d printers.

good to know

Got it from cults for free and not sure as my mate who has a printer did them... The doomflayers also look sweet from the same artist and are free...

[greg19190]

19 hours ago, DocKeule said:

Seriously people...this is beyond stupid.

GW names the Broken Realms books because they include the most current versions of some profiles and allegiance abilities for some factions that haven't gotten an update since.

But if you look at the pages in Broken Realms this stuff is titled with "Battle Traits" and the opening lines talk about the "Clans Moulder allegiance ability which has been restructured with the new book so the older allegiance is voided. Plus the Broken Realms text opens with "If your army is a Skaventide army" and the new book doesn't use that keyword or allegiance any more.



So please stop fantasizing. 

That ended the discussion, dident even see that skaven lost the Skaventide keyword on there warscroll. 

[Skreech Verminking]

21 hours ago, DocKeule said:

Seriously people...this is beyond stupid.

GW names the Broken Realms books because they include the most current versions of some profiles and allegiance abilities for some factions that haven't gotten an update since.

But if you look at the pages in Broken Realms this stuff is titled with "Battle Traits" and the opening lines talk about the "Clans Moulder allegiance ability which has been restructured with the new book so the older allegiance is voided. Plus the Broken Realms text opens with "If your army is a Skaventide army" and the new book doesn't use that keyword or allegiance any more.



So please stop fantasizing. 

Well If I’m not mistaken the latest rules do say that everything having the skaventide keyword exchanges that with the skaven keyword.

also theoretically you could still give 1 unit of rat ogres a mutation, since the first one is pretty much always free.

anything more wouldn’t work

[Causalis]

Regarding those printed models:

I'm currently printing a whole army and the models are really really good! 

[DocKeule]

30 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well If I’m not mistaken the latest rules do say that everything having the skaventide keyword exchanges that with the skaven keyword.

also theoretically you could still give 1 unit of rat ogres a mutation, since the first one is pretty much always free.

anything more wouldn’t work

Alright ****** it. I quit. This level of delusion hurts my brain.

The August 2021 errata had every mentioning of "Skaventide" changed to "Skaven"...but only in the Skaven battletome and not in Broken Realms Kragnos.

So as you all love to look at the rules "raw", the Kragnos updates were illeagel since August of 2021.

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, Causalis said:

Regarding those printed models:

I'm currently printing a whole army and the models are really really good! 

looks amazing.

i can’t wait to see what gw will do when they notice how they are basically unable to sell the skaven models😂

[Causalis]

4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

looks amazing.

i can’t wait to see what gw will do when they notice how they are basically unable to sell the skaven models😂

Thanks!  You can find all the files on Cults3D. Maker is EmanG. 

GW not selling Skaven is simply a self-fulfilling prophecy, No marketing, no new models in ages = low sells. I would bet my hands that if GW wouldn't have pulled the whole Tomb King range and instead updated them, they would sell like hotcakes! We can see it with 40K: Necrons had low sales, then their range got a big update and now they are the most played Xenos faction. So if GW would update the Skaven range and actually promote them a bit, I'm sure people would buy them. 

Back to more gaming stuff:

Does anyone take Acolytes? Are they valid if taken as MSU? For 75p they seem pretty good to me. Could easily make their points back and are cheap enough to use as speedbumps or screens in a pinch.

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, Causalis said:

Thanks!  You can find all the files on Cults3D. Maker is EmanG. 

GW not selling Skaven is simply a self-fulfilling prophecy, No marketing, no new models in ages = low sells. I would bet my hands that if GW wouldn't have pulled the whole Tomb King range and instead updated them, they would sell like hotcakes! We can see it with 40K: Necrons had low sales, then their range got a big update and now they are the most played Xenos faction. So if GW would update the Skaven range and actually promote them a bit, I'm sure people would buy them. 

Back to more gaming stuff:

Does anyone take Acolytes? Are they valid if taken as MSU? For 75p they seem pretty good to me. Could easily make their points back and are cheap enough to use as speedbumps or screens in a pinch.

They are pretty good.

i’ve been playing the kn groups of 10 or more

[Ratling]

Finished Slynk an the boys

[W1tchhunter]

Anyone needing gutter runners that aren't ape looking mutants. Ravenous Hordes look great, just finished my first one. Couldn't actually find any painted ones online before buying these to decide if they'd be worth it. But glad I did they also have night runners, painting the gutters first but will show off the nights when I paint one. 

