AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[DocKeule]

Could be a hint what future Eshin profiles might be like. 

[Darkhan]

1 hour ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Looks interesting. Not sure if it’s worth the points. Costs more than 5 gutter runners and an assassin but being able to dish out mortals and deep strike within 6” is good, and strike first and retreat could be fun 😁

Yeah, way expensive imo 

[Skreech Verminking]

47 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Yeah, way expensive imo 

They really are.

but considering that,

the unit isn’t that bad, the hero is a pretty good deathmaster.

all in all we are basically paying 2x 110 points for 2units that really aren’t that bad.

I could actually see a combination with dreaded deathfrenzy and dreaded skitterleap with this assassin.

with 12 attacks, that model can be brutal, especially against the hero, he chose as his eshin target 

[greg19190]

3 hours ago, Darkhan said:

Battlescrolls for the new Eshin out

Got a link? 

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, greg19190 said:

Got a link? 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/GnvshilvPiKWvp7A.pdf

[Cosmicsheep]

Also, looks like the Skaven warband is only going to be available (on release date) as part of the Nethermaze box at £65 RRP while the Soulblight war band is available separately at £26

[Moogypies]

I think the cost whilst high, is probably fair. 

6" deepstrike with strike first and retreat with shooting mortals and melee? 

Autotake in Mono Eshin (Duh) and I look forward to trying them in mixed clan too, they're near in cost to a hell pit and I'd rather have these right now then a floppy 12 wound 5+ save that gives away a vp  

[Cosmicsheep]

And I totally missed that the clawpack have 2 wounds each! Maybe 225pts isn't bad after all. Waiting to see what price my FLGS is selling Nethermaze at and wondering if I can hock the rest of it on eBay 🤔

Edited April 23, 2022 by Cosmicsheep

[Skreech Verminking]

22 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

And I totally missed that the clawpack have 2 wounds each! Maybe 225pts isn't bad after all. Waiting to see what price my FLGS is selling Nethermaze at and wondering if I can hock the rest of it on eBay 🤔

You are basically paying 110points (so 45 points more) for a tougher and more stabby  unit, in comparison with gutter runners

[Skreech Verminking]

Basically even if the models aren’t worth their points, I could actually see myself buying them either way.

the specail character can easily be used as a deathmaster.

the rest of the range, combined with 2 of the older skaven warbands, can make up a really good looking nightrunner squad or even 2 gutter runner units.

[Cosmicsheep]

15 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Basically even if the models aren’t worth their points, I could actually see myself buying them either way.

I'm off to my FLGS tomorrow to place an order. Anyone want a Nethermaze minus the skaven?? 🤣

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

I'm off to my FLGS tomorrow to place an order. Anyone want a Nethermaze minus the skaven?? 🤣

😂this aint the elf-things chat my fellow backstabbing skaveny friend.

but I’ll happily take-steal the skaven part from you-you😉

[Skreech Verminking]

So with a small friendly tournament coming up soon, I was thinking of using the majority of my rattling guns.

So basically I’ll be playing this list:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Warlock Bombardier (125)**
- General
- Command Trait: Overseer of Destruction
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
 UNITS
5 x Skryre Acolytes (65)* 5 x Skryre Acolytes (65)* 1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)
1 x Ratling Gun (65)**
1 x Ratling Gun (65)**
1 x Ratling Gun (65)**
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Hunters of the Heartlands **Vanguard
LEADERS: 1/6
ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS: 1/3
REINFORCED UNITS: 0/4 DROPS: 13
    TOTAL: 965/2000
WOUNDS: 45
BATTLELINES: 2 (3+)
BEHEMOTHS: 0/4
ARTILLERY: 0/4 ALLIES: 0/400

Is it good,

probably not, but I’ll be trying to get the price for best painted, so basically I’ll be going all put on conversion work and painting.

something I haven’t done in a while.

and if somebody ask me what the list can do I can basically show him this: 

This should clarify things😂

[Garrac]

So, now it's almost/kinda/maybewhateverpercent certain that the Chaos battletome coming this summer it's rats (or at least I'll pretend it's rats) 

 

I've already speculated about a much needed Eshin rerange release, but now I'm thinking more on the rules

 

1- I think that right Skaven need better rules for Eshin/Pestilens/Moulder. I need to be able to put deathmasters that are actually useful. More powerful rat ogres outside of buffs. That the bearers become more dangerous. Basically, to power-up something rather than Skyrre, basically.

 

2- Also, I'm geting the sensation that the clans are getting "orrukwarclansed". Like, that GW'll nerf severely the "soup" army (as they've done with Big W) and force us to use more the other clans separately. I don't like that scenario because right now the clans are not at the same level, but the good side is that I suppose they'll get rid of all those 2039 artifacts that only serve for occupying space on the battletome.

