AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[jake3991]

I'm a longtime competitive slayers player, liking where some peoples heads are at with list building in this thread. Figured I'd share. I used to run the canonical 60 HGB with lords of the lodge, now that's gone I think that there are a couple directions to go. Both my concepts take advantage of two things. HGB are still awesome, but no longer spamable and Aurics with a deepstrike option are excellent.

First concept would be to include Gotrek. He got a major points reduction to the point where he might make sense to include. Previously he was so costly that he would crowd out the required tools to build a decent Hermdar list but now he starts to make sense. Something like:

Runesmiter on Magmadroth

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

Gotrek

3x10 HGB

1x10 aurics

The second option is to experiment with some KO add ins. Historically slayers have been a static army and could use some help on the mobility front. KO obviously have great mobility with the ships. There are now several secondaries that reward mobile armies and a little extra shooting never hurts.

Runesmiter on Magmadroth (points to take any of the droths though)

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

Any of the foot heros

3x10 HGB

1x10 aurics

2x Gunhaulers

 

What do you all think? Curious what others are doing as far as list building.

 

 

 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

13 hours ago, jake3991 said:

I'm a longtime competitive slayers player, liking where some peoples heads are at with list building in this thread. Figured I'd share. I used to run the canonical 60 HGB with lords of the lodge, now that's gone I think that there are a couple directions to go. Both my concepts take advantage of two things. HGB are still awesome, but no longer spamable and Aurics with a deepstrike option are excellent.

First concept would be to include Gotrek. He got a major points reduction to the point where he might make sense to include. Previously he was so costly that he would crowd out the required tools to build a decent Hermdar list but now he starts to make sense. Something like:

Runesmiter on Magmadroth

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

Gotrek

3x10 HGB

1x10 aurics

The second option is to experiment with some KO add ins. Historically slayers have been a static army and could use some help on the mobility front. KO obviously have great mobility with the ships. There are now several secondaries that reward mobile armies and a little extra shooting never hurts.

Runesmiter on Magmadroth (points to take any of the droths though)

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

Any of the foot heros

3x10 HGB

1x10 aurics

2x Gunhaulers

 

What do you all think? Curious what others are doing as far as list building.

 

 

 

 

Looks good with the HGB (I Have 60+ so I don't want to give up on them yet), but your list needs Runefather as general to take them as battleline.  But what I've found is 3 x 10 disintegrate now.  Hermdar seems slow so I've actually been experimenting with Vostarg.  

 

Runefather on Magmadroth

Runesmiter on Magmadroth

Battlesmith

Runemaster

4 x 10 HGB

1 x 5 Auric

Molten Infernoth

 

The invocations can't be moved through, and the 6+ ward from the wall MAY be more worth it, but the blocking of movement from the infernoth that moves around and can now potentailly do even more MW makes it seem more exciting in a meta where +1 saves are handed out like candy.  I roll 2 poleaxe and 2 broadaxe squads and can run and charge some scenarios turn 1 and advance the smiter to keep +1 save around on my forward group that can pin them down with the runefather turn 1 if needed, with the smith and smiter (prayer of ash vs. Infernoth) providing support to the objective holder(s) group(s) with aurics to buy a little time for the foot heroes.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Black_Fortress_Immortal

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

22 hours ago, jake3991 said:

I'm a longtime competitive slayers player, liking where some peoples heads are at with list building in this thread. Figured I'd share. I used to run the canonical 60 HGB with lords of the lodge, now that's gone I think that there are a couple directions to go. Both my concepts take advantage of two things. HGB are still awesome, but no longer spamable and Aurics with a deepstrike option are excellent.

 

 

Also, maybe we will play against each other (again) this year.  Didn't get a chance to head to NJ much.

[jake3991]

6 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Also, maybe we will play against each other (again) this year.  Didn't get a chance to head to NJ much.

Fancy seeing you here haha.

Good catch on the general!

 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

On 7/8/2021 at 10:24 PM, jake3991 said:

Fancy seeing you here haha.

Good catch on the general!

 

I'm actually giving Greyfyrd a whirl this time around.  Blocks of heroes with Aurics behind, and a block in deepstrike with a runesmiter.  Lots of extra artifacts, so it's easy to have 10 heroes (runemaster, runesmiter, battlesmith x 2, grimwrath x 6), backed up by aurics.  That command ability that allows them all to fight in succession, the monster will only be able to shut off one of them, but just have a hero behind the first rank of grimwraths like a smith, so he or another can activate and watch half a dozen pop off at once, fighting twice with their decent rend.  Going super high drops so that most can be in their own vanguard for a free reroll charge/auto run 6".

