AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

Just saw this article on Yahoo.  They're among us!

 

‘Giant coconut-cracking rat’ photographed for first time in Solomon Islands. See it (yahoo.com)

[W1tchhunter]

Have it on very good authority we are the second army in the next edition. Rat Ogors and Stormvermin remakes will be in it. 

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Have it on very good authority we are the second army in the next edition. Rat Ogors and Stormvermin remakes will be in it. 

Well not to get your hopes up, but the certainty that we are next in line isn’t quite a given.

while most aos fans including myself believe that skaven are the next starter faction getting a new update we haven’t heard or seem anything that confirms those hopes.

so so far this will just be us hoping that it isn’t any other way.

also stormvermins are awesome looking models.

i think we’d see plague monks redone before them if at all

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Lord Krungharr often thats true. No matter the skill level of a player you're up against, as soon as you explain that you teleport through gnawholes they overcompensate the first few rounds to deny you fun. Best make that the plan all along and have fun other ways. I only experimented with the above idea with the gnawbomb because in my local meta I'm always going first because, well, 13+ drop lists will do that, so my initial gnawhole placement is inspired by that. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Should I change my list up for the next upcoming event, last of 2023?  

I was using: 

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Masters of Execution
- Triumphs:
Verminlord Deceiver (400)**
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowmaster
- Artefact: Shadow Magnet Trinket
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Verminlord Deceiver (400)*
- Artefact: Farskitter Cloak
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Slynk Skittershank (220)**
Deathmaster (110)*
Deathmaster (110)*
Deathmaster (110)**
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
Vermintide (30)
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 76
Drops: 4

Or should I switch it to something like this with a few more wounds and the Warp Grinder and Gnawbomb to ease some terrain deepstriking burdens?  I will say though, the Farskitter Cloak really saved that one Deceiver's hide a couple times last tournament!

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Masters of Execution
- Triumphs:
Verminlord Deceiver (400)**
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowmaster
- Artefact: Shadow Magnet Trinket
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Verminlord Deceiver (400)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Slynk Skittershank (220)**
Deathmaster (110)*
- Artefact: Gnawbomb
Deathmaster (110)*
15 x Gutter Runners (300)**
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Gutter Runners (100)**
10 x Night Runners (90)
1 x Warp-Grinder (60)
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84
Drops: 6
 

[Skreech Verminking]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:10 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Should I change my list up for the next upcoming event, last of 2023?  

I was using: 

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Masters of Execution
- Triumphs:
Verminlord Deceiver (400)**
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowmaster
- Artefact: Shadow Magnet Trinket
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Verminlord Deceiver (400)*
- Artefact: Farskitter Cloak
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Slynk Skittershank (220)**
Deathmaster (110)*
Deathmaster (110)*
Deathmaster (110)**
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
Vermintide (30)
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 76
Drops: 4

Or should I switch it to something like this with a few more wounds and the Warp Grinder and Gnawbomb to ease some terrain deepstriking burdens?  I will say though, the Farskitter Cloak really saved that one Deceiver's hide a couple times last tournament!

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Masters of Execution
- Triumphs:
Verminlord Deceiver (400)**
- General
- Command Trait: Shadowmaster
- Artefact: Shadow Magnet Trinket
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Verminlord Deceiver (400)*
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Slynk Skittershank (220)**
Deathmaster (110)*
- Artefact: Gnawbomb
Deathmaster (110)*
15 x Gutter Runners (300)**
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Gutter Runners (200)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Gutter Runners (100)**
10 x Night Runners (90)
1 x Warp-Grinder (60)
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Battle Regiment
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84
Drops: 6
 

If it’s not too late I’d personally go for the first one as I personally just enjoy gutter runners more then night runners.

Also what happened here?

seem like nobody has written anything at all for a good amount of time here.

Hopefully much more will be talked-squeaked when the battlescroll update comes.

ps: also a merry ratmas to all of ya

Edited December 24, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:39 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Just saw this article on Yahoo.  They're among us!

 

‘Giant coconut-cracking rat’ photographed for first time in Solomon Islands. See it (yahoo.com)

Yes-yes we always have been there

[Lord Krungharr]

11 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

If it’s not too late I’d personally go for the first one as I personally just enjoy gutter runners more then night runners.

Also what happened here?

seem like nobody has written anything at all for a good amount of time here.

Hopefully much more will be talked-squeaked when the battlescroll update comes.

ps: also a merry ratmas to all of ya

Alas, I came down with a nasty cold/sinus/bronchial infection.  So I couldn't go to that event.  Apparently 16 other players showed, so $*%$!  But I did decide to make my last metal Verminlord into a Warbringer.  Then I'll have 2 Deceivers (1 is magnetized so could be Lord Skreech or a Warpseer), and the Warbringer.  That DeathFrenzy is pretty awesome!

