AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

So I’ll be attending a small tournament next week,

and since I currently don’t have much time to paint anything new, and am Interested in competing at the best painted competition, I opted for this list:

Army Faction: Skaven
    - Grand Strategy: Slaughter of Sorcery
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

1 x Warlock Bombardier (100)*
    - Spells: Merciless Blizzard

1 x Warlock Bombardier (100)*
    - Spells: Merciless Blizzard

1 x Warlock Bombardier (100)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Deranged Inventor
    - Artefacts: Esoteric Warp Resonator
    - Spells: More-more-more Warp Power!

1 x Warlock Bombardier (100)**
    - Artefacts: Vial of the Fulminator
    - Spells: Levitate

1 x Warlock Bombardier (100)**
    - Spells: Merciless Blizzard

BATTLELINE

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)**

5 x Skryre Acolytes (70)**

BEHEMOTH

1 x Doomwheel (140)

OTHER

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Ratling Gun (60)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Andtorian Acolytes

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1980/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

Personally I went for the wizard killing one as I have a feeling that my own heroes are probably going to be dead before turn 5.

and this seemed more promising and likely to be possible for me to get then the other grand strats.

in any other case, I’ll be trying to deal as much destruction and mayhem as it is possible.

Also for every aspect I have in my army a or more warlock bombardiers represent that.

the poisoned wind fanatics got their own doom warlock with his apprentice bombardier behind him.

and the more refinde better ratting gun wielding bombardiers, well will command my squad of 13 rattling gun weapon teams.

and the boring generic bombardier will be commanding the boring generic warpfire throwers

[Lord Krungharr]

I think you will spoil SOOOO many people's plans with this army!  Please report back with what happens.  If I can make it to Indiana in late September I'll report on Clan Eshin's results too.

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I think you will spoil SOOOO many people's plans with this army!  Please report back with what happens.  If I can make it to Indiana in late September I'll report on Clan Eshin's results too.

I will happily.

Although my first and foremost plan is to win that price for best painted. (It’s a small tournament of 10 people max. So competition is small)

also good luck to you and your eshin army😁

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm on the fence about taking Lord Skreech vs a 2nd Deceiver.  My Grand Strat will be Masters of Execution, so a 2nd Deceiver will help to achieve that.  But of course Deceivers are pretty disappointing in terms of killyness.  Lord Skreech has some good utility for casting too, and more damage potential.  Right now I'm thinking:

Masters of Execution

Deceiver (general: Shadowmaster to save his hide though I know I'll miss the Devious Adversary attacks, Flaming Weapon, Shadow Magnet Trinket)

Deceiver or Lord Skreech ?!  (if Deceiver, me thinks the Farskitter Cloak)

2 Deathmasters

Slynk & Co.

3x10 Gutter Runners

1 Warp Grinder (to give me another option for some Gutter Runners or a Deathmaster, or just tagging objectives, absorbing Unleash Hell)

Vermintide

[Skreech Verminking]

Man the new battescroll update is kinda mean to the skaven.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/AefiGVn8NoPchpF2.pdf
I don’t see us rising in the meta at all.

 

[Bregor]

Ding dong, one of the worst rules in the book is dead! The Screaming Bell and Plague Furnace have figured out how to push themselves!

The bell is also 220 now. Given that it can actually move now, I wonder if it becomes a melee unit? A cheap verminlord equivalent that can bring one out as well if the right conditions are met? Hmm. This might actually have possibilities.

[DocKeule]

1 hour ago, Bregor said:

Ding dong, one of the worst rules in the book is dead! The Screaming Bell and Plague Furnace have figured out how to push themselves!

The bell is also 220 now. Given that it can actually move now, I wonder if it becomes a melee unit? A cheap verminlord equivalent that can bring one out as well if the right conditions are met? Hmm. This might actually have possibilities.

I don't know. It was kind of thematic and made more sense than many of the other carriages moving without anyone or anything pulling them. But yes it makes using them a little easier.