 

Lore-wise, I want GW to start giving some new love to the rats. I mean, it's kind of disappointing to see the other factions getting new units, sub-factions and some lorelove like the orruks last year, while the skaven have stayed the same since 2014. I mean, come on! Let them do something important, not be just canon fodder. I mean, they obliterated 70% of the Old World, we need to keep using them as a scary big force, and not some weird Chaos corner that no one wants to play with

 

4- More new spetial characters. I really miss the Fanratastic Four (Ikit, Snikch, Skrolk, Throt) but at least I expected someone new to cover up the hole on AoS. To this day, we only have Thanquol, Skreech (who, btw, needs better rules to represent he's a freaking monster at foot with Kragnos & cia) and the Underworlds warbands. That's sad. In fact, one of the reasons I keep saying the 6th edition was the worst skaven army it's because they eliminated all the spetial characters... and AoS did the same! Don't be mistaken, I like the battletome, but I deeply miss some new villains with cool miniatures... or maybe old! We already know Ikit is alive, so, put him on a tech-rat-dragon or something and I swear I'll literally throw you my money!

 

5-Yes, the miniatures. I know I said I've already talked about this, but I need to emphatise the importance of this. In fact, I'm going to create a new thread talking about this subject, yeah

 

So... maybe it's too much to ask for? I don't know. At this points I'm happy with a gunners rerange. Please GW?

[Moogypies]

1- My wild predictions-

Generic-
Renumber the bravery allegiance to apply to lower unit sizes.
Skaven battalions give extra reinforcement points.

Eshin Bonus -1 to be hit in combat+range
1 Mortal on 6's to hit for gutters/night runners.

Pestilens- Mortal wounds taken if in combat. Leadership negatives.
No changes to plague monks.
Censer Bearers OP, new kit.
New Mounted Plague Priest on Brood Horror. 
Catapults still absolute trash.  

Moulder- 5/6+ ward on Hell pit & Ogors 
Giant rats cost up, 6+ save. Scares all monsters.

Skryre- Double Rend Characteristic on 6's to wound.  
Weapons Teams are now teams, you take them in a unit 😛 

2- Im not sure of your point here, especially as Big Waagh is the best faction in the Orruks tome by a fair bit. but I do think we'll see the Four main clans and a mix all clan style.

3- The time of the Realm of Life is coming, surely an explosion of life means even more rats. As fanatics of decay of all life, surely Clans Pestilens will make a move 🐀 

4- I doubt we'll get a new big guy, we've got a new named deathmaster now, so plague priest or moulder would be lovely. 

5- I'll be majorly surprised if we have a new batch of miniatures. Happily surprised, we're a dual tome release with Sylvaneth that means maybe 1 hq and 1 unit like nighthaunt got in their box. Maybe an extra hero like they had too. 


 

[DocKeule]

1 hour ago, Garrac said:

1- I think that right Skaven need better rules for Eshin/Pestilens/Moulder. I need to be able to put deathmasters that are actually useful. More powerful rat ogres outside of buffs. That the bearers become more dangerous. Basically, to power-up something rather than Skyrre, basically.

Well I don't see that happening frankly.

With the last few updates of existing factions GW mostly streamlined the warscrolls a little but the power level hasn't changed that much most of the time. I would expect more subtle changes.
 

2 hours ago, Garrac said:

2- Also, I'm geting the sensation that the clans are getting "orrukwarclansed". Like, that GW'll nerf severely the "soup" army (as they've done with Big W) and force us to use more the other clans separately. I don't like that scenario because right now the clans are not at the same level, but the good side is that I suppose they'll get rid of all those 2039 artifacts that only serve for occupying space on the battletome.

Luckily I also don't see that happening. The Orruks never really were one united faction in AoS. They just threw two battletomes together and added a third faction with little to no connections to the others.

I don't see GW going for Mono-Clan-lists. Skryre and maybe Moulder are the only clans that could halfway successfully do that. 

The main risk I see is losing (some of) the metal and resin models. As for new models I could see ta facelift for the Eshin designs but I don't expect many new units. A hero (on foot probably) and maybe anothe unit is the most anybody got lately. Same with named characters. A lot of newer armies only have one to begin with. 

[Garrac]

I don't know. Seeing tiers and tournament rankings right now Big W doesn't appear a lot... and the times that it appear, it's like ironjawz with a few units changed. And now it's the time for ynnari at 40k, receiving another big nerf.

 

What I see that's the tendency since 3rd and 9th started it's that GW wants the soups to end, and players to choose more specific subfactions. (I hope I'm wrong, skaven have allways played like a mix of clans)

 

Btw, it has been leaked from the nighthaunt bt some spetial rules for reinforcements. I would expect the same for clanrats at least

[Cosmicsheep]

Looking at the new NightHaunt rules i'm hoping for something similar with subfactions. Lets say we can choose from Moulder, Skryre, Eshin or Pestilens subfactions. And all Skaven units gain that keyword unless they have another keyword on their warscroll already. So Rat Ogors have the moulder keyword, gutter runners have eshin but clanrats and stormvermin have none.

