AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

On 12/21/2020 at 11:01 AM, GunslingerOy said:

I think I can convert up some gutter runners or some night runners. Not a competitive player, which one do people find more useful with 20 models available? I know that is kinda a loaded question without a list but I'm looking to do a little of everything

I'd go with Gutter Runners for their natural outflank ability.  They can snipe some weaklings from the edge wit their stars if they get lucky.  Then if they get luckier and make a charge they can stabby-stab someone else!  And then most likely die.  

[Skreech Verminking]

So after waiting  desperately in high hopes for the faq, I wrote down some of my biggest wishes for the skaventide faction in total.

most of these are well, what I believe to be a needed chance in points for the skaven faction.

Any comments are welcome, even those who do not like the faction at all!

 

Pointswishes for the skaven:

 

Thanqoul on Bonebreaker:360p

Warlock Bombardier: 100p

Warlock engineer:90p

Clawlord:80p

Deathmaster:50p

Plague priest:60p

Verminlord warbringer:260p

Verminlord corruptor:220p

Verminlord deceiver:280p

Skreech Verminking:240p

Master moulder:90p

 

Giant rats: (20-60): 80-200points

Rat ogres:  (2-8) 80p

Hell pit abomination: 200p

Rat swarms: (2-10) 40p

 

Clanrats: (20-60) 100-270p

Stormvermins: (10-40) 100-350p

 

Warplightning cannon: 160p

Warpgrinder team: 60p

Doom flayer weapon team: (1-3) 20p

 

Night runners: (10-40) 50-180p

Gutter runners: (5-20) 50-160p

 

Plague claw catapult: 110p

Plague censer bearers: (5-30) 50-250p

 

Warplightning vortex:100p (can only be used by skaven no more kharadron usage)

 

 

 

[Captain Squeekbeard]

I have yet to play a game with them, so I don't know how well the points fit. 

Maybe making doomflayers actually worth their points might be the better option here? On the other hand the look on your opponents face if you were showing up to a game with dozens of them might be really funny. 

 

I will add: Bring back the clawlord on broodhorror 

[AOS_Pete]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So after waiting  desperately in high hopes for the faq, I wrote down some of my biggest wishes for the skaventide faction in total.

most of these are well, what I believe to be a needed chance in points for the skaven faction.

Any comments are welcome, even those who do not like the faction at all!

 

Pointswishes for the skaven:

 

Thanqoul on Bonebreaker:360p

Warlock Bombardier: 100p

Warlock engineer:90p

Clawlord:80p

Deathmaster:50p

Plague priest:60p

Verminlord warbringer:260p

Verminlord corruptor:220p

Verminlord deceiver:280p

Skreech Verminking:240p

Master moulder:90p

 

Giant rats: (20-60): 80-200points

Rat ogres:  (2-8) 80p

Hell pit abomination: 200p

Rat swarms: (2-10) 40p

 

Clanrats: (20-60) 100-270p

Stormvermins: (10-40) 100-350p

 

Warplightning cannon: 160p

Warpgrinder team: 60p

Doom flayer weapon team: (1-3) 20p

 

Night runners: (10-40) 50-180p

Gutter runners: (5-20) 50-160p

 

Plague claw catapult: 110p

Plague censer bearers: (5-30) 50-250p

 

Warplightning vortex:100p (can only be used by skaven no more kharadron usage)

 

 

 

That would would make massive changes to our builds and move us upto a top tier army I think. I don't disagree we need some drastic changes to cope with some of the shooting meta tbh! Warp lighting vortex needs an amendment to its range I think. maybe not the full 24" but maybe 18 so we can clear our own units. Hope we get the winter FAQ soon!

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Captain Squeekbeard said:

I have yet to play a game with them, so I don't know how well the points fit. 

Maybe making doomflayers actually worth their points might be the better option here? On the other hand the look on your opponents face if you were showing up to a game with dozens of them might be really funny. 

 

I will add: Bring back the clawlord on broodhorror 

Yeah, warscroll chances would be awesome,

but knowing gw, that won’t happen in an Faq, unless it has been breaking the game so badly (like for example old plague monks).

as for my points-wishes, it is very likely that all of these points changes won’t happen or just barely . 