 

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Man the new battescroll update is kinda mean to the skaven.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/AefiGVn8NoPchpF2.pdf
I don’t see us rising in the meta at all.

 

At least there is another easy battle tactic especially with the Clanrats being able to retreat and charge.

[Lord Krungharr]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Man the new battescroll update is kinda mean to the skaven.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/AefiGVn8NoPchpF2.pdf
I don’t see us rising in the meta at all.

 

Why though?  No need for pushing the bell or furnace is awesome!  And cheaper units, also good.  

[Bregor]

1 hour ago, DocKeule said:

I don't know. It was kind of thematic and made more sense than many of the other carriages moving without anyone or anything pulling them. But yes it makes using them a little easier.

 

At least there is another easy battle tactic especially with the Clanrats being able to retreat and charge.

Narrative sense, sure, but the mechanic was clunky af and the two units felt unfairly singled-out. Good riddance imo (until the next time they write the warscrolls when the mechanic will suddenly be back).

 

Also, I can definitely understand Skreech's frustration with the update, since nothing that's really holding us down was addressed (except maybe having another viable BT to score), and probably won't be until the next book. Points changes are nice, sure, but that's not the big issue. We'll see, though; maybe having a more viable big caster on the board and the extra VPs will bump up our stats a bit.

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh I see...no news is bad news in this case.  I think the big bells/furnaces should be able to move themselves, slowly, and THEN move an extra 3" for every 10 friendly Skaven models within 3" of it, up to an extra 9".  And the bell should have the battleshock immunity, or the Bravery 10 thing like the Warpseer has.  Frankly the Furnace should only do that for Pestilens rats, and the bell for ALL rats.

[Lord Krungharr]

And the not-very-killy-Deceiver should be less points too.

[DocKeule]

1 hour ago, Bregor said:

Narrative sense, sure, but the mechanic was clunky af and the two units felt unfairly singled-out. Good riddance imo (until the next time they write the warscrolls when the mechanic will suddenly be back).

I get your point but from an immersion-standpoint that was one of the few things in AOS that still made sense. But yes ist will make movement and positioning a lot easier (and no one would be surprised if the rule was back with the next update for no appearent reason).

 

1 hour ago, Bregor said:

Also, I can definitely understand Skreech's frustration with the update, since nothing that's really holding us down was addressed (except maybe having another viable BT to score), and probably won't be until the next book. Points changes are nice, sure, but that's not the big issue. We'll see, though; maybe having a more viable big caster on the board and the extra VPs will bump up our stats a bit.

But when does that happen in those minor updates anyway? 

When a faction ist part of a new box set the units in there often get bumped but mostly only for a short time. Other than that it is usually a new army book that brings change. And even there I don't see much happening for Skaven unless at least one of the clans gets a big multi-model release. Unless that happens they are an aftherthought.

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, DocKeule said:

I get your point but from an immersion-standpoint that was one of the few things in AOS that still made sense. But yes ist will make movement and positioning a lot easier (and no one would be surprised if the rule was back with the next update for no appearent reason).

 

But when does that happen in those minor updates anyway? 

When a faction ist part of a new box set the units in there often get bumped but mostly only for a short time. Other than that it is usually a new army book that brings change. And even there I don't see much happening for Skaven unless at least one of the clans gets a big multi-model release. Unless that happens they are an aftherthought.

I don’t think gw can even bring out a book resembling what we have in our current edition.

at this point I guess you could say the skaven would fee worse them being removed from the range.

personally though I do have to say this.

I don’t think this update has helped the skaven in a sense of bringing them back up to a good standart at all.

While we did get a new battle tactic.

this one those feel more like well most of the time you won’t be able to take it.

the hero part of scurry-running away is easy.

but keeping the unit of battleline long enough alive to do it afterwards is incredible tricky.