[Clan's Cynic]

Goonhammer article on Fyreslayers in 3.0.

[Oldhat]

9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Goonhammer article on Fyreslayers in 3.0.

Looks like I wasn't too far off from how the faction is shaping up for 3.0 with my recent lists.

What are y'all thinking on that broadaxe vs poleaxe comment? I was doing a half and half split so I still had access to mortal wounds. Are broadaxes actually looking that much better?

[plavski]

Broadaxes have always been the more consistent choice. With the freer access to +'s to hit now, and rend becoming more important than ever, I can see how their value has increased over 6 fishing. I'd still take a mix in my 2k lists, but in smaller point games, the feel bads of rolling 20 dice for two 6's and a bunch of ignored 1 damage no rend attacks is stronger than the rendy consistent damage of the broadaxe. I think it'll be the same as it ever was though: put the weapon in front of the enemy it'll do the most good against, and some troops just need mortals to crack the shells.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

3 hours ago, plavski said:

Broadaxes have always been the more consistent choice. With the freer access to +'s to hit now, and rend becoming more important than ever, I can see how their value has increased over 6 fishing. I'd still take a mix in my 2k lists, but in smaller point games, the feel bads of rolling 20 dice for two 6's and a bunch of ignored 1 damage no rend attacks is stronger than the rendy consistent damage of the broadaxe. I think it'll be the same as it ever was though: put the weapon in front of the enemy it'll do the most good against, and some troops just need mortals to crack the shells.

Honestly, -1 rend against archaon/kragnos stacking multiple sources of +1 save (oracular visions, mystic shield, all-out defense), the broadaxes don't fare so well imo.  Try it sometime and let me know how it goes.

[plavski]

17 minutes ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Honestly, -1 rend against archaon/kragnos stacking multiple sources of +1 save (oracular visions, mystic shield, all-out defense), the broadaxes don't fare so well imo.  Try it sometime and let me know how it goes.

As I say, you put the mortal wounds in front of the enemy that needs it. But the rend and damage is more consistent against a variety of enemies. Relying on 6 fishing is not a reliable way to go when you have other ways of increasing hit, wound and rend.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

24 minutes ago, plavski said:

As I say, you put the mortal wounds in front of the enemy that needs it. But the rend and damage is more consistent against a variety of enemies. Relying on 6 fishing is not a reliable way to go when you have other ways of increasing hit, wound and rend.

Right.  It's why I've gravitated towards Vostarg.  I've made some lists where I have 15 block, and direct my poleaxes more reliably into the units that need to get smacked by them.  Fighting first is cool and all, but letting Kragnos or Archaon go to town and pick their battles is not going to be a good time.  I've also been more inclined to take shield Vulkites in Vostarg for the +2 to charge and roll in out of deepstrike, in case they try to redeploy away after your HGB advance up for a charge, you can drop in.

[plavski]

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of thinking over lodges too, a lot more than in second edition, which is great! I've ordered some more magmadroths too as Lofnir is a properly spicy option. I've always kinda liked Vostarg more than Hermdar for the increased movement as I'm just a more aggressive player by nature. But I'm salivating at the idea of all those magmadroths with auric backup.

I'm still not sure if it's viable to go custom lodge for the flexibility around artefacts and traits, but I think even with the reduction in warscroll battalion synergy, you are losing more than you gain.

Edited July 17, 2021 by plavski

[Azamar]

I’ve played my first couple of games of third edition now and have stuck with Fyreslayers for both as I figured they’re easy enough to use, allowing me to focus on relearning the core rules. I went with much the same army for both games:

lodge Hermdar

grand strategy- hold the line

Warlord battalion:

Runefather on Magmadroth (general). 
-warrior Indominate -tyrant slayer - coal heart ancient 

Auric Runemaster- prayer of ash, ash cloud rune.