Knowing gw they wouldn’t even dare anything to rational, even if that unit should probably be almost free cause of horrible rules 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@GunslingerOy I would definitely recommend gutter runners. If you have 20 models to play with (the bloodbowl team Skavenblight Scramblers comes to mind) it'll be a max unit and a decent horde discount. "Elite" units are more fun/worth it for conversions and the time spent on them.  Either unit  has utility (the NR pre-game move is definitely valuable) however they currently do diddily-squat for damage. That said, I would invest in multiple units of either, I personally feel the new lore book releases are gonna update all of Eshin within the next year. 

[Coyote]

@Skreech Verminking I’m at the point - don’t change anything, we rarely see a rational change “to our benefit”.  

General rule of thumb is that if the rules change for a unit, the points go up to field.

Plague Catapult - Needs rewrite of rules - currently irrational to add to a list - It sucks.  One shot, too expensive, slow, and not worth it for close combat.  If it was fast, or had better re-roll for misses and wound, or was a beast in close combat, but it’s not.

Assassin - I wish I could spend a hero slot for more - maybe give them Mortal Wouns on characters?  Too little for too much.  They only average 2 wounds in combat.

Plague Censer Bearers - Should be squatted.  The monks do the same, the PCB are a dependent unit - they depend on the Monks to be around to be cooler.  I don’t field them.  They do the same battlefield roll as Monks, so I’m going to buy, build, and paint monks.

Would love to see a return of Mortars, but that ship has sailed.

Doom Flayers should be squatted, or rules changed.   Useless for points, like 50% chance it dies in combat every round of combat.  If rules change almost 100% that points go up.

Positive note - Everything I don’t mention I would rather they don’t touch unless we get a new book.  

 

 

[DocKeule]

Frankly I don't think that skaven will ever be much more than a fun army. And I am not sure if I would want them to.

 

Having a high tier competitive army usually neans heaving a meta and having to build the lists a certain way.

 

I enjoy to have the freedom to field as fluffy or wacky armies as I like.

 

Other than that I think you guys underrate a lot of our stuff. The plagueclaw for example can be good in the right role. If you have the battalion against another horde army you have a 2+ 2+ -2 rend 2W6 damage unit. That might be able to whipe out a big blob in one turn.

 

But I think we are doing OK with a mid-tier army. Sure with the current power creep every older battletome needs some tuning to keep up but I would rather have that happen in the new edition.

[Skreech Verminking]

58 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

Having a high tier competitive army usually neans heaving a meta and having to build the lists a certain way.

Yeah it is a pretty fun army, ns I don’t really care too much about the competitiveness, but I would really love to see a points decrease in most of our horde units.

a skaven army without a horde just isn’t right 

also please just please gw, if you hear me bring the max. Soze of clanrats and giant rats up to 60.

there is no reason why they shouldn't get it

Edited December 24, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, DocKeule said:

I enjoy to have the freedom to field as fluffy or wacky armies as I like.

The same rights as I have to field an army of 400clanrats and a single hero.

let the tide scurry-rise!!

[DocKeule]

9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yeah it is a pretty fun army, ns I don’t really care too much about the competitiveness, but I would really love to see a points decrease in most of our horde units.

a skaven army without a horde just isn’t right 

also please just please gw, if you hear me bring the max. Soze of clanrats and giant rats up to 60.

there is no reason why they shouldn't get it

Problem is that everbody would have to field 60 man units then to get the point discount.

 

I think 40 clanrats is OK and you can always bring more clanrat units if you want more bodies on the table.

9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

The same rights as I have to field an army of 400clanrats and a single hero.

let the tide scurry-rise!!

You sure can. If I play my maxed clawpack and maxed congregation of filth I have more than 240 models.

 

For me personally even if I want go horde that is enough and I still want some of the more fancy stuff.

[Skreech Verminking]

31 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

1Problem is that everbody would have to field 60 man units then to get the point discount.

 

1.1I think 40 clanrats is OK and you can always bring more clanrat units if you want more bodies on the table.

You sure can. If I play my maxed clawpack and maxed congregation of filth I have more than 240 models.