[DocKeule]

I don't think GW will scrap Skaven. I mean you never know with these #@* but they are still somewhat popular and the box sets still sell even if the Skaven part contains only models from ten years ago.

On the other hand I don't see Skaven going up in the meta any time soon (or probably at all). They are a fun army and for most players only good for casual games.

As for the tatctic: If you use min-units of clanrats you will have a hard time. With a reinforced unit (maybe double reinforced) you should be able to pull it of for at least two to three rounds.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Returning after a long hiatus to unfurl banner "Mission Accomplished". 

Pushed into battle was pushed into space just like the skaven intended. Winnning.

[magtchu]

I liked ''pushed into battle''. Lore and fluff are hugely important to me, it's pretty much why I play the game in the first place and not checkers or  chess or something instead,  and a rule like that helps make the fluff and lore become a reality on the table. For me it just makes it more interesting. Maybe they can bring it back next book but as less of a hindrance as the other guy said. Like  if all its ''push rats'' die it can rally a couple more around it. Hope they bring it back. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by magtchu

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, magtchu said:

I liked ''pushed into battle''. Lore and fluff are hugely important to me, it's pretty much why I play the game in the first place and not checkers or  chess or something instead,  and a rule like that helps make the fluff and lore become a reality on the table. For me it just makes it more interesting. Maybe they can bring it back next book but as less of a hindrance as the other guy said. Like  if all its ''push rats'' die it can rally a couple more around it. Hope they bring it back. 

Personally the whole skaven needed a rewrite the moment it came out.

while I do attempt to play at tournaments, I am a casual beer and bretzel player at heart and against and with my buddies.

what is most important for me and the reason I played the skaven so often was and is the lore.

it is amazing and yet the new skaven books represents as little of that as possible.

I don’t like it at all.

personally the update to the screaming bell and furnace does put both units into a spot the cauldron is, but personally, I don’t see much changing here.

the screaming bell, will more likely still never see play, after all it is either a bad warscroll or about 220 points over its playable cost.

the furnace on the other hand might be able to use those changes to it’s advantages.

the battle tactic, while a nice addition to our hard to get ones, is’t an auto include, but more of a tactic that is situational as a battleline unit is needed that survived last turns enemy charge or charges.

[TheArborealWalrus]

Figured I'd report on my GT. 
The list: 2,000pts, 7 drops, kill all battleline grand strategy.
- Battalion: 
Master moulder - general, Moulder supreme, Foulhide
3x4 rat ogres
20 clanrats
warp lightning cannon
- Andorian acolytes:
2x Greyseers - deathfrenzy
- Warlord:
Master moulder - Rabid crown
Warplock engineer - steal endless spell
Warplock bombadier - More more warp power
20 clanrats
- Endless spells
Gnashing jaws
vermintide
bell of doom

Fought the gloomspite player from my area who kind of list tailored to fight me first. Worked out pretty well for him. (3-2) He's a good player regardless, so that makes sense. Failed all of my rat ogre respawns and that was that. Still pretty close. lost by 6 with him getting his grand strategy and me not.
Game 2 vs slyvaneth. Guy was new and I was teaching him how his army worked the whole time. Ground him down and actually respawned a rat ogor unit. Durthu failed a 6 inch reroll charge and was promptly eaten alive. Actually got my grand strat.
Fought soulblight and got stomped by 80 zombies, 40 grave guard, and a dragon plus all those heroes that got a price increase right after the tournament. He started 3 inches away and swarmed me instantly. No real objective control the whole game for me. Did get 1 of 2 rat ogor units back. Grand strat a failure again.
Game 4 vs gloomspite in a near copy of my friend's old list. (squig swarm plus skagrot and trolls) Failed 2 rat ogre respawns and was ground down. Had no chance for grand strat. I think I would have won it if the ogres had come back. ah well.
Foght our local Nurgle player's beasts of nurgle army. Very thematic. Very terrible. Couldn't push me off objectives except with the GUO. Targeted him first and it was just holding objectives from there. Didn't get grand strat. Xp (no respawns either - kek)
At least I won best army with my display board and such. XD
Pretty okay tournament. A couple of great opponents. Alas our supply of spare rat ogres was non-existent. Would've helped a lot. XP
Hope you enjoyed. For Moulder!

