AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Landohammer]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:44 PM, Pennydude said:

This wood literally make the extra Wyldwoods  unusable though.  I haven’t seen or heard of the 3” restriction this from anyone else.

My 2020GHB is packed up for moving so I can’t just reference it.

Yea I play 6-3-1 on my free forest, and 1-1-1 on my summoned forests. Enforcing 6-3-1 on summoned forests would make them effectively unplaceable on any regulation terrain board after turn 1.  I play in a lot of tournaments and everyone is cool with using the warscroll/codex restrictions. 

[Landohammer]

Tournament update! I took durthu and 21 Kurnoth Hunters to a 2-game friendly tourney. We were covid-capped at 10 people. Here is a quick summary of my two games.

Vs Legion of Blood. (Blades Edge)

A cool army with a Vampire lord on dragon, Neferatta, and a bunch of blood knights. His bloodknights and  Zombie dragon wrecked everything they touched. Frustratingly Durthu and Scythes managed to whiff multiple times in combats that should have been easy. The  greatsword hunters carried the team, and my squads of 5 spites punched above their weight in a few fights.  I also lost every priority roll which didn't help. The game came down to a fight over a single objective, where a 5+ save roll on my last  hunter decided control of the objective. Sadly I failed it and lost 11-12. Great game!

Vs Fyreslayers (Forcing the Hand)

Because of how the wins/losses fell and my higher VP score, I got paired vs a winner and this list was brutal. 40 Hearthguard berzerkers, and all the characters to support them.

I knew this was basically unwinnable, but rather than playing for the tie (like a smart person) I tried to play aggressively , betting everything on Durthu getting his stomp off. Naturally I failed the 4+ and they used their always strike first command ability to easily kill durthu and then wipe out my unit of Scythes. I counter charged with two units of greatswords but failed both  charges. A single unit of Hearthguard killed 1400pts of my army.

Luckily between my spite screens and some lucky dryad summons, I was able to effectively stall the majority of his army and stay ahead on objectives. However by turn 4 everything was dead and he was able to run onto my objectives unopposed, for a brutal 8 point gain on the bottom of turn 5.  So I lost 16-20

Summary

Lost twice, but had a blast. I felt like I did about as well as Sylvaneth could do in a tournament full of good players. The first game definitely felt winnable if my dice hadn't failed so hard.  But that particular fyreslayer list felt unbeatable, at least not without shooting to snipe  out  his characters. 

 

[Pennydude]

26 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Yea I play 6-3-1 on my free forest, and 1-1-1 on my summoned forests. Enforcing 6-3-1 on summoned forests would make them effectively unplaceable on any regulation terrain board after turn 1.  I play in a lot of tournaments and everyone is cool with using the warscroll/codex restrictions. 

That is exactly how I play it and nobody has ever given me any trouble.

[Pennydude]

4 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Vs Legion of Blood. (Blades Edge)

A cool army with a Vampire lord on dragon, Neferatta, and a bunch of blood knights. His bloodknights and  Zombie dragon wrecked everything they touched. Frustratingly Durthu and Scythes managed to whiff multiple times in combats that should have been easy. The  greatsword hunters carried the team, and my squads of 5 spites punched above their weight in a few fights.  I also lost every priority roll which didn't help. The game came down to a fight over a single objective, where a 5+ save roll on my last  hunter decided control of the objective. Sadly I failed it and lost 11-12. Great game!

The one time I faced a Legion of Blood army with Bloodknights and VLoD, I had a block of 30 Dryads to screen for my 6 Scythes, TLA, and Drycha.  Right on queue, he charged and obliterated my Dryads.  

I then absolutely murdered all his Bloodknights on the return volley.  Drycha eventually took out the VLoD after he stopped my Durthu from attacking and then killed him.  

I also think GeeDub reducing the Hearthguard Berzerkers from 30 blocks to 20 just made them better and it sucks.  I've only beaten one Fyreslayers player and I didn't have to fight a crapton of HGBs.

[Landohammer]

11 minutes ago, Pennydude said:

The one time I faced a Legion of Blood army with Bloodknights and VLoD, I had a block of 30 Dryads to screen for my 6 Scythes, TLA, and Drycha.  Right on queue, he charged and obliterated my Dryads.  