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Alas, I came down with a nasty cold/sinus/bronchial infection.  So I couldn't go to that event.  Apparently 16 other players showed, so $*%$!  But I did decide to make my last metal Verminlord into a Warbringer.  Then I'll have 2 Deceivers (1 is magnetized so could be Lord Skreech or a Warpseer), and the Warbringer.  That DeathFrenzy is pretty awesome!

Yeah personally all of the verminlords look awesome.

and if it wasn’t for a friend of mine I’d probably never would have gotten the chance of owning the warp-gnaw verminlord.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

So a Friend suggested that I should try and send this home-brew faq to gw’s rule team (and likely won’t get a response)

considering that, I was wondering if any of you guys have any opinions about this home-brew before I send it to them.

ps: although there will be some grammar mistakes in 

Skaven faq (1).pdf

[Filius]

Greetings-regards, fellow schemers for world supermacy, I mean, all-of-the-realms-supremacy,

I haven't been to the TGA-Community for quite a while, and was a bit suprised to see, that here's only one topic in the Skaven Sub-Forum. Can anyone help me out, about what's the idea behind that? Should I just post every skaven related question here?

Gratitude-thanks, in advance!

Edited December 29, 2023 by Filius
Typos

[Skreech Verminking]

37 minutes ago, Filius said:

Greetings-regards, fellow schemers for world supermacy, I mean, all-of-the-realms-supremacy,

I haven't been to the TGA-Community for quite a while, and was a bit suprised to see, that here's only one topic in the Skaven Sub-Forum. Can anyone help me out, about what's the idea behind that? Should I just post every skaven related question here?

Gratitude-thanks, in advance!

Pretty much yes.

 

[Filius]

Thanks-thanks, Lord Verminking,

well, then I'll go for it. I do have more unbuild and unpainted minis, than I will probably be able to paint this year. But while painting and in between, I also think about in which direction I should go on with the army. And I wonder about the use of Clanrats vs. Stormvermin. From the last game I played (two years ago) I remember that the Stormvermin were really fun. The cut down the dryads they were facing with ease, and I made a note to myself to buy more of them and add a Claw-Lord. But Clanrats come in numbers of 20/40/60 and are also very much fun to build and paint.

Sooo … I wonder: Is there a general recommendation to go with more Clanrats or more Stormvermin currently?

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Filius said:

Thanks-thanks, Lord Verminking,

well, then I'll go for it. I do have more unbuild and unpainted minis, than I will probably be able to paint this year. But while painting and in between, I also think about in which direction I should go on with the army. And I wonder about the use of Clanrats vs. Stormvermin. From the last game I played (two years ago) I remember that the Stormvermin were really fun. The cut down the dryads they were facing with ease, and I made a note to myself to buy more of them and add a Claw-Lord. But Clanrats come in numbers of 20/40/60 and are also very much fun to build and paint.

Sooo … I wonder: Is there a general recommendation to go with more Clanrats or more Stormvermin currently?

Well…. Officially you will pribably be better of with more clanrats then stormvermins, but I tend to go for the rule of fun, and if it is stormvermins you like I’d go for that.

i too am a sucker for the elite horde and do prefer in my fun games to use a block of 30.

60 is something I personally haven’t dabbled with yet, but I might at some point

[Filius]

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well…. Officially you will pribably be better of with more clanrats then stormvermins, but I tend to go for the rule of fun, and if it is stormvermins you like I’d go for that.

i too am a sucker for the elite horde and do prefer in my fun games to use a block of 30.

60 is something I personally haven’t dabbled with yet, but I might at some point

Well … I only do fun games, hehe, so I'll just look for what I want to built and paint, once the todo-list reaches the "more clanrats or more stormvermin"-point.

Thanks alot-much!

[Skreech Verminking]

Just now, Filius said:

Well … I only do fun games, hehe, so I'll just look for what I want to built and paint, once the todo-list reaches the "more clanrats or more stormvermin"-point.

Thanks alot-much!

No prob. Mate happy to help

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Should we tell them about clanrats with -3 rend this season?

Or everything has -3 rend this season?

Edited December 29, 2023 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Skreech Verminking i re-read your FAQ suggestion and made some notes as i went through. They're condensed below. 

Overall thoughts: I feel a lot of suggestions are hopiuem fueled but they are fun, which is the point. Frankly nailing down the battle trait section could make everything else fall into place and not require much change elsewhere. That doesn't necessarily mean adding many more rules (see your Moulder section) but can suddenly make our troop units more fun. This is a flaw I think that our current book has where the battle traits are basically hero locked, and doesn't support our massive bench of units in a meaningful way.