[Skreech Verminking]

7 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Figured I'd report on my GT. 
The list: 2,000pts, 7 drops, kill all battleline grand strategy.
- Battalion: 
Master moulder - general, Moulder supreme, Foulhide
3x4 rat ogres
20 clanrats
warp lightning cannon
- Andorian acolytes:
2x Greyseers - deathfrenzy
- Warlord:
Master moulder - Rabid crown
Warplock engineer - steal endless spell
Warplock bombadier - More more warp power
20 clanrats
- Endless spells
Gnashing jaws
vermintide
bell of doom

Fought the gloomspite player from my area who kind of list tailored to fight me first. Worked out pretty well for him. (3-2) He's a good player regardless, so that makes sense. Failed all of my rat ogre respawns and that was that. Still pretty close. lost by 6 with him getting his grand strategy and me not.
Game 2 vs slyvaneth. Guy was new and I was teaching him how his army worked the whole time. Ground him down and actually respawned a rat ogor unit. Durthu failed a 6 inch reroll charge and was promptly eaten alive. Actually got my grand strat.
Fought soulblight and got stomped by 80 zombies, 40 grave guard, and a dragon plus all those heroes that got a price increase right after the tournament. He started 3 inches away and swarmed me instantly. No real objective control the whole game for me. Did get 1 of 2 rat ogor units back. Grand strat a failure again.
Game 4 vs gloomspite in a near copy of my friend's old list. (squig swarm plus skagrot and trolls) Failed 2 rat ogre respawns and was ground down. Had no chance for grand strat. I think I would have won it if the ogres had come back. ah well.
Foght our local Nurgle player's beasts of nurgle army. Very thematic. Very terrible. Couldn't push me off objectives except with the GUO. Targeted him first and it was just holding objectives from there. Didn't get grand strat. Xp (no respawns either - kek)
At least I won best army with my display board and such. XD
Pretty okay tournament. A couple of great opponents. Alas our supply of spare rat ogres was non-existent. Would've helped a lot. XP
Hope you enjoyed. For Moulder!

Could you mahbe send a pic of your army?

also as for grand strat, I’d go for kill all wizard.

basically your job is to make certain that your opponent has 0 wizard left.

and even if you start a game with 6 skaven wizard, i wouldn’t be worried too much about that.

afterall skaven are easy to kill, and even if your opponent isnmt capable of killing your army.

you can easily throw your heroes into combat to make certain that they die automatically 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

I went 2-1 with pure Clan Eshin on Saturday.  First was Frost-geyser mission vs Kruleboyz Grinning Blades.  Had to end on bottom of turn 4, he had 18 to my 16 points, but he failed his Grand Strat, but I still had plenty of heroes left, and WIN!  By 1 point

Then vs Avengorii Dynasty w VLoZD and 2 Terrorgheists, the cool bat-centaur Lord, and 4x10 Skeletons.  He failed his GS by failing all but 1 of his resummoning/resurrecting rolls....and I just picked off his units a couple at a time.  I baited his general VLoZD turn 1 with my Deceiver general, who lived, and then Skitterlept out of combat leaving that guy waaaaay back in his far corner.  My plan-scheme worked!  Yes-yes, I certainly mean to do that !

Then I got curbstomped by Ironjawz game 3 w 2 megabosses, 3 chanters, 3x10 new Ardboyz, and 7x3 new Brute Ragerz?  Not the weirdboy ones. 