Battlesmith

10x Hearthguard berserkers (poleaxes)

Vanguard battalion

Auric Runesmiter- searing heat

20 x vulkite berserkers (warpicks/shields)

10 x vulkite berserkers (paired axes)

5 x hearthguard berserkers (broad axes)

1500 points bang on. 
for the second game I switched the hearthguard’s weapons around, and took heal as the extra prayer for the runemaster
 

My first game was against ironjawz with a variant on the tankcrusha build (with an artefact that reduced rend by 1 instead of the 5+ ward) and the second against petrifex  bonereapers with two blocks of 20 mortek guard back up by a catapult, deathriders and various heroes

For those of you worried that Fyreslayers are going to be bad on AOS3, I can certainly say that hasn’t been my experience. Neither game has lasted more than 3 turns and both have been pretty thumping victories. 
 

Against the Ironjawz it was basically over turn 1 following the death of the mawkrusha. My opponent overstretched and went barrelling in with the mawkrusha (along with some piggies)- destroying the small unit of hearthguard but drawing in the larger unit early leading to the kill. The rest of the fight became largely irrelevant once it was down- an attempt was made to take down the magmadroth in revenge and it was close (left it on 1-2 wounds at the end of round 2) but by then his army had been whittled down to 1 ardboy, 2 goregruntas and a warchanter, and it was clear any comeback was nigh impossible.

Whilst I’m liking AOS3 so far, this game does highlight my main concern for the future, which is games revolving around one or two big monsters are going to be really swingy. With a third of the armies points wrapped up in one model the game was very one sided where it went down, but on the flip side armies that can’t deal with it (you need -2 rend to take it off a 2+ save, or -3 if it uses finest hour or mystic shield- the only damage I really did was from mortal wounds) are going to get flattened.

The game against bonereapers was a little more even for the first couple of turns, but went downhill rapidly for the OBR once their army became more spread out- only getting shield wall once per turn hurts them. Heroes of this game were the 20 vulkites- dropping into the opponents territory. 40 wounds with a 4+ save in combat (that can now be maintained against rend with all out defence) that is also immune to battleshock is hard for anyone to shift and can’t be ignored, and forcing OBR to spread out.

My overall impressions for fyreslayers are they’re pretty strong. I live in hope for some more unit options in time, but of the ones we do have there’s a lot of good options. 
 

the runefather of magmadroth is great, getting a huge boost from the new monster and hero abilities whilst being a bit cheaper than equivalents in other armies. The battle smith still feels like an autoinclude and hearthguard are still contenders for best unit in the game. 
 

I still love my 20 deep-striking vulkites, and anyone who thinks vulkite berserkers aren’t worth taking should try it out- they definitely earned more victories than my hearthguard when I used them in 2nd edition, and apart from their damage output dropping somewhat due to coherency changes (which was never really the point anyway) I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t carry on being the secret stars of the show. One other disadvantage though is their initial target might redeploy, leaving them unable to charge the turn they drop in (the ironjawz player used this to great effect against them in the first game) making it important to put them in such a position that they can’t be ignored from the outset. 
 

The runemaster is still, predictably, duff. He’s cheap enough at least but, unless you need him to power the forge, allying in a runelord is probably better, especially if you’re only using generic prayers with him. I’m also not convinced by small units of vulkites so far- they’re a bit expensive to just act as a screen now and due pretty quickly that I think I’d want 20 in a unit minimum in most cases. 
 

if you made it through that wall of text then as a bonus here’s a couple of photos of the first game against ironjawz- we put the mawkrusha back on the table for the photo (it was in amongst the hearthguard but the goregruntas had piled in since).

 

 

 

 

[Forehead]

Love this write-up, thanks.

I too believe that Fyreslayers have some play in AOS3. Tomorrow night is the first outing for my latest list:

Vostarg, Grand Strategy - Pillars of Belief, 2000pts

- RFather on MD w/ Vosaxe (General)
- RSon on MD w/ javelins
- RSon on MD w/ javelins
- RSmiter on MD w/ Salamander cloak, Ash-Horn Ancient and Heal prayer.
- RSmiter w/ Searing Heat prayer
- Battlesmith

- 5 x HGB with poleaxes
- 5 x HGB with poleaxes
- 5 x HGB with poleaxes
- 10 x Auric HG

- 3 x Aetherwings (allies)
- 3 x Aetherwings (allies)

Warlord and Hunter in the Heartlands (3 x HGBs) battalions.

