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firtahl

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  1. I gave this a shot with like 150 bodies and heroes to provide Buffs and BS immunity. With everyone gearing to kill megas, they just blow through the wounds and i was finding myself running out of bodies by t3. I also struggled to get tactics in the late game with that kind of build. I remember playing the horde build against fec and lost 120 wounds of stuff at the bottom of 1. The dmg out there is outrageous and I don't think more garbage saves on the board mitigates it. Don't get me wrong, I won games but it's not playing at the same level as the current meta lists.
  2. The question I ask myself for a tournament is how my list kills 1 mega a turn. I'm not seeing that kind of reliable dmg over 3 or 4 turns in this list.
  3. Had a difference in rules reading today in a game with Belakor. On his ability to reroll hits, i read the rule to say that there needed to be at least 1 plague bearer, bloodletter, damonette, AND horror within 18". My opponents read was that it only requires 1 unit from the list of basic demon warscrolls. Can anyone confirm which interpretation is correct? Thanks!
  4. Has anyone heard what's going on with Kroak? He's no longer available/Sold Online according to the US site: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Seraphon-Lord-Kroak
  5. I've run 9 korgorath as msu in skulltaker. At the time they were about 25 usd each on eBay. With skulltaker and some support they are outrageous, though I've always lost on points since model count is so low. I've gotten pretty close though, maybe just needs some practice. When you go full meme tho you're not really playing to win since you've already won in your heart.
  6. My experince has been that they can compete in mid level games, but don't do well in matches vs popular meta lists. In my case I've played against Kroak seraphon and Katakros/archaon OBR. The problem I run into is that to win my lists tend to need too much to go right. There's not enough room for error or random chance to really hold up. When the lists work its great, but most of the time I hold ground to t3 and then my lines crumble and things break through or I'm straight tabled. The only thing keeping me in games is using Belakor's ability to hamstring a big threat for 1-2 turns. Which is probably why i end up folding in t3 when theres nothing left to slow the opponents down. That said, getting 20-30 free pink horrors was too much. Getting 10-15 doesn't feel like enough since you also loose the command of the banner. I'm sure there's some competitive lists out there, but in a shooting meta we don't charge t1, we aren't hyper durable, and we don't have reliable shooting with synergy. Hard to hold up until things shift as far as i can tell. I'm curious is anyone has had more luck against seraphon, tzeench, or kharadron.
  7. LOL. My bad I forgot how out of meta Deepstrike, Changehost, Karadron, Seraphon, magic and mortal wounds are. Fun fact, if you read the post you'd see I already addressed what you say. Ill help you out and quote it. Anyway, if the list of tools in each army is so obviously wrong, why not just respond with a similar list showing everyone how wrong it is point by point. Saying there's no valid points and then providing no actual examples seems to me like some desperate grasping at straws. The reality is that basic tools like screening keep it all under control, but hey, if you want to pretend that teleporting tarpit units is somehow a brand new game breaking mechanic then I guess its your life to live.
  8. If you read the post the youd know the point is they dont have to attack the liberators, nearly everyone has tools to mitigate getting charged by a bunch of weak units.
  9. So lets look at this OP damage from the big scary Liberator 40 block using the 3,3,-,1 stats you call out vs a number of saves RR nothing: 2+ 0.99 3+ 3.95 4+ 8.89 5+ 15.8 6+ 24.69 So its not impressive AVG damage for the points, no shocker there. +1 on libs makes their plush pillow fists into firm pillow fists. Another +1 to hit isn't going to blow this up. But lets be fair to the crux of the complaint which revolves around the idea that 40 libs on 3+ RR1 is beyond the limits of "most" armies when it can get you in your deployment top of T1. Why don't we list all the armies and see which ones might not have an answer to this style. *NOTE every list can win and that includes the front line liberators, but we are just asking if there are tools in the other armies to deal with a bunch of trash in their front yard. If the argument is "what if their teleport doesn't go off", that means you're admitting they have a way out and maybe its not as bleak as you say. Every plan and counter can fail, so if they cant get out 100% of the time that doesn't make the STE list OP. it just means the STE list is viable (which I think most people agree that it is very viable.) Beasts of Chaos (Chaos) Almost anything can give BoC a hard time, lets be real here, but hey reliable board edge summoning so they aren't trapped. Blades of Khorne (Chaos) Blood thirstier counter charge can break out, lost of cheap MSU deaths allows summoning elsewhere on the board. Tyrant's of blood are going to wreck your life. Disciples of Tzeentch (Chaos) Changehost teleporting, you're doing them a favor by allowing their flamers to blow you up T1 at close range. Pinks laugh in Rorschach while yelling "I'm not trapped with you, you're trapped in here with me." Hedonites of Slaanesh (Chaos) Just just charged 40 depravity into the keepers. Don't deploy near them? Great, they have countered your play by dictating no-go zones. Maggotkin of Nurgle (Chaos) I'm not as familiar with the MoN lists, but pinning them in would limit their contagion points. Might be rough if they just run a ton of blight kings like I've seen. Ill give STE the benefit of the doubt here. Skaven (Chaos) WLC those heroes and the battle shock off the troops who cant get a CP to stay. High saves? Welcome to mortal wound