AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Grungnisson]

38 minutes ago, Flippy said:

But the other options for Frigate are all meh and now the movement has a real purpose - you want this ship to fly over enemies and make a charge.

Depends how durable it'll prove to be. With my skill to roll 1's on units jumping out (and Endrinrigger's bombelets, may I add), it's probably still chutes for me.

[Arzalyn]

Got some games against Sons, Ironjawz and Tzeentch toda, all wins! Was using a list made of mostly what I have built (posting it bellow). My takes so far:

- 4+ up rally is really good (as expected), but it is hard to get use some times (units still in combat during the hero phase or attacks destroy all the models).

- 2d6 run is really good, gives a nice burst of speed for our slow foot troops.

- Nar extra CP is cool, got 2 extra most of the time. Some turns it was a little over kill, as the admiral with the trait already provided 2 free cp. Probably will go with Urbaz next time for the wound amendment.

- Thunderers can hold their ground really well with the 3+ save and the -1 to hit debuff. Were the standout unit all the games, together with riggers melee.

- Riggers healing with a endrinmaster is really solid, make your enemy think twice about trying to do chip damage to our boats.

- Disembarking command is my favorite change from the new book by far! Being able to move and then put the thunderers+khermist down is gold.

- In 2 of my games I didn't even cast the purple sun. Much harder to use it without the hero movement. I will drop it from future lists to see if I miss it or not.

Spoiler

- Army Faction: Kharadron Overlords
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Inspired
     - Kharadron Overlords Amendments:  Prosecute Wars With All Haste
     - Kharadron Overlords Artycles:  Honour is Everything
     - Kharadron Overlords Footnotes:  Without Our Ships, We Are Naught
       - Sky-port: Barak-Nar, City of the First Sunrise
LEADERS
Aetheric Navigator (85)*
Aether-Khemist (80)*
     - Aspects of the Champion:  Stubborn as a Rhinox
       - Artefacts of Power: Spell in a Bottle
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (170)*
     - Artefacts of Power: Celestium Burst-Grenade
Arkanaut Admiral (125)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Ex-Grundstok
BATTLELINE
Arkanaut Company (100)**
     - Light Skyhook and Gun Butt
     - Skypike
     - Aetherflare Pistol
     - Aethermatic Volley Gun and Gun Butt
Arkanaut Company (100)**
     - Light Skyhook and Gun Butt
     - Skypike
     - Aetherflare Pistol
     - Aethermatic Volley Gun and Gun Butt
Grundstok Gunhauler (170)*
Grundstok Thunderers (270)**
     - Gunnery Sergeant
     - 2 x Honour Bearer
     - 2 x Grundstok Mortar
     - 2 x Aethercannon
     - 2 x Aetheric Fumigator
     - 2 x Decksweeper
Endrinriggers (240)**
     - Mizzenmaster
     - Grapnel Launcher and Gun Butt
Endrinriggers (120)**
     - Mizzenmaster
BEHEMOTH
Arkanaut Ironclad (500)**
     - Great Volley Cannon
     - Great Endrinworks:  The Last Word
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1960/2000

 

[Skreech Verminking]

9 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

Got some games against Sons, Ironjawz and Tzeentch toda, all wins! Was using a list made of mostly what I have built (posting it bellow). My takes so far:

- 4+ up rally is really good (as expected), but it is hard to get use some times (units still in combat during the hero phase or attacks destroy all the models).

- 2d6 run is really good, gives a nice burst of speed for our slow foot troops.

- Nar extra CP is cool, got 2 extra most of the time. Some turns it was a little over kill, as the admiral with the trait already provided 2 free cp. Probably will go with Urbaz next time for the wound amendment.

- Thunderers can hold their ground really well with the 3+ save and the -1 to hit debuff. Were the standout unit all the games, together with riggers melee.

- Riggers healing with a endrinmaster is really solid, make your enemy think twice about trying to do chip damage to our boats.

- Disembarking command is my favorite change from the new book by far! Being able to move and then put the thunderers+khermist down is gold.

- In 2 of my games I didn't even cast the purple sun. Much harder to use it without the hero movement. I will drop it from future lists to see if I miss it or not.

