AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Tittliewinks22]

Have my first games with the new book in a week. (finishing up a few models)
Opponents will be on Sylvaneth, Kruelboyz, and Skaven

Here's the first list I am going to run:
Barak - Zon
Honour is Everything
Always Take What You Are Owed
Without Our Ships We Are Naught

Warlord Battalion: 
1 Admiral (Stormcaller, Masterwrought Armour)
1 Navigator (Voidstone Orb)
1 Codewright
1 Grundstok Gunhauler (Drill Cannon, Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments)

Attack Squadron:
10 Arkanaut Company (Pike, Skyhook, Volley Gun)
10 Arkanaut Company (Pike, Skyhook, Volley Gun)
1 Frigate (Heavy Skyhook)
1 Frigate (Heavy Sky Cannon)

Vanguard Battalion:
1 Endrinmaster with Endrinharness
9 Skywardens (Pikes)
6 Endrinriggers (2 Aethermatic Volley Guns, 2 Drill Launchers)

 

[Tizianolol]

Guys do you know if I can do "rally" with my endriniggers inside the boat?

[cofaxest]

4 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys do you know if I can do "rally" with my endriniggers inside the boat?

If your boat isn't within 3" of the enemy unit - yes. But I believe you can't rally more models then boat can contain.

[Beliman]

Two more questions:

1. Can we use the Grapnel Launcher ability when our skyriggers are still inside of any skyvessel?
2. Doens't matter how many Fumigators do you have in the same unit, you will only roll 1 dice to do 1D3 mw. Is that right?

[Grungnisson]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Two more questions:

1. Can we use the Grapnel Launcher ability when our skyriggers are still inside of any skyvessel?
2. Doens't matter how many Fumigators do you have in the same unit, you will only roll 1 dice to do 1D3 mw. Is that right?

1. I'd say no. I'm reading it this way because we know that embarked unit makes the same move as the vessel, but not other way round.

2. Really needs an FAQ, but I'd say only once if you have two Fumigators in a reinforced unit of Thunderers (so 10 models, 2 Fumigators). However, the wording (until it gets FAQ-ed) does not say that 'the same unit can't be affected by this ability more than once', so if you have two (or more) Thunderers units within range of the same enemy unit, then ptrsumably they all could deal Fumigator damage.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Grungnisson said:

1. I'd say no. I'm reading it this way because we know that embarked unit makes the same move as the vessel, but not other way round.

2. Really needs an FAQ, but I'd say only once if you have two Fumigators in a reinforced unit of Thunderers (so 10 models, 2 Fumigators). However, the wording (until it gets FAQ-ed) does not say that 'the same unit can't be affected by this ability more than once', so if you have two (or more) Thunderers units within range of the same enemy unit, then ptrsumably they all could deal Fumigator damage.

1.  Take in mind that only Skyriggers are using that ability, and it's not a move (it's a set-up). 
2. I suppose you are right, but I'm not so sure because it only triggers once: you only pick 1 enemy unit within 3" of our thunderers is there is a fumigator (doens't matter if you have more than one). That's my main doubt about this ability.

Btw, units on a skyvessel count as being made the same type of move, aka, not the same move. There is nothing that explicity says what "type of move" means, but we have a FAQ that talks about it:

Quote

Q: What happens when a unit that has been split into two groups because of casualties piles in?
A: A unit must finish any type of move as a single group, including pile-in moves. If this is impossible for any reason, no models from the unit can move

We can assume that Pile-in, charge, retreat and run are types of move. In other words, a charge roll is not a type of move, it's a part of the charge move. So, a Hero with the Tuskhelmet shoudn't be able to use the same roll as the frigate.

[Boar]

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

Two more questions:

1. Can we use the Grapnel Launcher ability when our skyriggers are still inside of any skyvessel?
2. Doens't matter how many Fumigators do you have in the same unit, you will only roll 1 dice to do 1D3 mw. Is that right?

1. As it stands yes. This is not move just setup. So you could also escape from combat that way and not count as retreat!

2. Yes:
Essentially it is pick one enemy unit from those fulfilling criteria laid by ability, if you do so you can resolve ability vs. that unit.

Some folk still persist in other interpretation, that however rests on differentiating fumigators in one unit, which ability does not do in any way shape or form. There is only check "IF close to fumigator", period. And than you resolve ability.

