AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[jhamslam]

3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

Does this also apply to Paladins? I've been eyeing some since they dropped in points and I love the Protector models... are these good or are they finicky and need to be dropped in? are we better off taking Palladors for the 180pts?

Retributors might be ok, but others get to do such more in melee. From fight first, to last, to mortal wound protection then fight again after combat. SCE combat close range has been left woefully behind. Palladors are nice but arent heavy hitters so not that good unfortunately. Just longstrikes all the way is the the way forward i think

[JaffaBones]

9 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Named keeper used the realm spell to teleport up and kill an Incantor.  His general (also a keeper), charged and killed 5 Liberators.  Third keeper charged and killed 9 Sequitors, fighting first and twice.  With his charge roll, he could have gotten to the Evocators - but this was either a mistake on his part, or he didn't want to be in combat with two units in case his fight first roll was a 1.

Bottom of 1...  Ballistas dropped in and killed his general.  A ballista charged a unit of daemonettes to tie them up in his deployment, engaging as few as possible.  They did 6 wounds to the ballista, successfully tying them up and preventing them from getting to my objective on their next turn.    The full unit of Sequitors charged the named keeper.  He fought first and killed 6.  They did 14 damage back from the remaining 4 with greatmaces, but he made enough FNP rolls to live with 4 wounds.  Evocators charged the keeper in the middle - fight first failed, and the Evos wiped it pretty easily.

So he killed an Incantor, 9 Sequitors, and 5 Liberators with the alpha strike.  On my turn, he killed 6 more Sequitors, and I killed 2 keepers and got the named one down to 4 wounds.

He won the roll to go first round 2.  He had 67 depravity points.  Summoned two keepers.  Game over.

You army is old-school strong. Fight first and fight double counters it. You did well though, killing two keepers work that disadvantage and wounding the third so fatally, but you have to be a little more crafty nowadays. It's like wrestling up a weight-class ... it's possible, but mistakes will cost you more than him an but you have to be better since you also lose on attrition. You didn't do any, your army did what it was supposed to do.

Either screening, delaying the "real" charge of the keepers and shooting it. Which you did well, but maybe can improve if you don't want to Chang anything on your list. Charging the ballista was a nice move also. Preferably Longstrikes are the bane of all monsters in the game, but ballista / Judicator should do it to some degree when screened proper. The thing is, you don't have the option not to engage with your list. You don't have the movement to ignore stuff and and play objective based and don't have many options to abmush stuff. Besides, you movement is little enough that when you don't take the straight forward route, you maybe not getting into combat. You can deepstrike the ballista, but I never liked the standard deviation on ballistas, that's why I shelved them. If I can point out something I look into mostly: You don't have chaff units and will sometimes end up using seqs to hold points I guess. Some points in some maps can get gold by chaff and that's enough. I barley see that Upton for you.

 

If you don't like shooting, try a Diamond Stardrake list. I had success with them against extremely killy lists, since you can very reliably make the Stardrake unkillable (yes, really) which will be your anvil. You still need shooting to some degree until we can somehow have a day in the activation war with either units or abilities to shut it down to a normal"f-this-i-go-first-in-my-turn" But those Stardrake lists are all now 60-120p over and I have to rewrite them.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by JaffaBones
I hate my phone

[JaffaBones]

By the way, which realmspell gives you teleport again? I can only think of hysh banishment, but that's something else

[XReN]

11 minutes ago, JaffaBones said:

By the way, which realmspell gives you teleport again? I can only think of hysh banishment, but that's something else

Ghyran, Mirrorpool or something

Edited June 25, 2019 by XReN

[PrimeElectrid]

2 hours ago, Hagbean said:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (220)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Scrolls of Power (Artefact): Scroll of Condemnation
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Indefatigable
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Stormcaller

Battleline
5 x Sequitors (130)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (130)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (130)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Units
5 x Evocators (220)
5 x Evocators (220)
6 x Castigators (160)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117

Thoughts/suggestions?