  Reveal hidden contents

- Army Faction: Kharadron Overlords
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Inspired
     - Kharadron Overlords Amendments:  Prosecute Wars With All Haste
     - Kharadron Overlords Artycles:  Honour is Everything
     - Kharadron Overlords Footnotes:  Without Our Ships, We Are Naught
       - Sky-port: Barak-Nar, City of the First Sunrise
LEADERS
Aetheric Navigator (85)*
Aether-Khemist (80)*
     - Aspects of the Champion:  Stubborn as a Rhinox
       - Artefacts of Power: Spell in a Bottle
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (170)*
     - Artefacts of Power: Celestium Burst-Grenade
Arkanaut Admiral (125)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Ex-Grundstok
BATTLELINE
Arkanaut Company (100)**
     - Light Skyhook and Gun Butt
     - Skypike
     - Aetherflare Pistol
     - Aethermatic Volley Gun and Gun Butt
Arkanaut Company (100)**
     - Light Skyhook and Gun Butt
     - Skypike
     - Aetherflare Pistol
     - Aethermatic Volley Gun and Gun Butt
Grundstok Gunhauler (170)*
Grundstok Thunderers (270)**
     - Gunnery Sergeant
     - 2 x Honour Bearer
     - 2 x Grundstok Mortar
     - 2 x Aethercannon
     - 2 x Aetheric Fumigator
     - 2 x Decksweeper
Endrinriggers (240)**
     - Mizzenmaster
     - Grapnel Launcher and Gun Butt
Endrinriggers (120)**
     - Mizzenmaster
BEHEMOTH
Arkanaut Ironclad (500)**
     - Great Volley Cannon
     - Great Endrinworks:  The Last Word
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1960/2000

 

You know I’m amazed how many 4+ rallies gw is throwing away to armies.

especially to the elite army.

now I’m just wondering why the skaven a horde army (apparently not any more) was left behind when jt comes down that ability 

[GDD]

17 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

Got some games against Sons, Ironjawz and Tzeentch toda, all wins!

Did you try stacking rend on the Thunderers from the Admiral and the Khemist? I feel like the army is missing a true hammer, so I'm contemplating buffed Thunderers vs Zon Skywardens in Frigates. Thunderers with 4+ rally do sound wonderful for grinding on an objective though.

Also do you have an opinion on the Gunhauler and the Arkanauts? I feel like the Arkanauts don't really do anything beyond being bodies(which the army needs for objectives), so it kind of feels sour to pick them. Gunhaulers also feel underwhelming to me.

[Boar]

9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

You know I’m amazed how many 4+ rallies gw is throwing away to armies.

especially to the elite army.

now I’m just wondering why the skaven a horde army (apparently not any more) was left behind when jt comes down that ability 

I guess because in KO it is not problematic, whatever returns won't be either a Stormdrake or mass of bodies (while other mass is already on board) or MW double shooters. DoK or Gitz should be on 5+ max probably.

Anyway when it comes to new KO played vs mostly Rockgut Throggoths on 1500 and uh... 3+/5++ save with sometimes save stacking (and threat of their melee) is quite something, lost that one. Stonehorns, Rockguts and similar will be probably very annoying to deal with for us.

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, GDD said:

Did you try stacking rend on the Thunderers from the Admiral and the Khemist? I feel like the army is missing a true hammer, so I'm contemplating buffed Thunderers vs Zon Skywardens in Frigates. Thunderers with 4+ rally do sound wonderful for grinding on an objective though.

Also do you have an opinion on the Gunhauler and the Arkanauts? I feel like the Arkanauts don't really do anything beyond being bodies(which the army needs for objectives), so it kind of feels sour to pick them. Gunhaulers also feel underwhelming to me.

The khermist always disembarked with the Thunderers for the extra rend. The khermist buff alone was enough most of times, I left the admiral for those targets I wanted dead. The lists I played against had mostly save 4+ or worst, not sure if against something like SCE or slaves it would still work that well.