 

3For me personally even if I want go horde that is enough and I still want some of the more fancy stuff.

You can play 380clanrats and the cheapest hero.

not 400, sadly although that up there was mostly just meant as a joke, considering that I very likely won’t take that many clanrats to a tournament. But maybe 260might do the trick.

as for the 60man squads.

clanrats are basically just meat-shields, they are bad at killing stuff (which I hope won’t chance a bit).

there is nothing special about them, and they have more or less the same rolle as a stabba or shoota.

unlike most other armies, these guys are literally meant to be trash that come in hordes.

and I would really love seeing that.

have our true horde units be given that size.

Make them that true horde army, give them that true horde feeling,

rise-scurry to victory!!!

uahahaha.

1well that depends, you could easily chance that with lowering their total points to a 100per 20, and giving them basically no horde bonus, but I don’t quite know what gw usually do with points. Most of the time they don’t really care enough, which is tragic.

 

1.1 Not exactly, unlike most of the other armies skaven and goblins well literally go to war in unorganized hordes, most of the time, which actually is and would pretty well fit with the horde size of 60.

Humans and other armies are at least in fluff, more organized for whoch reason having max. Sizes of 40would be plausible.

think of it like this huge swarms of bodies is harder to command then a handful of people.

never enough clanrats!!!!!

3) yeah having some fancy stuff is great, but that horde unit size of 60 would be the greatest thing gw has done in years for the skaven, only being trumped by the skaventide battetome they thankfully brought out.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Lord Krungharr]

So what I’m gathering is that I should get some clanrats And not go 9 Stormfiends for battle-line?  🐀 

That would let me take a plague priest or two and some gutter runners with my current Skryre models (got a lightning cannon, 2 doomwheels, arch warlock and two engineers ).  

Also are gnaw-holes worth buying?  Harder to place the faction terrain these days, and have to have a hero in range to use those, plus another $50.  

How about the endless spells?   Endless spells while occasionally amazing never seem to do much for me.   They either fail to cast or get dispelled, and always cost points.   I’d be more inclined to get the Skaven ones if I played KO and their spell in a bottle ****** 🙄 

[DocKeule]

If you buy stormfiends for battleline you have to run an all Skryre list. Those can be pretty strong and are the most elite build that skaven have. I you want to use different clans and mixed lists clanrats or storm vermin are the way to go I think.

Gnaw holes can be pretty good to have a unit speedtravel across the table. Also in can force your opponent to leave units behind to keep you from using your gnaw holes.

[Lord Krungharr]

Found some gnawholes at my FLGS tonight.  Still seems like GW isn’t shipping stuff very much lately as they’re slim pickings it there.  Many battletomes out of stock and few new things.   Could be different at the local GW store, haven’t checked there yet for things. 

[gillio]

Folks I just got some skaven for Christmas (20 stormvermin, grey seer and an warlord)

And I'm looking to order some stuff to start into a full army.

I'm considering buying a Start collecting & verminlord I'd like to go skyre in the end using some wonderful proxy acolytes, would the start collecting be a waste?

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, gillio said:

Folks I just got some skaven for Christmas (20 stormvermin, grey seer and an warlord)

And I'm looking to order some stuff to start into a full army.

I'm considering buying a Start collecting & verminlord I'd like to go skyre in the end using some wonderful proxy acolytes, would the start collecting be a waste?

Depends, if your interested in using either plague monks as conversion, or are interested in playing them.

if it is just the  cannon you want, you’ll probably get it cheaper by just buying it on its lonesome self

 

[gillio]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

Depends, if your interested in using either plague monks as conversion, or are interested in playing them.

if it is just the  cannon you want, you’ll probably get it cheaper by just buying it on its lonesome self

 

I'm also considering playing pestilins but I do love the mad weapons of skyre so it's a tough choice

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, gillio said:

I'm also considering playing pestilins but I do love the mad weapons of skyre so it's a tough choice

Well then it probably isn’t a bad option. Just remember to build the plague claw as a Warp-lightning cannon.

 

[gillio]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

Well then it probably isn’t a bad option. Just remember to build the plague claw as a Warp-lightning cannon.