Your design philosophy seems to about filling in gaps and building upon the old. If I were you, i'd go full tin-foil-hat and make some crazy structural changes, this is a fan FAQ after all. AKA you can get more nutty. 

Spoiler

Battle Traits
- I don't have much context for your choice/necessity for bravery modification. I do recognize this was our old rule but theres new tech out there we can use. We obviously suffer the most from bravery in the game but in the larger picture I'd wait to see if bravery is used differently altogether in 4.0. I will suggest however to consider adding horde bonuses directly onto warscrolls so that you can tailor them to what their MSU is (see your clanrat rule).
 
- Too little context to justify a new battlefield role. I see what you did with the discounted points and the  tech is already in game to restrict reinforcement points with controlling battleline. 
 
- More reinforcement points, no argument there.
 
- Redmaw changes i remember discussing in length about. You present a solid modification to a still problematic ability.
 
- Clawlords: recommend min. 3 required for the bonus ability to stay in line with the others and would make greater use of the fun ability. Personal taste but instead a 4+ refund if issued to verminous unit? Commmand point centric builds is the verminous way regardless.
 
- Moulder: The design is a welcome one that is adaptive and reminds me a lot of the Legion of the First Prince sub-allegiance ability to adapt mid combat for S2D armies. However, the individual mutations are wordy as hell and as a player I'd prefer a single ability (theres lots of "in addition"). This section has the most fat to trim.
 
Spell Lores
Personal taste but these spells feel outdated. i'm ready to move on and try new tech for our greyseers. Same goes for the Warpvolt lore. The Verminlords certainly need their own lore, perhaps use this space to recommend 3 spells for them exclusively?
 
Command Traits
- Overseer of Destruction: I see what you're trying to do, you wanna make Doom-flayers good again. I see you. I say let them eat cake. Here's a wild idea but why not make 3 weapon teams get that bonus at the list building stage? If you're using up a command trait you might as well garauntee that the units get their bonus the whole game.
 
- Architect of Death: An intriguing change considering the plagueclaw's debuff on targeting a unit. Now you can hit two units with one model. I like it.
 
Warscrolls
For the most part warscroll re-writes need to be done across the board. Without much context, they seem arbitrary, but i understand the fun they add. The additions that consider the other changes in your FAQ are what is most relevant.

Notable exclusions are Skritch Spiteclaw and the Screaming Bell, both currently do nothing and any suggested changes are welcome.  

Grand Strats
-Hired to Kill-slay: youre picking the hardest target, which incentivises alpha striking and overwhelming firepower. this is perfectly viable but a playstyle thats been done before. I instead prefer a feat of cunning and careful planning not so much the target choice. For example, "This grand strat is completed if an eshin hero slays and enemy hero picked to be a target from the Eshin battle trait and wasn't damaged by any other friendly units that turn". 1V1. So its possible for a single deathmaster to chase down a foot hero while still giving your opponent some counter-play AND incorporating the battle trait. 

-Alpha Rat: This is hilarious. Appreciate that its not clan locked as well. Theres built in diminishing returns by going beyond 3 heroes as it might be harder to convince your opponent to kill more. Very clever design. You should be proud of this one. 

-Who to blame-fault: Yes. 

Points
Really hard to make meaningful point changes without it being a race to the bottom and also considering my point about the warscrolls. That said, I recognize your love for stormvermin.

Hot take: We may need to get real and also consider the possibility of cutting models completely from our line. I'm pretty sure this is the most reasonable/honest thing GW could read from your fan FAQ.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Skreech Verminking i re-read your FAQ suggestion and made some notes as i went through. They're condensed below. 

Overall thoughts: I feel a lot of suggestions are hopiuem fueled but they are fun, which is the point. Frankly nailing down the battle trait section could make everything else fall into place and not require much change elsewhere. That doesn't necessarily mean adding many more rules (see your Moulder section) but can suddenly make our troop units more fun. This is a flaw I think that our current book has where the battle traits are basically hero locked, and doesn't support our massive bench of units in a meaningful way.

Your design philosophy seems to about filling in gaps and building upon the old. If I were you, i'd go full tin-foil-hat and make some crazy structural changes, this is a fan FAQ after all. AKA you can get more nutty. 

  Hide contents

Battle Traits
- I don't have much context for your choice/necessity for bravery modification. I do recognize this was our old rule but theres new tech out there we can use. We obviously suffer the most from bravery in the game but in the larger picture I'd wait to see if bravery is used differently altogether in 4.0. I will suggest however to consider adding horde bonuses directly onto warscrolls so that you can tailor them to what their MSU is (see your clanrat rule).
 
- Too little context to justify a new battlefield role. I see what you did with the discounted points and the  tech is already in game to restrict reinforcement points with controlling battleline. 
 
- More reinforcement points, no argument there.
 