Yeah the arkanauts are mostly bodies to screen turn 1 and them protect your home objective if need. One unit did their job every game, the second one was a little to much IMO, will be first cut for sure.

I wasn't expecting too much from the gunhauler, but it's utility was really good most games. The shoots are mostly chip damage, but having another sky vessel really helped getting into unguarded objectives. In my Tzeentch game I lost the ironclad to the mortal spam in one go. Having another ship to fly high and get unguarded objectives won me that game. If you are going with the 2 frigate list I wouldn't use it, but if you are going with the ironclad I think one has a lot of value for the mobility alone.

[Beliman]

So, how it is going?

The book seems to be a better written than the last book. A los of QoL and good interactions.

But, after reading again and discussing with friends about what can we do, I've seen a LOT of restrictions that I didn't see after the first few reads.

• We can Fly High and Disembark. But we need a Footnote, and an Admiral, and 2CPs (Admiral can issue one fro free), and we can't charge with our troops after disembarking, and it's once-per-game. 
• Admiral and Brokk have an awesome ability for ships: Run&shoot/charge (appart from re-rolls). But it only affects skyvessels, so if an Ironclad or Frigatte runs, the crew could not shoot. Not sure if it's intended because our shooting units are not that strong as other ranged units.
• The Admiral can only have a Flagship if it's the General. Completely fine but another restriction.
• An embarked Khemist give a -1 to hit auraif it's embarked.

But appart from that, we have A LOT of shenanigans. A few ones that I remember from yesterday:

• Endrinsmater doesn't need to be the General to make Riggers battleline.
• We can Redeploy our troops to Embark in to our ships! Not sure if it's intended but it's crazy good for a +1save/-1 to be hit.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Beliman

[Grungnisson]

51 minutes ago, Beliman said:

So, how it is going?

The book seems to be a better written than the last book. A los of QoL and good interactions.

But, after reading again and discussing with friends about what can we do, I've seen a LOT of restrictions that I didn't see after the first few reads.

• We can Fly High and Disembark. But we need a Footnote, and an Admiral, and 2CPs (Admiral can issue one fro free), and we can't charge with our troops after disembarking, and it's once-per-game. 
• Admiral and Brokk have an awesome ability for ships: Run&shoot/charge (appart from re-rolls). But it only affects skyvessels, so if an Ironclad or Frigatte runs, the crew could not shoot. Not sure if it's intended because our shooting units are not that strong as other ranged units.

But appart from that, we have A LOT of shenanigans. A few ones that I remember from yesterday:

• Endrinsmater doesn't need to be the General to make Riggers battleline.
• We can Disengage to Embark in to our ships! Not sure if it's intended but it's crazy good for a +1save/-1 to be hit.
• An embarked Khemist give a -1to hit aura to our ships!

I think, in general, we'll have to move away from the reliance on Fly High as a core mechanic. It'll have to become more of a precision tool, probably more about jumping on objectives than dropping into a fight. I can't be bothered at the moment to keep reading from the photos of the book pages, but will have another good pass once the book arrives this weekend.

[Flippy]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

• We can Fly High and Disembark. But we need a Footnote, and an Admiral, and 2CPs (Admiral can issue one fro free), and we can't charge with our troops after disembarking, and it's once-per-game. 

Why is that?

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

• An embarked Khemist give a -1to hit aura to our ships!

The ability specifically states that it only works while the unit (using the ability) is not embarked.

[Beliman]

42 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Why is that?

The Combat Landing Command says: "A unit that disembarks in this way cannot move cannot move in the same turn".
And a charge move is still a move. It's a fake "Combat" landing.

45 minutes ago, Flippy said:

The ability specifically states that it only works while the unit (using the ability) is not embarked.

Oop, I swap then to the "restriction" list. 

[Flippy]

24 minutes ago, Beliman said:

The Combat Landing Command says: "A unit that disembarks in this way cannot move cannot move in the same turn".
And a charge move is still a move. It's a fake "Combat" landing.

That would also mean they cannot pile-in. But yes, I get it - it is more of a Objective secured landing.

