CanHammer-darren Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Can’t find it on overcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 Super happy to see portal nerfed, as now all of the Nagash bandwagoning should subside. Also happy to see that ES are clarified to not be usable through a portal (I'm not going to say I told you so... much). Going to be an interesting time making Nagash "work" now. The question is, do we still run spellportal? I believe that the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, ianob said: Super happy to see portal nerfed, as now all of the Nagash bandwagoning should subside. Also happy to see that ES are clarified to not be usable through a portal (I'm not going to say I told you so... much). Going to be an interesting time making Nagash "work" now. The question is, do we still run spellportal? I believe that the answer is yes. Yeah, I think if you are running Nagash then a spellportal is still probably worth it just because of Hand of Dust. On the plus side you no longer need to worry so much about killing a lens bearer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwatt1 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 hours ago, ianob said: Super happy to see portal nerfed, as now all of the Nagash bandwagoning should subside. Also happy to see that ES are clarified to not be usable through a portal (I'm not going to say I told you so... much). Going to be an interesting time making Nagash "work" now. The question is, do we still run spellportal? I believe that the answer is yes. Awesome news to see, will you be covering the faq on the next episode Ian? Yeah it's either keep portal or swap for cogs in my mind. I see they didn't cover getting the free endless spells from opponent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Lwatt1 said: Awesome news to see, will you be covering the faq on the next episode Ian? Yeah it's either keep portal or swap for cogs in my mind. I see they didn't cover getting the free endless spells from opponent We will indeed, though I expect it’ll just be to say that all of the changes were good and needed! (except the spellportal change, which I think wasn’t needed, Magic armies should be able to extend their range the same way shooting armies can and melee armies can deepstrike... but I’m ok with it since I can probably play Nagash in peace now). They did cover that - it’s in the Malign Sorcery docs. Thankfully! I’m presently trying not to gloat in the Tzeentch and Endless Spell-spellportal threads, but is really difficult with how toxic people were in those discussions not to say I told you so ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 hours ago, ianob said: Super happy to see portal nerfed, as now all of the Nagash bandwagoning should subside. Also happy to see that ES are clarified to not be usable through a portal (I'm not going to say I told you so... much). Going to be an interesting time making Nagash "work" now. The question is, do we still run spellportal? I believe that the answer is yes. I too am happy they reigned Spell Portal in. It reminded me of Survival of the Fittest in Magic the Gathering. In a vacuum it wasn't a problem per say but the few lists that could use it, could really use it. It was just too much of an enabler for stupid things. They also added a specific sentence to the errata regarding infinite set ups of predatory spells which amuses me. It was so clearly not intended but still an as written stupid interaction. As for ESs and casting through Spell Portal, you guessed correct on that coinflip and remained vigilant as to how GW would interpret their own poorly written rules. Kudos. I wouldn't let it stroke your ego too much because as a smarter man than me once put it regarding the entire debate, "the wording is so unclear and inconsistent that it’s a pretty pointless." I mean, you were wrong regarding GOS taking Lore Spells though so we call it a wash on this round of Arbitrarily Predicting GW's FAQs, my friend. I'm just messing around though. I feel we've had enough amicable interactions I can bust your chops a bit. As for do we still take Spell Portal w/ Nagash? Yes, because it allows us to participate in casting at least one important spell at all on Turn One. That it's one spell makes it a meaningful decision. The cheeky 50/50 Hand of Dust was only ever icing on the onslaught of debuffs cake. I like how you put it already, Ianob. Alpha Strike and Shooting armies tend to have ways to participate in the thing they want to do turn one (melee or shooting respectively). Spell Portal still allows us to participate in our strong magic Turn One. It's just not oppressive anymore. It's just not "the obvious best thing" anymore. Besides, the nerf to spell portal isn't as big of a nerf to us as it is say Tzeentch which shrinks the gap between "the best spell armies" (Death, Tzeentch, Seraphon, etc) and I think that's a pretty important takeaway from the change. I do think Sacrament (which I also run) just got better by subtraction from