- Redmaw changes i remember discussing in length about. You present a solid modification to a still problematic ability.
 
- Clawlords: recommend min. 3 required for the bonus ability to stay in line with the others and would make greater use of the fun ability. Personal taste but instead a 4+ refund if issued to verminous unit? Commmand point centric builds is the verminous way regardless.
 
- Moulder: The design is a welcome one that is adaptive and reminds me a lot of the Legion of the First Prince sub-allegiance ability to adapt mid combat for S2D armies. However, the individual mutations are wordy as hell and as a player I'd prefer a single ability (theres lots of "in addition"). This section has the most fat to trim.
 
Spell Lores
Personal taste but these spells feel outdated. i'm ready to move on and try new tech for our greyseers. Same goes for the Warpvolt lore. The Verminlords certainly need their own lore, perhaps use this space to recommend 3 spells for them exclusively?
 
Command Traits
- Overseer of Destruction: I see what you're trying to do, you wanna make Doom-flayers good again. I see you. I say let them eat cake. Here's a wild idea but why not make 3 weapon teams get that bonus at the list building stage? If you're using up a command trait you might as well garauntee that the units get their bonus the whole game.
 
- Architect of Death: An intriguing change considering the plagueclaw's debuff on targeting a unit. Now you can hit two units with one model. I like it.
 
Warscrolls
For the most part warscroll re-writes need to be done across the board. Without much context, they seem arbitrary, but i understand the fun they add. The additions that consider the other changes in your FAQ are what is most relevant.

Notable exclusions are Skritch Spiteclaw and the Screaming Bell, both currently do nothing and any suggested changes are welcome.  

Grand Strats
-Hired to Kill-slay: youre picking the hardest target, which incentivises alpha striking and overwhelming firepower. this is perfectly viable but a playstyle thats been done before. I instead prefer a feat of cunning and careful planning not so much the target choice. For example, "This grand strat is completed if an eshin hero slays and enemy hero picked to be a target from the Eshin battle trait and wasn't damaged by any other friendly units that turn". 1V1. So its possible for a single deathmaster to chase down a foot hero while still giving your opponent some counter-play AND incorporating the battle trait. 

-Alpha Rat: This is hilarious. Appreciate that its not clan locked as well. Theres built in diminishing returns by going beyond 3 heroes as it might be harder to convince your opponent to kill more. Very clever design. You should be proud of this one. 

-Who to blame-fault: Yes. 

Points
Really hard to make meaningful point changes without it being a race to the bottom and also considering my point about the warscrolls. That said, I recognize your love for stormvermin.

Hot take: We may need to get real and also consider the possibility of cutting models completely from our line. I'm pretty sure this is the most reasonable/honest thing GW could read from your fan FAQ.

Thanks, I’ll take a better look at your suggestion tomorrow. But the few things I’ve sk far read are very inspiring.

(Doing something entirely new might be an interesting thought)

[Lord Krungharr]

8 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Should we tell them about clanrats with -3 rend this season?

Or everything has -3 rend this season?

Does that include the effects of a Purple Sun from a Grey Seer?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Does that include the effects of a Purple Sun from a Grey Seer?

Correction: Clanrats have -4 rend this season

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Correction: Clanrats have -4 rend this season

Does this include a clawlord or verminlord warbringer with the warpstone charm?

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

Does this include a clawlord or verminlord warbringer with the warpstone charm?

The people in charge of the previous correction have promptly been sacked.

Clanrats have -5 rend this season

[Skreech Verminking]

21 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

The people in charge of the previous correction have promptly been sacked.

Clanrats have -5 rend this season

Yeah although I’d think it be best to mention that the potential -5 rend is something this season most skaven units can get.

Although clanrats are the cheapest option that can take full advantage out of it (in theory giant rats or slryre acolytes are cheaper, but truly they aren’t going to do more damage then maybe 2-4 depending how you roll in combat)

Of course this is the case if plague censer bearers get a points hike in the next battle-scroll update. Although I’d take clanrats every day over those plague censer bearers just for the sake of fun and fluffy lists

Edited December 30, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Here me out, the following recipe needs a Verminlord Corrupter, Greyseer, Clawlord, Purple Sun, Warlord battalion,  30 Plague Monks,  totaling 900 pts:

1) Cast Hoarfrost, roll like a god, get the 5+, target Plague Monks

2) Greyseer uses Skavenbrew artifact on Plague Monks

3) Cast Purple Sun

4) Charge Plaguemonks + Clawlord w/ Warpstone Charm

5) Lord of Pestilence CA on Plaguemonks. 

Result is ~120 attacks, 3" RNG,  +2/+3/-5/1 dmg. Nat 6's are -7 rend!

Edited December 30, 2023 by Riff_Raff_Rascal