[Arzalyn]

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

Admiral and Brokk have an awesome ability for ships: Run&shoot/charge (appart from re-rolls). But it only affects skyvessels, so if an Ironclad or Frigatte runs, the crew could not shoot. Not sure if it's intended because our shooting units are not that strong as other ranged units.

I think this is a good question to ask for the FAQ, not sure if this was intentional or no.

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

The Admiral can only have a Flagship if it's the General. Completely fine but another restriction.

Just to point that while it is a restriction, we have nothing else that requires a specific model to be our general. Riggers just require the Edrinmaster in the list and even some traits that would be restricted to a specific hero in other books (Stormcaller for example), aren't restricted. I imagine this was made so the Admiral could be our general without loosing anything else. Thematically I like that the Admiral is our best general option. It always felt strange last book to have a admiral in a list but having the khermist or the edrinmaster as the general.

4 hours ago, Grungnisson said:

I think, in general, we'll have to move away from the reliance on Fly High as a core mechanic. It'll have to become more of a precision tool, probably more about jumping on objectives than dropping into a fight.

This is the way IMO. If you want to alpha shoot, you can use the footnote in the first turn, but if you are just taking them to a closer objective just normal moving the ship + disembarking with the command is sufficient. Its important to remember that the disembark give us a little extra movement (as they just have to be wholly within 3" of the boat and from enemies). Also this make the +2" move article much more relevant than it appears at first sight.

[CaptainGrimm]

Haven't yet had a chance to try out the new rules, mostly waiting on having the tome in my hand before giving a proper bash. Currently tinkering with a Frigate & Skywarden 1K list for the Warhammer Fest tournaments in a few months. 

As a side note, the AoS App has already been updated with the updated tome so that helps a lot with building out lists.

[Beliman]

How are you going to use the Tuskhlement/Skyvessel interaction?

I'm not sure if it's intended as using the same charge roll of the frigatte, but after the BoC Bull-Train, not sure if a once-per-game footnote needs to be removed.

[Arzalyn]

13 minutes ago, Beliman said:

How are you going to use the Tuskhlement/Skyvessel interaction?

I'm not sure if it's intended as using the same charge roll of the frigatte, but after the BoC Bull-Train, not sure if a once-per-game footnote needs to be removed.

Honestly I'm ignoring it. I don't get to play much more than a couple of games per month and the helmet should be gone in 3 months any way. Removing a footnote just because of it seens too much, they will probably clarify this in our FAQ within a month.

[Boar]

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

How are you going to use the Tuskhlement/Skyvessel interaction?

I'm not sure if it's intended as using the same charge roll of the frigatte, but after the BoC Bull-Train, not sure if a once-per-game footnote needs to be removed.

Guy with Tuskhelm makes charge, true. However his charge roll is not made so it's effectively 0. So Tuskhelm ability triggers, but does nothing.

[ChaosDorf]

Heading for 1500 points game with this crew:

 

Sub-Faction: Barak Zon
General: Navigator
Artefact: Voidstone Orb
Command Trait: Stormcaller

Artycle: Honor Is Everything
Amendment: Always take what you are owed
Footnote: Theres no reward without risk

100 1x Arkanaut Company 
100 1x Arkanaut Company
270 2x Thunderer
300 1x Frigatte
120 1x Driggers
390 3x Skywardens
125 1x Admiral
85 1x Navigator (General)

1490/1500

 

How does this look like? Any thoughts / fixes / anything? 

 

Cheers!

[Beliman]

12 hours ago, ChaosDorf said:

Heading for 1500 points game with this crew:

 

Sub-Faction: Barak Zon
General: Navigator
Artefact: Voidstone Orb
Command Trait: Stormcaller

Artycle: Honor Is Everything
Amendment: Always take what you are owed
Footnote: Theres no reward without risk

100 1x Arkanaut Company 
100 1x Arkanaut Company
270 2x Thunderer
300 1x Frigatte
120 1x Driggers
390 3x Skywardens
125 1x Admiral
85 1x Navigator (General)

1490/1500

 

How does this look like? Any thoughts / fixes / anything? 

 

Cheers!