Every time I think about Castigators I run the numbers and they always come up short  Even taking their melee attacks into account, Xbow Judicators with a Shockbow Prime come out ahead. 

[SchleuderMann2]

I have a question about heraldor+ fulmimators. if the fulmimators run/retreat, can they still use their missile weapon? Because otherwise you would have to play without it the whole game since they want to retreat and charge every round

[tgmikey]

Can you use Cycle of the storm on a Ballista?

[PJetski]

3 hours ago, SchleuderMann2 said:

I have a question about heraldor+ fulmimators. if the fulmimators run/retreat, can they still use their missile weapon? Because otherwise you would have to play without it the whole game since they want to retreat and charge every round

No, you can't retreat and shoot. Heraldor allows you to retreat and run, but not retreat and shoot.

This is one of the main reasons I prefer Concussors and Desolators over Fulminators/Dracolines now, since they don't mind getting stuck in combat with their great saves and damage that doesn't rely on charging.

Just now, tgmikey said:

Can you use Cycle of the storm on a Ballista?

You can use it on anything with the STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword.

[CommissarRotke]

14 hours ago, grimm said:

I'm quite surprised i hadn't found this board before. I would like to ask for a bit of help, I have an Engagements event in a little while, and I want to bring the cheesiest list possible, knowing that at 1000 SC can be pretty lackluster. So i have a phalanx list, but really want to play stardrake. Is there any configuration at 1000 that makes sense? Thanks in advance

Stardrake is 560 points so... hard no I'd think. Even in Meeting Engagement you have to sacrifice too many bodies to get a Knight Incantor to be able to unbind. Doesn't make sense below a 1500pt list

[CommissarRotke]

6 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Every time I think about Castigators I run the numbers and they always come up short  Even taking their melee attacks into account, Xbow Judicators with a Shockbow Prime come out ahead. 

Isn't the range on the crossbow judis too short to be worth it? you could get two shots off with castigators with an extra +1 to wound and rend-2 to boot. Or, are you relying on the Rapid Fire trait and keeping them stationary?

[HammerOfSigmar]

Well, for castigator, I recommend split them into small units get the benefits of prime's +1 to hit.

[crkhobbit]

Castigators do an average of about 1.1-1.2 damage per turn against sv4+.

What are you looking to accomplish by doing 1 point of damage every turn?

[CommissarRotke]

2 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

Castigators do an average of about 1.1-1.2 damage per turn against sv4+.

What are you looking to accomplish by doing 1 point of damage every turn?

What are the stats on the crossbow judis then? their range feels like they'd get one volley off then be in combat, and I don't think I've ever seen a list with them over the bows.

[crkhobbit]

Bows are similar to Castigators for points per damage, but at least they're battle line and they're 24" range.

XBows are about 50% better in ppd.  And you can still take a shockbolt bow which will do about the same damage output per turn as a 3-man unit of Castigators on average, but with a greater damage potential.

I'm not fan of any of those options to be honest.  They have their place.  But you'd have to take so many to have a critical mass large enough to actually kill something.  And at least Judicators are battleline.

[tgmikey]

I'm thinking of running this probably as hammers of sigmar

Mikey - Allegiance: Order - Mortal Realm: Ulgu

LEADERS

Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)

- General

Lord-Relictor (100)

Lord-Castellant (120)

Spellweaver (100)

- Heartwood Staff

UNITS

20 x Sequitors (440)

- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

5 x Liberators (100)

- Warhammers

5 x Liberators (100)

- Warhammers

3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300) 5 x Retributors (200)
WAR MACHINES
Celestar Ballista (110)

Celestar Ballista (110)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN

Everblaze Comet (100)

TOTAL: 2000/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0

WOUNDS: 127

LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 2/4 ARTEFACTS: 0/1 ALLIES: 100/400

[PJetski]

Reposting my shooting spreadsheet updated for GHB2019 - feel free to check my math.

[PrimeElectrid]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

Isn't the range on the crossbow judis too short to be worth it? you could get two shots off with castigators with an extra +1 to wound and rend-2 to boot. Or, are you relying on the Rapid Fire trait and keeping them stationary?