With Vostarg trait and rune of relentless zeal the MDs are moving 12" + 2, auto-run 6" on turn one, run and charge bubble around the RFather and +1 to charge (or +3 on a roll of a 6 with the rune) so I should be making turn one charges most of the time, if they go first and screen then I've got 4 MDs breath and some javelins to clear them off. The RSmiter on MD is dishing out a save bonus from his MD trait and his artefact with the 5+ FNP should keep him around long enough to be healing himself or the other MDs. The two runesons get reroll hits from vying for glory so all the MDs have to stay together.

The plan is to play Fyreslayers like Ironjawz and just run them into things as soon as possible - maximum fun, no idea if it will play well.

[Azamar]

4 magmadroths is mad, and could only be improved by going with Lofnir and taking a 5th!

[Forehead]

Only thing preventing lofnir is a lack of budget to buy a 5th SC box!

[Forehead]

So having played Soulblight last night I have some interesting findings on the quad Magmadroths - They were devastating in dealing with units of infantry, however even with the runesons rerolling hits and using the CP to get +1 they are still really swingy against decent heroes. I could barely scratch the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon but killed pretty much everything else. The Auric HG blasted off Neferata with the tunnelling into a double turn of shooting. 5 HGBs are great too.

[Malakithe]

On 7/28/2021 at 3:40 AM, Forehead said:

So having played Soulblight last night I have some interesting findings on the quad Magmadroths - They were devastating in dealing with units of infantry, however even with the runesons rerolling hits and using the CP to get +1 they are still really swingy against decent heroes. I could barely scratch the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon but killed pretty much everything else. The Auric HG blasted off Neferata with the tunnelling into a double turn of shooting. 5 HGBs are great too.

To be fair though the VLoZD is very tanky and killy at the same time. And Runesons are just straight garbage no matter which version or how many you take.

[Clan's Cynic]

Even with the reroll, Runeson Javelins being 4+ on one die is pretty bad. I could see an argument for it if you know your opponent is stacking Monsters, but even then, you might as well just buy ten Aurics for 10pts more if it's a dedicated Monster-hunter you're after. The Axe still wins out for me. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Forehead]

I think the rerolling all hits from having two runesons together make them more punchy and it isnt limited to melee so the thrown javelins also benefit. Ultimately i think you'd be better off replacing each magmadroth with HGBs or Auric HG but that is boring to me. Run and charge pack of magmadroths is just a lot more fun.

[plavski]

Nice write up on a recent 4th place Fyreslayers list: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-3-0-the-2021-lone-star-open-age-of-sigmar-championships/

Gotrek, Runefather, Smiter, Smith, Doomseeker, 3 x 10 HGB, 3 x 5 AH

[Bonesplitterz]

36 minutes ago, plavski said:

Nice write up on a recent 4th place Fyreslayers list: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-3-0-the-2021-lone-star-open-age-of-sigmar-championships/

Gotrek, Runefather, Smiter, Smith, Doomseeker, 3 x 10 HGB, 3 x 5 AH

Except the list is not legal. His list need 4 leaders cause of the battalions and have only 3 since Gotrek and the Doomseeker are not leader.

[Oldhat]

On 8/1/2021 at 5:01 AM, Bonesplitterz said:

Except the list is not legal. His list need 4 leaders cause of the battalions and have only 3 since Gotrek and the Doomseeker are not leader.

Nvm. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Oldhat

[Forehead]

Ok, so 5th Magmadroth has been purchased and is on its way ready for some Lofnir nonsense. Please can someone confirm if I can duplicate MD traits across each MD? I can't find anything that confirms if this is allowed/disallowed.

Having 4/5 MDs ignore rend 1 with the other MD behind dishing out reroll saves of 1 seems like a potential build choice but I don't want to spend more time thinking about it if it's not legal.

[Oldhat]

6 hours ago, Forehead said:

Ok, so 5th Magmadroth has been purchased and is on its way ready for some Lofnir nonsense. Please can someone confirm if I can duplicate MD traits across each MD? I can't find anything that confirms if this is allowed/disallowed.

Having 4/5 MDs ignore rend 1 with the other MD behind dishing out reroll saves of 1 seems like a potential build choice but I don't want to spend more time thinking about it if it's not legal.

I don't see any language limiting you from taking the same trait for each 'Droth. Not in the FAQ or in the original language. I hear other armies are taking the same one multiple times, so I think it's currently allowed until otherwise FAQd.