@Grungnisson

From what I see there is nothing to stop this ability working on  one enemy unit from 2 different Thunderers unit.

Generally problem with thinking about this ability is that people start thinking of fumigator doing something,

It is not so.

It is ABILITY on UNIT, and so it resolves once per UNIT that have this ABILITY, and it can affect same enemy unit by many Thunderers UNITs

[Tizianolol]

Thx yestorday i played a game with my friend. Can I embark a unit within 3" of a boat if this unit dont move and after move boat?

During the game i pop my endriniggers out of a frigate, they fought and turn after i wanna embark again them. They were within 3" of the boat and at the end of movement i embarked them again. Can I move the boat? Thx a lot:)

[Beliman]

57 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Thx yestorday i played a game with my friend. Can I embark a unit within 3" of a boat if this unit dont move and after move boat?

Doesn't matter if the ship has moved or not, because moving a ship only affects Disembark. But remember that you can only embark after a move from your unit. That means that you need to move at least 0",  that allows you to embark. It's not a problem in your movement phase, but you need Redeploy to embark in enemies movement phase.

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

During the game i pop my endriniggers out of a frigate, they fought and turn after i wanna embark again them. They were within 3" of the boat and at the end of movement i embarked them again. Can I move the boat? Thx a lot:)

Yes.

[BBQTendies]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:01 AM, Grungnisson said:

Would love to see it in FAQ, but at the moment I don't see a problem with reading it the other way. Embarked units are treated as having done the same move. The reading of 'well, it wasn't HIS move' at the moment seems to me to be a bit too vague to be intentional, more like an accident since the rules for the battletome and the GHB were written independently. So either say specifically that the effects do not stack, or - to me -  the intent in the battletome rules is that the move is treated the same for both the boat and the unit and so are the effects.

Your reading the rule wrong though, they count as having made the same TYPE of move, not count as having done the same move. This implies its a differenet "move"

[Tizianolol]

Guys if im already in combat woth my boat, can I try to disembark if units inside remain more then 3" from enemy units?

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys if im already in combat woth my boat, can I try to disembark if units inside remain more then 3" from enemy units?

Yes, and remember that it's a set-up and not a retreat (embarked units can't move). So, you can shoot/charge after disembark.

[Grontik]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:41 AM, Beliman said:

Yes, and remember that it's a set-up and not a retreat (embarked units can't move). So, you can shoot/charge after disembark.

Wasn’t thinking of doing this in the movement phase but it is an interesting tactic. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Grontik
Was wrong

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, Grontik said:

Is that right? Being embarked still puts them within 3” of the enemy so I would think they can only pile in like everyone else. 

Imo, it should to be legal.
Embarked units can't do any move (source: Sky-fleet Battle Trait), in other words, our units can't Pile In if they are embarked and within 3" of an enemy unit.

We can only disembark. And Disembark is a set-up with only one restriction (can't be set-up within 3" of an enemy), same as using grapnel to tp from an skyvessel. Take in mind that most of teleports still have "instead of normal move/whatever" and that means that your unit needs to be available to do the normal move/ whatever, but it's not our case anymore.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Beliman

[Grontik]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:41 AM, Beliman said:

Yes, and remember that it's a set-up and not a retreat (embarked units can't move). So, you can shoot/charge after disembark.

Yeah once I thought about it some more it makes sense but I’m new to KO so a lot of their shenanigans take some getting used to. The way transport vessels work is totally unique so I am having to rewire my thinking a little. Like how units embarked can still fight and shoot makes my brain short out until I put it in terms of garrisoning. Thanks for your feedback.

[Grontik]

Can anybody think of a reason why I couldn’t use the “There’s no reward without risk” footnote for my ironclad that has the Battle Ram? Because rolling 3d6 on 4+ MWs is very crunchy but want to make sure I’m not forgetting something. 

[Beliman]

11 hours ago, Grontik said:

Can anybody think of a reason why I couldn’t use the “There’s no reward without risk” footnote for my ironclad that has the Battle Ram? Because rolling 3d6 on 4+ MWs is very crunchy but want to make sure I’m not forgetting something. 

Completely legal!

[Beliman]

So, how do you find the new book? Do you want to see something cleared or changed in our FAQ?