[greg19190]

1 hour ago, W1tchhunter said:

Anyone needing gutter runners that aren't ape looking mutants. Ravenous Hordes look great, just finished my first one. Couldn't actually find any painted ones online before buying these to decide if they'd be worth it. But glad I did they also have night runners, painting the gutters first but will show off the nights when I paint one. 

Did 2 for assassins love them apart from the fat tails... 

[W1tchhunter]

3 hours ago, greg19190 said:

Did 2 for assassins love them apart from the fat tails... 

I thought that initially but I don't think they are fat, I think they have heavy wraps along the full length, at the very base of the tail it is much thinner. That's how it looks to me anyway 😛 swhy I did it purple like the rest of the upper wrapping.

[Skreech Verminking]

They

 have finally dropped the skaven faq and yet the question still remains, how exactly those the redmaw plague work?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/W7hl71n7thSQTcjY.pdf

apparently not even the person who wrote those rules is certain

Edited July 27, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Skreech Verminking What was the confusion surrounding the Redmaw? I don't believe it changed too much other than remaining for the rest of the game on an enemy hero.

 

[W1tchhunter]

13 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Skreech Verminking What was the confusion surrounding the Redmaw? I don't believe it changed too much other than remaining for the rest of the game on an enemy hero.

 

Yeah I don't get the confusion, basically use it as your own unit during the combat phase so can pile in, fight etc. Unless it's within 3 inches of your army.

[J4yzor]

6 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Yeah I don't get the confusion, basically use it as your own unit during the combat phase so can pile in, fight etc. Unless it's within 3 inches of your army.

I would argue if being friendly to the skaven Player means it is automaticly an enemy to the other Player.

[Cosmicsheep]

Played a game against Archaon last night and ALMOST got to use Redmaw on him…. just a shame he was 4” from one of his own units when I rolled a 6 😂😂

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Redmaw Plague reads as follows:

"...At the start of the combat phase, if the infected HERO is within 3" of any other units in your opponent’s army and is not within 3" of any units in your army, then you can treat that HERO as a friendly unit until the end of that combat phase."

Just to throw a few points out there:

• You can activate the hero to trigger the masterclan pile-in battle trait. Interesting. 
• This checks only at the beginning of the phase, and thus remains a friendly unit even if you pile-in within 3" of your own units during its activation while trying to smackle something.
• You can issue command abilities to it and it can issue commands at the default range of 12" or 18" if its a totem

This is a triggered effect and thus depending on who's turn it is, will determine the order in which things happen. If its your turn, you can have this trigger first, then apply any beginning of combat phase buffs (if any), then your opponent can apply their debuffs. 

This situation is very important when considering enemy armies that have abilities that make units strike first or strike last. On your turn, you will have to invoke this first before your opponent gets to do anything, potentially allowing them to make an "enemy unit gains strike-last".

However, to @J4yzor's point, we are assuming that the opponent now treats their own model as an enemy unit in addition. RAW the prayer doesn't address the converse situation. This is an understandable hole in the rules for the sake of minimizing text. 

Now I might be getting to A confusing part as I'm typing this out: Is my opponent forced to attack their own model? 

Core Rules12.3 Pile in"...When you make a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move."

Core Rules 12.3 Combat Attacks "...you must make combat attacks with each model in the unit that is within range of an enemy model

In both cases, RAW would allow my opponent to just ignore the mind-controlled unit.

Another confusing point

There are other nuances as well, considering the differences between "treated as a friendly model" and "controlled by you" or "treated as part of your army". This is particularly relevant for the question: who "controls" their abilities? You might be thinking 'hey I'm activating it, so I do'. 

Lets say the warscroll has triggered abilities that say "when you kill an enemy model, do X". Who's "you" in this situation? Because if its the owner, their own models maybe getting slain, but they are not enemy models in their eyes. This is the view that the owner still controls the unit for purposes of being in their army. We slay our own models all the time as skaven but they're all still all friends in the end, right?  If the "you" is the activating player, then yes this type of ability would trigger.

However, who controls the ability? Again, this comes down to what "control" actively means. I did some digging and found this in the Core Rules:

22.4 Abilities:  "You must use the rules on a unit’s warscroll if the unit is part of your army."

This is a fascinating discovery. 