I then absolutely murdered all his Bloodknights on the return volley.  Drycha eventually took out the VLoD after he stopped my Durthu from attacking and then killed him.  

I also think GeeDub reducing the Hearthguard Berzerkers from 30 blocks to 20 just made them better and it sucks.  I've only beaten one Fyreslayers player and I didn't have to fight a crapton of HGBs.

I effectively did just that. The issue was that Neferata has a -1 to hit Aura. Putting 9 Scythes and Durthu at -1 to hit is absolutely brutal.  He also put 3 mortals on Durthu with a spell so he definitely knew how to mitigate durthu's output. Combine that with some mediocre rolling and you end up with zero damage output lol.

So berzerkers are already S tier infantry in my book. Their movement is supposed to be their biggest (and only) weakness. But when you give them the ability to deepstrike and trigger ASF, it completely negates that weakness and just makes them essentially unstoppable unless you have a ton of shooting. 

This just pushes me back to taking some allied shooting. (or just fielding Sylvaneth in Cities so I can take a Hurricanum). 

 

 

 

[Pennydude]

3 hours ago, Landohammer said:

I effectively did just that. The issue was that Neferata has a -1 to hit Aura. Putting 9 Scythes and Durthu at -1 to hit is absolutely brutal.  He also put 3 mortals on Durthu with a spell so he definitely knew how to mitigate durthu's output. Combine that with some mediocre rolling and you end up with zero damage output lol.

So berzerkers are already S tier infantry in my book. Their movement is supposed to be their biggest (and only) weakness. But when you give them the ability to deepstrike and trigger ASF, it completely negates that weakness and just makes them essentially unstoppable unless you have a ton of shooting. 

This just pushes me back to taking some allied shooting. (or just fielding Sylvaneth in Cities so I can take a Hurricanum). 

I didn't realize that about Neferata and wow that's pretty strong.  

Yeah, HGBs are stupid and need to be hit with a nerfbat until they go back underground.  It does seem like GW is going away from the activation wars which I'm not sure how to feel about that.  I think the activation shenanigans are fine but just needed a facelift.  

I also thought about jumping into Living City but decided to get Deepkin as the next army to paint with my wife and Sons of Behemat as a personal project.

[Mirage8112]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:20 AM, Landohammer said:

So berzerkers are already S tier infantry in my book. Their movement is supposed to be their biggest (and only) weakness. But when you give them the ability to deepstrike and trigger ASF, it completely negates that weakness and just makes them essentially unstoppable unless you have a ton of shooting. 

I would think a big block like that could be chaffed for at least a couple of turns.  4” move and 8” range of mediocre shooting should mean they spend a turn or two clearing useless models rather than getting stuck into the body of your army. Of course, that wont work unless you actually bring chaff. 

Dropping T-revs (because they’re the most mobile) 13-4” in front of the block means they wouldn’t even be able to shoot until the next turn. Then next turn they could try shoot, clear 1-3 maybe (1 shot 5+/5+ no rend vs 5+ save rerolling one dice)  but then they cannot run. They could charge, but then they have the problem of needing to close an 8-9” charge gap.

You could do with spites too, but you’d need a WW in the right place to pull it off. 

[Landohammer]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:24 PM, Mirage8112 said:

I would think a big block like that could be chaffed for at least a couple of turns.  4” move and 8” range of mediocre shooting should mean they spend a turn or two clearing useless models rather than getting stuck into the body of your army. Of course, that wont work unless you actually bring chaff. 

Dropping T-revs (because they’re the most mobile) 13-4” in front of the block means they wouldn’t even be able to shoot until the next turn. Then next turn they could try shoot, clear 1-3 maybe (1 shot 5+/5+ no rend vs 5+ save rerolling one dice)  but then they cannot run. They could charge, but then they have the problem of needing to close an 8-9” charge gap.

You could do with spites too, but you’d need a WW in the right place to pull it off. 

You are correct. And this is what I did to some extent.  I made him eat through 3 units of spites and 2 summoned units of dryads. I even screened with my Branchwraith to some extent. But that playstyle is super limited on what battleplans it will work on. Because I am functionally forfeiting any objectives in his territory it means, at best, I can play for a tie. 

Tree Revs may have had some use but this particular list has several melee characters that camped objectives  and could have EASILY disposed of 5 revs. 