Did anyone know that apparently like the entire army can move, or charge in the hero phase?!  I did not!  And did you also know you can charge in the hero phase, retreat, and then pile into combat later in the same turn?  I did NOT!  And did you finally hear about a Megaboss gaining attacks and wounds every combat phase if they kill any models, cumulative over the whole game, and then having a once per game artefact to boost the damage from 2 to 5?!?!?!  NOW YOU KNOW.  Guy was actually a really fun and nice player, but WOW, that is some bologna OP rules that need to be reigned in big time.

The only thing I can think of that might have helped besides me seeing his list and rules first, would have been to castle completely to one side (as he was all strung out along the table) and trying to just erase little units as I went, hoping to kill enough while going for a draw, then edging out later in the game somehow achieving tactics.  Alas it was not to be.  Oh well, still a winning day for the ninja rats!

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I went 2-1 with pure Clan Eshin on Saturday.  First was Frost-geyser mission vs Kruleboyz Grinning Blades.  Had to end on bottom of turn 4, he had 18 to my 16 points, but he failed his Grand Strat, but I still had plenty of heroes left, and WIN!  By 1 point

Then vs Avengorii Dynasty w VLoZD and 2 Terrorgheists, the cool bat-centaur Lord, and 4x10 Skeletons.  He failed his GS by failing all but 1 of his resummoning/resurrecting rolls....and I just picked off his units a couple at a time.  I baited his general VLoZD turn 1 with my Deceiver general, who lived, and then Skitterlept out of combat leaving that guy waaaaay back in his far corner.  My plan-scheme worked!  Yes-yes, I certainly mean to do that !

Then I got curbstomped by Ironjawz game 3 w 2 megabosses, 3 chanters, 3x10 new Ardboyz, and 7x3 new Brute Ragerz?  Not the weirdboy ones. 

Did anyone know that apparently like the entire army can move, or charge in the hero phase?!  I did not!  And did you also know you can charge in the hero phase, retreat, and then pile into combat later in the same turn?  I did NOT!  And did you finally hear about a Megaboss gaining attacks and wounds every combat phase if they kill any models, cumulative over the whole game, and then having a once per game artefact to boost the damage from 2 to 5?!?!?!  NOW YOU KNOW.  Guy was actually a really fun and nice player, but WOW, that is some bologna OP rules that need to be reigned in big time.

The only thing I can think of that might have helped besides me seeing his list and rules first, would have been to castle completely to one side (as he was all strung out along the table) and trying to just erase little units as I went, hoping to kill enough while going for a draw, then edging out later in the game somehow achieving tactics.  Alas it was not to be.  Oh well, still a winning day for the ninja rats!

I did not know that ironjawz can do that

[Lord Krungharr]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I did not know that ironjawz can do that

I guess if anyone has a hero-phase charge rule, then if they can retreat far enough and make it to within 5" of say, a shooty enemy, they just pile-in because when anyone charges previously in the turn they get to pile-in, and even if they can't strike in the combat phase for being a bit too far away after the pile-in, the enemy wouldn't be able to Unleash Hell, or shoot at anyone else in their next turn.  Beardy cheez I say.

[TheArborealWalrus]

15 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Could you mahbe send a pic of your army?

 

[TheArborealWalrus]

7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I guess if anyone has a hero-phase charge rule, then if they can retreat far enough and make it to within 5" of say, a shooty enemy, they just pile-in because when anyone charges previously in the turn they get to pile-in

That's a lot of work to pull off, but Ironjaws have enough movement nonsense to do it. First I've heard of anyone not running the goregruntaz spam army. I hope that it becomes more viable. Hard to beat mawcrusha + pigs easy first turn charge though.
Iron jaws are one of my least favorite opponents. RIP

[Lord Krungharr]

The only good game I ever had vs Ironjawz was with my old Legion of Azgorh, and he took 3 magma cannons and 40 Fireglaive shots bottom of turn 1....goodbye Mawkrushas!  

Here's some Clan Eshin battleshots.....killing Gobbsprakk was SOOOO gratifying!

Edited September 27, 2023 by Lord Krungharr