others though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 In fairness I always said that the GoS spells were clearly not intended but RAW ? I mean we will likely never cast HoD turn 1 anymore. Now Nagash just has an ability that says “enemies prefer not to set up within 23 inches”instead, which is plenty fine. Lens nerf is a buff to us too. Everything is fine for Nagash in terms of spells really. I agree with you about it still letting us participate. Also, similarly agree on LoS. I have an LoS list that was actually outperforming Nagash in testing but it relied on ES being cast through the portal (was my “just in case” list). Now it may be possible that Arkhan is better than Nagash - an extra unit of Grims and change is nothing to sneeze at, neither is being in a better legion - but Nagash is (and to some extent always was) a Support piece and his command ability would be missed. This is such a huge topic we could write a book on it. I’m going to stop now! Can’t wait for this week’s games to try Newgash out, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 @ianob, Good luck and good gaming. They also didn't nerf Arkhan's CA yet so you can lob a spell through a spell portal and then CP stack a second spell to reach out and touch someone. Or hold back on spell portal turn one, use his CPs. Then Portal (or vice versa) when you have more information on enemy movement. Point is, LOS has a lot more options and flexibility that look even more appealing with the nerfs to other caster armies. I mean I was already leaning toward my one Corpse Cart + Mortis Engine Build anyway... This will be a tough decision on which list to bring to Gencon next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 For Nagash, Arkhan (instead of Portal) has gone up in stock now I believe, though I still don’t consider two big dudes to be that viable to be honest. The Stormcastpocalypse is about to gut the tournament season anyway, so at least we’ll be able to guarantee everything is in range to cast on T1... they’ll come to us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, ianob said: The Stormcastpocalypse is about to gut the tournament season anyway Is there anything special you are refering to? A popular build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, kozokus said: Is there anything special you are refering to? A popular build? Sequitors and Evocators are both just insane, as are the new SC allegiance and stormhost abilities. As an army they also fit perfectly with the new missions (or rather, abuse the issues with the missions better than most). They have auto dispels everywhere and can mortal wound bomb as they choose. They have an army wide +3 to charges. They bring back whole units in a random roll, pile in extra times with units that deal huge numbers of mortals whenever they fight, etc. The only reason you haven’t seen them all over the scene yet is that people are still painting armies. Come BoBo and Blackout in the next couple of weeks they will be everywhere and people will be back to moaning about Stormcast again (rightfully so, playing vs them is miserable). This is why it’s so hilarious seeing spellportal nerfed. The real, noninteractive, turn-1-alpha-strike-game-is-over degenerate cheese hasn’t even hit for most people yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, ianob said: The real, noninteractive, turn 1 alpha strike game is over degenerate cheese hasn’t even hit for most people yet. Yeah, maybe, also looks like some prophet of D00M's babbling. Daughters and Slayers are not imressed. Sure the comet and the Prime are raining stars but if you rely in couple of D3 MW to destroy your ennemy, then you are ill prepared or you are faceing a very cool ennemy. If Doom-Drops scares you, then use chaff, as always. And if Nagash can do something good, then it is chaff. Sure Evocators make things disapear, but they are paper thin. And i am more afraid of orange dwarfs than a bunch of rerolling sequitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, kozokus said: Yeah, maybe, also looks like some prophet of D00M's babbling. Daughters and Slayers are not imressed. Sure the comet and the Prime are raining stars but if you rely in couple of D3 MW to destroy your ennemy, then you are ill prepared or you are faceing a very cool ennemy. If Doom-Drops scares you, then use chaff, as always. And if Nagash can do something good, then it is chaff. Sure Evocators make things disapear, but they are paper thin. And i am more afraid of orange dwarfs than a bunch of rerolling sequitors. None of the lists that are worrying use either comet or Prime. Feel free to call it babbling, I’m actually playing these lists (and against them) in testing. If you’re afraid of Fyreslayers, you’re playing the wrong game right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 This might not be the right place to ask but since it was brought up. If you use arkhans command ability twice would it stack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Nm, just re-read it. Cannot stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, WillofNagash said: Nm, just re-read it. Cannot stack. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Not to derail death topic to much but I am suprised evocators celestial lightning arc didn't get nerfed. I think it just confirms not many people are playing with them yet. Piling in be damned, if one unit in a block of 20 attacks all 20 get to roll for mortal wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 3:21 PM, kenshin620 said: Where there realm specific artifacts at your games? I've been hearing some tournaments considering to ban them primarily because their balance is quite wonky (well it is kind of hard to balance 7 realms x 12 items) especially in reference to either Lens of Refraction or almost the entire Shadow/Ulgu realm artifact list. There used to be quite literally hundreds of magic items in Warhammer, and tournaments were fine with them. Event organizers should back off with the ban stick and just let people play the darn game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 On 7/21/2018 at 3:48 AM, ianob said: No idea why you can’t see my sig! FWIW, I don't see your sig either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianob Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, Sleboda said: FWIW, I don't see your sig either. I don’t think signatures show up by default on mobile, or do you just not see my sig and you do see others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Ah. It's probably a mobile thing. I don't see any. I really, really ... Really wish there was a user guide for this forum software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillofNagash Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 14 hours ago, kozokus said: Why not? Because it says “if Arkhan uses this ability, then...” therefore even if he used it 3 times it would only count as him having used the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoalaSnok Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 56 minutes ago, WillofNagash said: Because it says “if Arkhan uses this ability, then...” therefore even if he used it 3 times it would only count as him having used the ability. This is how all Command Abilites pre-2.0 are worded. Per FAQ you can stack Command Abilites by using them several times unless specifically stated otherwise on that particular CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDrakonus Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I really want to do a nagash list after I finish my nighthaunts, I've been following this thread, @ianob /anybody else what do you think of this list 2000 Grand Host of Nagash 1 Command points 6 drops Battalions/Endless Spells Umbral Spellportal 60 Aethervoid Pendulum 40 Quicksilver Swords 20 Heros Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead 800 (AMETHYSTINE PINIONS/OVERWHELMING DREAD/AMARANTHINE ORB) Necromancer 110 (FADING VIGOUR) Vampire Lord 140 (FLYING HORROR/VILE TRANSFERENCE/Terrorgheist Mantle) Battleline 40 Skeleton Warriors 280 (Ancient Spear) 40 Skeleton Warriors 280 (Ancient Spear) 2 Morghast Archai 220 Army total 1950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Peanut Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 hours ago, LordDrakonus said: I really want to do a nagash list after I finish my nighthaunts, I've been following this thread, @ianob /anybody else what do you think of this list 2000 Grand Host of Nagash 1 Command points 6 drops Battalions/Endless Spells Umbral Spellportal 60 Aethervoid Pendulum 40 Quicksilver Swords 20 Heros Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead 800 (AMETHYSTINE PINIONS/OVERWHELMING DREAD/AMARANTHINE ORB) Necromancer 110 (FADING VIGOUR) Vampire Lord 140 (FLYING HORROR/VILE TRANSFERENCE/Terrorgheist Mantle) Battleline 40 Skeleton Warriors 280 (Ancient Spear) 40 Skeleton Warriors 280 (Ancient Spear) 2 Morghast Archai 220 Army total 1950 I think that list is just not flixible, the skeletons are very slow and you cannot react on you opponent. When I started to create lists, most of the times I had a scenario in mind what I will do and what the big hit with this army is, but what I always forgot is to think what would the opponent do and how can I react on their decisions. In this case you have Nagash the on and only much points but do not forget that he is not your damage dealer. He is a zoning and support hero which is doing an amazing job. With you necro and you vampire lord you can buff your skeletons and yes you vamp has a good movement, but he is alone. If the rest of the army is at the back. Skelletons are a very good tarpit unit, with a necro they also can do some serious damage but two units of them is in a 2k game to much. To be honest, I am drunk and I just wrote what came to my mind... but this is my opinion on this list. Too much thinking what you can do with it, but missing the enemy in it. PEANUT OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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