I stand by the decision to try for the alpha with Durthu and hope for the 4+. Had that single dice roll went in my favor I could have perhaps did enough damage to berzerkers so that they didn't auto-kill everything they touched later lol.

 

 

[Mirage8112]

On 3/8/2021 at 5:23 AM, Landohammer said:

You are correct. And this is what I did to some extent.  I made him eat through 3 units of spites and 2 summoned units of dryads. I even screened with my Branchwraith to some extent. But that playstyle is super limited on what battleplans it will work on. Because I am functionally forfeiting any objectives in his territory it means, at best, I can play for a tie. 

Tree Revs may have had some use but this particular list has several melee characters that camped objectives  and could have EASILY disposed of 5 revs. 

What was the battleplan? 

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, Mirage8112 said:

What was the battleplan? 

Forcing the hand

[velocitydog]

Hello! New Sylvaneth player here.  I've picked up some models for Warcry and want to expand to a full army.  I realize they are not the most competitive these days but I've always loved the models and have worked up a swampy Halloween-themed paint scheme I'm pretty happy with.  As I was looking through the battletome and model range I was really drawn to Durthu and the Kurnoth Hunters which , from what I've read, are pretty solid units.  This naturally got me interested in the Free Spirits battalion but I had a question about the ability.  The book says that instead of making a run roll add 6" to the Move characteristic of the unit.  Does that 6" still count as a Run or is it still a Move meaning the unit can charge afterwards?

Thanks,

velocitydog

[Pennydude]

4 minutes ago, velocitydog said:

Hello! New Sylvaneth player here.  I've picked up some models for Warcry and want to expand to a full army.  I realize they are not the most competitive these days but I've always loved the models and have worked up a swampy Halloween-themed paint scheme I'm pretty happy with.  As I was looking through the battletome and model range I was really drawn to Durthu and the Kurnoth Hunters which , from what I've read, are pretty solid units.  This naturally got me interested in the Free Spirits battalion but I had a question about the ability.  The book says that instead of making a run roll add 6" to the Move characteristic of the unit.  Does that 6" still count as a Run or is it still a Move meaning the unit can charge afterwards?

Thanks,

velocitydog

Welcome to the grove!!  Unfortunately, it's still a "run" so you are unable to charge if you use the Free Spirit's ability.  You declare that you will run with the unit and either roll a D6 or use the FA's automatic 6" and add that to your move.

[velocitydog]

Thanks! I had a feeling that might be the case.  Is the auto 6" run (+ the extra CP and artifact) considered to be good enough to justify the cost of the battalion?  It does reduce the number of drops but if I run a 4th unit of Kurnoth (I was thinking 2x 3 greatsword, 1x 6 scythe and 1x 3 bow) but when I add a branchwraith, Arch-Revenant (or 2 since I have so many Kurnoth Hunters) and three battleline units I'm not sure how much it helps.

Edited March 18, 2021 by velocitydog

[Pennydude]

2 minutes ago, velocitydog said:

Thanks! I had a feeling that might be the case.  Is the auto 6" run (+ the extra CP and artifact) considered to be good enough to justify the cost of the battalion?  It does reduce the number of drops but if I run a 4th unit of Kurnoth (I was thinking 2x 3 greatsword, 1x 6 scythe and 1x bow) but when I add a branchwraith, Arch-Revenant (or 2 since I have so many Kurnoth Hunters) and three battleline units I'm not sure how much it helps.

Generally, Free Spirits is not worth the points but that shouldn't discourage you from trying it out.  One of the more common things to take is three units of 5 Spite-Revenants and the Outcast battalion.  That's only 280pts, fulfills the battleline requirements, turns 3 drops into 1, and gives you the artefact and CP.  

I love my Bow Kurnoths but shy away from only running one.  I usually lean to 2-3 units at a minimum when using them.  Your Scythes and GSwords are just fine as is.

[velocitydog]

Yeah, I've seen that battalion mentioned.  Is it good mostly for the reduced drops and extra CP/artefact because the ability seem kinda meh (unless I'm missing something).  

Are your bows units of 3 to maximize target flexibility?  

 

[Pennydude]

34 minutes ago, velocitydog said:

Yeah, I've seen that battalion mentioned.  Is it good mostly for the reduced drops and extra CP/artefact because the ability seem kinda meh (unless I'm missing something).  