The idea is to drop them out of the sky to clear an objective.

[HammerOfSigmar]

From PJetski's table, it seems judicator with crossbow just get outperformed by raptor with hurricane, raptor have a 18" range, which is another advantage.

[firtahl]

23 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Reposting my shooting spreadsheet updated for GHB2019 - feel free to check my math.

Just a minor issue with the Judicator prime w/longbow. You have:

3.5 x .8333 = 2.9166 (Looks good)

2.9166 x .5 = 1.4583 (The .5 would mean a 4+, but this is a 3+. Probably a copy paste error since the x-bows wound on a 4+)

Corrected for 3+ its 1.9444

You might consider adding a line for the vs chaos on the judicators and the vs nighthaunt and daemons for the castigators. maybe those edge cases aren't something you're too worried about, which would be reasonable.

[PJetski]

7 minutes ago, firtahl said:

Just a minor issue with the Judicator prime w/longbow. You have:

3.5 x .8333 = 2.9166 (Looks good)

2.9166 x .5 = 1.4583 (The .5 would mean a 4+, but this is a 3+. Probably a copy paste error since the x-bows wound on a 4+)

Corrected for 3+ its 1.9444

You might consider adding a line for the vs chaos on the judicators and the vs nighthaunt and daemons for the castigators. maybe those edge cases aren't something you're too worried about, which would be reasonable.

You're right, thanks for catching that. 

I'm not sure the edge cases are worth adding, since they are match-up specific. Judicators can get reroll hit1 from other sources, and Castigators getting an average of 0.5 extra hits in every volley (D3 on 1/6 chance with 3 shots) against two keywords is an incredibly small bonus.

[PJetski]

39 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

From PJetski's table, it seems judicator with crossbow just get outperformed by raptor with hurricane, raptor have a 18" range, which is another advantage.

Yes, Hurricanes are without a doubt our most cost effective shooting unit. 

Crossbow Judicators can fill battleline slots, though. It's worth mentioning that the anti-horde weapon has not been modelled, but if you can constantly shoot at a unit of >6 models then it makes Judicators significantly better. I should model that.

[grimm]

Yeah, i figured as much. It's truly amazing to go through the backlog of discussion. I'm still running it tho, just because it's very hard to kill and i'm banking on my local meta to be infantry spam that will be unable to deal with the dragon. Also the format is pretty new so seems fun to try and play the big dude.

Regardless, i'm wondering what should i buy next, as it seems i don't have any of the shooty units, and the consensus seems to be that's what's good.

I have a bunch of sacrosanct chamber, most of the leaders, but no mounted units nor raptors. Aetherwings and hurricane raptors?

Thanks!

[CommissarRotke]

12 minutes ago, grimm said:

Regardless, i'm wondering what should i buy next, as it seems i don't have any of the shooty units, and the consensus seems to be that's what's good.

After filling out Soul Wars and getting a Castellant to boot, my first boxed kit will be Raptor Longstrikes. After that, I am not sure whether to buy Liberators or Judicators... I guess it depends on this next question:

44 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Yes, Hurricanes are without a doubt our most cost effective shooting unit. 

Crossbow Judicators can fill battleline slots, though.

Is it possible/worth it to magnetize Judi weapons to try both weapon configurations? Or should I do 5 bows 5 xbows? I imagine putting the shockbolt on two Primes is the better option for special weapon.

 

And again, extremely disappointed at how bad Castis are with how cool the models look

[PJetski]

I haven't tried magnetizing Judicators yet, since I own 10 of each weapon.

7 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

And again, extremely disappointed at how bad Castis are with how cool the models look

You and me both. Castigators are one of the best models GW has ever produced but their rules are a bag of wet farts.

[CommissarRotke]

If I get a box of 10, is it worth making one unit with each weapon?  I like the idea of dropping two crossbow units down to clear 2 objectives in a turn... but having some more longer ranged shots to help longstrikes seems viable too; bows on table and crossbows up to drop?