Imo, I would probably promote the Admiral to your general. That unlocks the flagship and it's a free CP for the Frigatte each turn. You can still give the Stormcaller Trait to your Admiral and gain rerolls for your Navigator. You don't lose anything in doing that.

Appart from that, the list looks good. That Skywardens+Friggate is really scary to deal with, and remember that you don't need to disembark all units to double-hit the enemy: Disembark the Admiral, hit with his hammer because he has Strike-first, and then hit with your embarked Skywardens because it's still your turn. Just try to delete everything because your riggers are not going to be in Cover (they charged) and your admiral will be on the ground. If needed, you can redeploy your admiral in your enemies turn to embark again for that +1save and -1 to be hit.

14 hours ago, Boar said:

Guy with Tuskhelm makes charge, true. However his charge roll is not made so it's effectively 0. So Tuskhelm ability triggers, but does nothing.

Completely agree. That's the best way to deal with the Tuskhelmet.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Beliman

[Tittliewinks22]

11 hours ago, Beliman said:

Just try to delete everything because your riggers are not going to be in Cover (they charged) and your admiral will be on the ground. If needed, you can redeploy your admiral in your enemies turn to embark again for that +1save and -1 to be hit.

Great advice! One thing people need to keep in mind is the -1 to hit from being embarked is seperate from the +1 save for being in cover, so you retain the -1 to hit when you charge.

[Flippy]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:01 PM, ChaosDorf said:

How does this look like? Any thoughts / fixes / anything?

To me it looks like a lot of foot Dwarfs with no ship to carry them. Maybe this is the way - but I would not field 2 x 10 Arkanauts and 10 Thunderers without a transport.

[Beliman]

I'm trying to write a list with as much disrupt I can, but not sure how to do it:

I suppose Mhornar will be the main subfaction to CP deny.  Voidstone seems awesome but not sure if I need to go for low drops or for another Artefact because removing wards is so juicy. Drekki can remove Artefacts and gives free  charge rerolls to his Frigatte. Navigator seems to be a must too, a hero phase move and MW that can reduce movement.

Appart from that, I'm not sure what I need. A mix of Ironclad with Thunderers and a Frigatte with Drekki and some skyriggers? Maybe just going full melee? Or some shooting frigates? 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Beliman

[Arzalyn]

15 hours ago, Flippy said:

To me it looks like a lot of foot Dwarfs with no ship to carry them. Maybe this is the way - but I would not field 2 x 10 Arkanauts and 10 Thunderers without a transport.

I agree, the thunderers and arkanauts will be left behind. It is ok to do so with the arkanauts, their main function is screening and holding a home objective. The thunderers not so much, as even if you go with riffles + cannon + deck for the 18" range they will use at least a round running to get to the middle of the board.

@ChaosDorf I would suggest you change one unit of arkanauts or the riggers (I imagining you are putting the 9 wardens + admiral on the frigate here) for a khermist and change the orb for spell in a bottle with the soulscream bridge. This away you have a easy form of delivering the thunderers/arkanauts where you need them.

4 hours ago, Beliman said:

Appart from that, I'm not sure what I need. A mix of Ironclad with Thunderers and a Frigatte with Drekki and some skyriggers? Maybe just going full melee? Or some shooting frigates?

I imagine that focusing more on shooting would be more disruptive than focusing on melee, but Mhornar effect range favors more melee (Drekki do so as well). A more balanced approach could work, Drekki + wardens/riggers in a frigate as a melee threat and a ironclad with thunderers + khermist (all special weapons to keep the mhornar effect up) as a ranged threat.

[Tittliewinks22]

With the new changes to thunderer profiles, I'm funding it hard to justify running aether rifles ever.

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

With the new changes to thunderer profiles, I'm funding it hard to justify running aether rifles ever.

Imo, rifles selling point is basically that 18" range and being the easiest profile to roll dice.

It's a bit weird, rolling 3 or 4 profiles for just one unit in the same phase is teddious and boring  for both players. 

[Grungnisson]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:08 AM, Beliman said:

 

I suppose Mhornar will be the main subfaction to CP deny. 

Situational and on a 5+... You sacrifice a lot for a high chance of it not happening the whole game.