It's used because it's cheap and maximizes points you can use on more impactful units like more Kurnoths.

 

35 minutes ago, velocitydog said:

Are your bows units of 3 to maximize target flexibility?  

Bows are in 3s because of the +1 to hit for the Huntmaster (so it hits on 3s instead of 4s).  I try to keep them within Arch-Rev range (or wizard in Gnarlroot) for the re-roll 1s to hit buff.  While they may not have the damage output, they can keep your opponent honest with their movement since you have an effective 35" threat range.

The reason you run Scythes in 6s (or even 9s on occasions and sometimes Swords in 6s) is for that big, persistent combat threat and to maximize the Arch-Rev's CA ability.  That gives you "sacrificial" wounds so your units can keep blending and hold their ground longer in combat.

[RareDesire]

Hallo. 
 

im considering starting this army. 
Are there any go to lists for turnements?

i know there not in the best place at the movement but i stil like to play the hardes/best list that they Can make.

also just to get an idear of how a list whould look like. 
 
Thanks in advance.  And sorry for bad English. 

[Craze]

I guess there is no consent right now what "the hardest" list is right now. From my point of view Winterleaf + many Hunters with close to zero need for successful casting is the most competitive that we can field right now. 

[Lanoss]

EG something like this

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf
Spirit of Durthu (300)
- General
- Command Trait: My Heart Is Ice  
- Artefact: Frozen Kernel  
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

Wouldn’t say it’s the most competitive but your opponent will be hard pressed to deal with all these hunters across up the board - Can swap 1x Branchwraith and 3xHunters for a TLA. But you’re probably just as good without him

[Craze]

You could drop Cogs + 1x BW for the TLA, which could be worth.

[Landohammer]

On 3/22/2021 at 2:51 AM, Lanoss said:

EG something like this

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
- Glade: Winterleaf
Spirit of Durthu (300)
- General
- Command Trait: My Heart Is Ice  
- Artefact: Frozen Kernel  
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (380)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Spiteswarm Hive (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

Wouldn’t say it’s the most competitive but your opponent will be hard pressed to deal with all these hunters across up the board - Can swap 1x Branchwraith and 3xHunters for a TLA. But you’re probably just as good without him

This is pretty close to the ideal list, but personally I would merge the sword hunters into units of 6. A unit of 3 just doesn't do enough damage to cripple units. 

I would also drop Cogs for an Arch Revenant. Having access to +1 attack CA is absolutely huge with hunters. Cogs helps your opponent as much as it helps you.

I have also found Durthu to be EXTREMELY swingy. It seems like he does 30 damage or whiffs completely. I personally prefer Drycha. Though I do admit Frozen Kernel on Durthu can allow him to shine when it matters most.

[velocitydog]

Or maybe an Arch Revenant to buff your hunters?

[Popisdead]

4 hours ago, Landohammer said:

This is pretty close to the ideal list, but personally I would merge the sword hunters into units of 6. A unit of 3 just doesn't do enough damage to cripple units. 

It could also be Dreadwood for teleporting the Hunters (while a durthu realm walks).  It will also help the 1" reach with Swords as you can hopefully get them all in CC.  

[Landohammer]

1 minute ago, Popisdead said:

It could also be Dreadwood for teleporting the Hunters (while a durthu realm walks).  It will also help the 1" reach with Swords as you can hopefully get them all in CC.  

On of the top Sylvaneth players in the world plays Dreadwood, and I think its also solid. But its overly reliant on getting the Hive casted. And I have found the meta to be absolutely brutal on shutting down spells.  Lumineth can turn off Dreadwood entirely. 

Without the hive then you are just praying for 9+ on charges and that is not a good way to win games. My Living City army has proven that many times over lol. 

[Popisdead]

2 hours ago, Landohammer said:

On of the top Sylvaneth players in the world plays Dreadwood, and I think its also solid. But its overly reliant on getting the Hive casted. And I have found the meta to be absolutely brutal on shutting down spells.  Lumineth can turn off Dreadwood entirely. 

Without the hive then you are just praying for 9+ on charges and that is not a good way to win games. My Living City army has proven that many times over lol. 

fair enough and good point.  I'm classically a Harvestboon player.  I just wish Dryads were more viable.