Imo, we are good and fun to play, but there are some shenanigans that should be cleared:

• Screaming Bridge tp-ing a ship should not allow embarked units to disembark and then move later in the turn. I know the bridge is a set-up, but it's clearly not intended to allow units to move after using it (embarked units too).
• Tuskhelmet: A lot of Tournaments are still using this trick, but I'm not sure that it's intended.
• Choking Fug should trigger for each fumigator model in your unit.

Redeploy to embark seems fine and intended. Compared to other defensive mechanics (2+save that ignore -2 Rend, reduce damage, Ward save, ressurect each Hero Phase, Summoning, etc...), it doens't seems a lot, and we are still short on models.

As a wish, I would like to see other Duardin units part of the Thryng army as Coaliton units. That would be a dream!!

Edited April 18, 2023 by Beliman

[Beliman]

New Kharadron Overlords FAQ. It seems that a lot was answered (copy&paste from Rumors Thread):

Quote

• Tuskhelmet can't be used (it was not legal, it still is not legal!).
• Chocking Fug for each Fumigator equiped.
• Bridge+Movement shenanigan: It was not intended, now we have a have a FAQ.
• Redeploy units to embark: No FAQ, completely legal! Let's gooo!
• All embar/disembark "cheats" made by wording are gone.
• Enemy can Unleas Hell even if the charging unit is a Skyvessel with some embarked units.

I still miss the KHEMIST keyword and an Augmentation ability for Bjorgen and maybe a ADMIRAL keyword for Drekki (even if he is just a Captain, he should issue all avaliable Commands to the Aesling).

What do you think? Do you expected the same FAQs?

Edited May 11, 2023 by Beliman
New point

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

New Kharadron Overlords FAQ. It seems that a lot was answered (copy&paste from Rumors Thread):

I still miss the KHEMIST keyword and an Augmentation ability for Bjorgen and maybe a ADMIRAL keyword for Drekki (even if he is just a Captain, he should issue all avaliable Commands to the Aesling).

What do you think? Do you expected the same FAQs?

The fulminator confirmation is pretty huge, make Thunderers have much more of a punch while engaged.

The unique thing i'm sad about is the disengage still not letting the units inside the boat shoot, but with the current winrate of the book may it is for the best.

[Beliman]

20 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

The unique thing i'm sad about is the disengage still not letting the units inside the boat shoot, but with the current winrate of the book may it is for the best.

But you can shoot! It's in Disengage description:

Quote

That unit and any units embarked in it can retreat and still shoot later in the turn.

Take in mind that the FAQ that don't allow embarked units to shoot after disengage because that units has made a Retreat move to embark:

Quote

Q: If a Transport Vessel receives the ‘Disengage’ command, can any units that retreated before embarking in that Transport Vessel still shoot in that turn?

A: No.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Beliman

[Arzalyn]

18 hours ago, Beliman said:

But you can shoot! It's in Disengage description:

Ops, I got the wrong command! I was thinking about the admiral run and shoot only letting the ship shoot.

Thanks for the correction and clarification!

[Mnch]

what do u think about a 30 arkanauts unit + priest in thryng?

 

[Beliman]

14 hours ago, Mnch said:

what do u think about a 30 arkanauts unit + priest in thryng?

Imo, it needs a lot of set-up and I don't know if it will be enough.

You will need some CPs for Rally+Inspiring Presence for that 30 man-blob, and you can't use Ex-Grundstock free CP on them, so you are forced to give them some support appart from the Priest. Btw, the Priest will be a big target: killing him remove an entire subfaction rule.

To make the most use of this combo, you need to go for an alpha-strike, but Arkanauts have 9" range (appart from the volley cannon). You will need a a ship (Ironclad+20 arkanauts), Footnote for Fly High and Combat Landing and an Admiral (RIP Bridge). At this point, I'm not sure if it's worth taking all that combo.

I like that the Runelord has +2 to unbind and the Runemaster give you +1CP extra CP on your turn.

[Beliman]

So, new GHB with new rules!

It seems that we are going to play in a magic-land of ice and frost. That means that without the Magic Book, we are going to have an extra CP for non-magic Heroes with 9 or less wounds:

Another thing to point out is that we are going to have another type of enhancement for armies without any Wizard:

What do you think? What would you like to see removed or improved?