town. Skryre is popular, so I don't think this is a stretch, not like it requires moulder or eshin which is not usually run. Slaves to Darkness (Chaos) Gonna just yeet some marauder/Chaos warrior blocks behind you with veil of darkness which I don't think I've ever seen anyone NOT take. Flesh-Eater Courts (Death) Terrorgheists lol Legions of Nagash (Death) Old book, and nagash cant catch a break. Ill give STE this one since I cant remember the last time I saw LoN have a strong play in general. Nighthaunt (Death) Put half the army in deepstrike. Not pinned in now. Sadly you're still nighthaunt but that's not what we are looking at here. Ossiarch Bonereapers (Death) Please charge my mortek guard so you can mitigate the slowness that is one of my army's flaws. Then get mowed over. Gloomspite Gitz (Destruction) They are going to screen and Hand of Gork into the backfield, because like who isn't running HoG. Mawtribes (Destruction, Beastclaw Raiders merged with Gutbusters) They spread out their deployment and then you maybe get 2 stonehorns, but then...you're in combat with the stonehorns. Cry as they play the dancing coffin meme while your units experience melee with multiple stonehorns. The rest of the army goes monster truck rally in the backfield. Orruk Warclans (Destruction, Ironjawz merged with Bonesplitterz) Same as Gloomspite with Hand of Gork, but they can also add a counter charge with the rest of the army for double jeopardy. Sons of Behemat (Destruction) They will literally walk over your front lines with longshanks and kite you around the map with their 20-30 model count bodies controlling objectives ignoring scenario control rules to their advantage. Cities of Sigmar (Order) Couple be a problem, they don't have a teleport that I'm aware of and I'm not remembering a bunch of mortal wounds. Not super familiar with the army though, so giving this to STE as a binifit of the doubt. Daughters of Khaine (Order) Fast deepstrike flyers and you charge their deathstar that screens with some chaff. Why would you charge the DoK deathstar with libs? Because loosing is fun maybe. Fyreslayers (Order) Deepstrike that fat unit of hearth guard, its not like Lib trash will kill anything anyway. Idoneth Deepkin (Order) Deepstrike those eels ftw Kharadron Overlords (Order) Fly high, pew hard Lumineth Realm-lords (Order) Gonna mortal wound your heroes off and then bravery shenanigans your blocks off the board with even more mortal wounds. Seraphon (Order) 100% reliable teleports, summoning, board wide mortal wound spam, OH MY Stormcast Eternals (Order) If they aren't a mirror match then they are half in the sky and not stuck in their deployment. Sylvaneth (Order) Going to get around with the wild woods, though you can try and screen them out, i still think this counts as having the mobility to get around if they screen correctly. I dont think 3/24 counts as "most armies"
  10. The real advantage to the hammers is that SCE have a number of ways to get +1 hit. That means its easy to get 2+/3 on hammers, but swords only ever sit at 2+/4+ due to the general lack of +1 wound. Without buffs they are close dmg wise, but once you stack some + hit the hammers start coming out ahead.
  11. The idea of teleporting 9" away from the enemy and being able to get Sureheart from your deployment zone to a point that gets 30-60 libs wholly within 12" is divorced from reality. Furthermore, he's talking about getting the castellants's +1 save on both units, but they are back in your deployment zone and use their ability in the hero phase, so there is no way you get them into position for that not-reading-the-rules reality he's describing in turn 1. I doubt you even get them in turn 2 unless you're spending a command point or two maxing your run rolls. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like in these battalions, I'm just not impressed with the breakdown of a scenario that's not based in any realistic game scenario I can imagine. Maybe I'm missing something obvious that brings this all together? Roast me if I am.
  12. If a unit of decimators attacks a garrisoned terrain feature like a building, do they count the models in the garrison when calculating attacks? Is it the same for garrisoned KO ships? Thanks!
  13. All the abilities are either for him or require him to be on the board. Maybe the spell doesn't need him? Taking it and not him makes no sense.
  14. I like the advice! This gave me an extra 30 pts, so i added the palisade to help with screening if I'm lucky enough to get it off. I'll give it a shot using the following once I've got the last 2 HBA's built unless anyone else has ideas/opinions. Allegiance: SkaventideGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Command Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Skavenbrew- Lore of Ruin: Death FrenzyMaster Moulder (100)- Artefact: Rabid CrownMaster Moulder (100)6 x Rat Ogors (270)40 x Giant Rats (200)10 x Giant Rats (60)10 x Giant Rats (60)10 x Giant Rats (60)3 x Packmasters (60)Hell Pit Abomination (220)Hell Pit Abomination (220)Hell Pit Abomination (220)Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)Prismatic Palisade (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 159
  15. I'm looking for a moulder list I can run just to keep things spicy. Below is my current list, my curious if there is any feedback on how to improve. Right now im thinking the 2 HBA's run of one side with the ogres, rats, packmasters and bell up the other. Thoughts? Allegiance: SkaventideGrey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)- General- Command Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Skavenbrew- Lore of Ruin: WarpgaleMaster Moulder (100)- Artefact: Rabid CrownMaster Moulder (100)Master Moulder (100)40 x Giant Rats (200)4 x Rat Ogors (180)4 x Rat Ogors (180)3 x Packmasters (60)Hell Pit Abomination (220)Hell Pit Abomination (220)Hell Pit Abomination (220)Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)Total: 1980 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 142
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