This would be evidence for the argument that we CAN'T use the sought after once-per-game abilities to deny our opponent that resource (which is why people loved this prayer).

However, however,

1.2.1 Friendly and Enemy Models: "Models from your army are referred to as friendly models"

The plot thickens. Our prayer states that the model is "treated as a friendly" model. The gut reaction now becomes the above equates models from army to friendly models. However there is an argument to be made that the converse isn't true by omission in the rules. Staggering. GW not covering all of their bases. I guess they're not perfect after all. 

In conclusion, its anyone's guess what happens with abilities of that dum-dum you infected. I don't know, decide for yourselves. Tell your friends ahead of time. Work it out. Let this tide you over in place of GW just FAQ'ing this dumb thing. 

Your're welcome. 

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

In conclusion, its anyone's guess what happens with abilities of that dum-dum you infected. I don't know, decide for yourselves. Tell your friends ahead of time. Work it out. Let this tide you over in place of GW just FAQ'ing this dumb thing. 

 

That is true and the way I will handle it in friendly games.

however I do enjoy the more competitive side of the game as well, and with it’s current wording, it would do nothing in this case, unless I’ able to convince the to that I may use it in a way I believe it was intended to work.

personally I’m very disappointed that they haven’t clarified that rule.

I’ve asked them multiple times and am more likely said not the only one 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:41 PM, Causalis said:

Has anyone tried running the new Screaming Bell? I know it's probably too expensive but I love the model and if there's a way to make it viable I would be interested. 

I just ran a 3 bell list to test/understand what was happening with the new scroll. So theres 3 roles to the bell (at least in theory)

Summoning: So the theory is that you have the ability to toggle on and off the masterclan body guard rule of a 3+ ward near some rats to better control the damage taken to the bell. This rule doesn't matter. Ultimately, if you are trying to summon, you are leaving the choice to summon to your opponent. Leaving choice to your opponent for your abilities to work has never been good game design. 

Spell casting: the +2/+1 to cast/pray are legit, statistically more relevant than the warpstone ability the foot greyseers have

Ringing the Bell: Damaging yourself, not great, considering its the same likelyhood as the rest. Dont trick yourself into thinking it will synergize with summoning. Extra movement is redundant for two reasons: the masterclan battletrait lets everything run faster and even if you run this first youre stuck behind your chaff and theres the likely hood of not being able to move at all. 1/6 chance to get a 1/2 chance to do damage to units? Rolling dice to roll dice is dead weight in a 5 round game. Do MWs on charge? Who charges with a bell? The deny-command-issuing is always bad with this wording because the receiving unit is all that matters when generals can issue from 18" away (and a 5+ to boot). Finally, the -1 to hit aura is amazing. 

At 325 pts, at every turn outside the Hero Phase,  I wish I had just paid for a verminlord. 

Now I am not one to completely dismiss units until I've fielded them enough, but I certainly had a game plan with my list of 3. I skitterleaped a Deathmaster with a Gnawbomb artifact near terrain of my opponents front line. Use the artifact, turning it into a gnawhole. Each bell was setup near different gnawholes that I kept in my backfield. At end of movement phase I moved all 3 to the center of my opponents line, the popped up 60 clanrats BEHIND the bells. They could then charge unimpeded if need be and also act as chaff for my more important, point scoring unit, the clanrats. 

I lost 1 bell in my opponents turn to focus fire, then had two half-strength bells to activate. I proceded to whiff the summon roles for both and was a lame duck the rest of the game. Points wise it was close, but nowhere near as fun as it could have been. Take that as you will. I will try this list again, perhaps with the bell of doom or even, dare I say, the maelstrom endless spells for self damage. 

[W1tchhunter]

Morning peeps just a quick question about the Eshin Masters of Murder. If you have 3 heroes with the eshin keyword do you get both abilities? I noticed if you have 1 or 2 heroes you get to pick ONE enemy hero you get +1 to hit and wound with both range and melee weapons. But if you have 3 you get +1 to hit and wound on all heroes but only with melee weapons.

So am I right if you bring 3 heroes, you pick one enemy hero for the +1 to hit and wound with all weapons and the other heroes you get +1 to hit and wound with melee only?

 

Cheers!

[Cosmicsheep]

@W1tchhunter i was hoping this was a typo and would have been FAQ'd, but RAW implies that it's melee only when you take 3 Eshin heroes.