 

So this is a stupid question.

 

Could I run the army as masterclan and use all the units?

[Skreech Verminking]

20 minutes ago, gillio said:

So this is a stupid question.

 

Could I run the army as masterclan and use all the units?

Well technically you can’t play an army of only masterclan units, since they only have heroes.

but  you could play a mixed force of ratman, although you might need 3units of either clanrats or Storvmermins, to be able to do so, since they are in this case our only battleline options.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[gillio]

What are the thoughts on this to begin with?

I'm planning on going down the Skyre line but it's just adding a pack of clan rats + start collecting (cheaper than buying the bell + warp lightning cannon alone) and a verminlord.

++ **Pitched Battle** 1500(Chaos - Skaven) [1,490pts] ++

+ Leader +

Clawlord [100pts]: 1. Malevolent, 1. Things-Bane, General - Clans Verminous

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell [240pts]: 3. Skitterleap

Verminlord Warbringer [280pts]

Warlock Engineer [110pts]: 1. More-more-more Warp Power!

+ Artillery +

Warp Lightning Cannon [180pts]

+ Battleline +

Clanrats [120pts]: 20 Clanrats, Rusty Blades

Stormvermin [100pts]: 10 Stormvermin, Pack Drummers, Standard Bearers

Stormvermin [100pts]: 10 Stormvermin, Pack Drummers, Standard Bearers

+ Other +

Stormfiends [260pts]: 3 Stormfiends, Doomflayer Gauntlets, Ratling Cannons, Warpfire Projectors

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Allegiance: Skaventide

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 1500 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [1,490pts] ++

 

[Skreech Verminking]

41 minutes ago, gillio said:

2)What are the thoughts on this to begin with?

1)I'm planning on going down the Skyre line but it's just adding a pack of clan rats + start collecting (cheaper than buying the bell + warp lightning cannon alone) and a verminlord.

++ **Pitched Battle** 1500(Chaos - Skaven) [1,490pts] ++

+ Leader +

Clawlord [100pts]: 1. Malevolent, 1. Things-Bane, General - Clans Verminous

Grey Seer on Screaming Bell [240pts]: 3. Skitterleap

Verminlord Warbringer [280pts]

Warlock Engineer [110pts]: 1. More-more-more Warp Power!

+ Artillery +

Warp Lightning Cannon [180pts]

+ Battleline +

Clanrats [120pts]: 20 Clanrats, Rusty Blades

Stormvermin [100pts]: 10 Stormvermin, Pack Drummers, Standard Bearers

Stormvermin [100pts]: 10 Stormvermin, Pack Drummers, Standard Bearers

+ Other +

Stormfiends [260pts]: 3 Stormfiends, Doomflayer Gauntlets, Ratling Cannons, Warpfire Projectors

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Allegiance: Skaventide

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 1500 Points - Battlehost

++ Total: [1,490pts] ++

 

1) yes the start collecting comes 10dollars cheaper, then buying the Warplightning cannon and screaming bell, although a start collecting plus a unit of clanrats does cost around 10-20bugs more then the screaming bell and cannon bought alone, so it is mostly depending on what direction you are most interested in heading towards.

2)If your just looking for some fun time playing the skaven, basically anything goes.

 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

On 12/27/2020 at 8:57 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Also are gnaw-holes worth buying?  Harder to place the faction terrain these days, and have to have a hero in range to use those, plus another $50.  

How about the endless spells?   Endless spells while occasionally amazing never seem to do much for me.   They either fail to cast or get dispelled, and always cost points.   I’d be more inclined to get the Skaven ones if I played KO and their spell in a bottle ****** 🙄

To approach this from another angle, I dont think its worth buying them, but rather take them as a hobby opportunity to make your own. This should be true for any faction really. I was first inspired by how clumsy and impractical it was to store/field skaven stuff so i made my own and learned a lot! Save yourself some money and just find the right base profile to go ham on.

[Lord Krungharr]

That is a great suggestion!  I did already get the Gnawholes, but I think I'll customize the thingies on top to be more Skryrey.  Would be neat to make the Endless Spells though, I'll give that a whirl.