So we can take a moulder subfaction which gives clanrats the moulder keyword AND makes them battleline. We could still take gutter runners but they would not gain the moulder keyword and wouldn't benefit from the allegience abilities

I think i could live with that. You can still soup, or mono-clan but with added battleline. Crossing all my fingers and toes 🤣

Edit: thikning about this some more, i'd like to see Eshin subfaction doing mortals on 5 instead of a 6 (if that's the way Eshin are going based on the new warband) Maybe the Skryre subfaction can take extra units with the warp-grinder (or come up 6" away instead of 9") The pestilens subfaction gives an extra rend, Moulder gets a ward save etc..) 

Am i just dreaming ??

Edited May 2, 2022 by Cosmicsheep

[Skreech Verminking]

My idea of a subfaction:

The thirteen schemes:

Choose one of the following schemes to apply to your army.

The master scheme:

all Masterclan Heroes add +2 to their unbinding, casting, and endless spell unbinding roll.

All other Wizardy heroes add 1 to their casting… rolls.

the scheme of shadows:

If any

 hit rolls are made in the shooting phase against a skaven unit from the army with this scheme.

subtract 1 from the roll.

if this skaven unit is a Clan eshin model, it has a 6+ ward save in addition against any attacks made against them.

 

scheme of Doom:

Increase the rend characteristic for each combat and shooting weapons by 1.

if this unit is a skryre unit add in addition +1 to their weapons damage characteristics.

 

scheme of make-breeding (what-ever moulder does)

subtract 1 from any wound roll made by an attack that targets a skaven unit.

in addition any moulder beasts units get a 5+ ward save.

 

scheme of pestilence:

each time a model dies in a skaven unit roll a dice.

on a 6 the enemy model within 3” that made the attack suffers a mortal wound.

each pestilence unit triggers this effect on a 4+

Scheme of War:

All skaven units can add +1 to the charge rolls.

if they made a charge they gain +1 to the hit rolls.

a skaven verminus unit that makes a charge can add +2 to the charge toll instead.

in addition, increase the attacks characteristic

of a clan verminus unit by 1 and add +1 to the hit roll, when they made a charge.

something like this would make the skaven much more interesting.

it is not unusable that a verminus clan would pledge their allegiance to a greater and stronger clan (like for example eshin or pestilence).

having all units gain something while the units that specifically come from that su

bfaction gain more wou

ld be in my oppinion the best and most interesting way.

ps: the buffs were just thought out, so they really aren’t done well, I just wanted to put out some example what the principal would be that I want to see from a lore aspect in the upcoming skaven tome.

[Garrac]

3 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Looking at the new NightHaunt rules i'm hoping for something similar with subfactions. Lets say we can choose from Moulder, Skryre, Eshin or Pestilens subfactions. And all Skaven units gain that keyword unless they have another keyword on their warscroll already. So Rat Ogors have the moulder keyword, gutter runners have eshin but clanrats and stormvermin have none.

So we can take a moulder subfaction which gives clanrats the moulder keyword AND makes them battleline. We could still take gutter runners but they would not gain the moulder keyword and wouldn't benefit from the allegience abilities

I think i could live with that. You can still soup, or mono-clan but with added battleline. Crossing all my fingers and toes 🤣

Edit: thikning about this some more, i'd like to see Eshin subfaction doing mortals on 5 instead of a 6 (if that's the way Eshin are going based on the new warband) Maybe the Skryre subfaction can take extra units with the warp-grinder (or come up 6" away instead of 9") The pestilens subfaction gives an extra rend, Moulder gets a ward save etc..) 

Am i just dreaming ??

That would be totally my preference, yeah. I also wouldn't like the anti-soup policy to hit skaven. We've kept being the soupiest race since 1986! The NH way would leave GW a feeling of control over the factions, and we could still keep a feeling of souping. 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:

Am i just dreaming ??

Maybe you are, but so are all of us.

[Darkhan]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:34 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

They really are.

but considering that,

the unit isn’t that bad, the hero is a pretty good deathmaster.

all in all we are basically paying 2x 110 points for 2units that really aren’t that bad.

I could actually see a combination with dreaded deathfrenzy and dreaded skitterleap with this assassin.

with 12 attacks, that model can be brutal, especially against the hero, he chose as his eshin target 

You gotta run two verminlords for that combo! I would not be surprised if you did it🤣

[Umjammerlama]

We are on.  Cant wait for Thursday.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

You gotta run two verminlords for that combo! I would not be surprised if you did it🤣

That shouldn’t be too hard.

I was even considering just running 4 verminlords and whatever number of clanrats would still fit in that list

4 minutes ago, Umjammerlama said:

We are on.  Cant wait for Thursday.

 

Yes-yes

fear-fear clan eshin

so basically I’ll be keeping my money far away from those two 40k chaos codexes I own the armies of.

they aren’t as much worth as the skaven.

sorry chaos dudes, Skaven are much-better-interesting 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Garrac]

Yes, if 40k needs something, that's rats