Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Mirage8112]

double post

[Mirage8112]

19 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Yeah our allies don't bring that much but EG has been mentioned already.

I don't see any compelling reason to bring EG. At least not in a sylvaneth allegiance army. They really don't do anything better than what we already have. 

That being said, here's the direction I'm thinking the designers were going when making Wanderers Allies with Sylvaneth . I haven't worked out the bugs, but this is the "rough list" idea

 Allegiance: Order
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gift of Ghyran  
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri  
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
30 x Dryads (270)
30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (220)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (180)
Household (70)

Allies
30 x Glade Guard (360)
1 x Gryph hound
 

1930 pts

This is a different list from anything I've played with Sylvaneth before. It is potentially a 3 drop army, so it stands a reasonable chance of competing for first turn (or the choosing of second, both have their advantages in a list like this). The game play aims to take advantage of the armies, massive frontage to push up across the board effectively preventing anything from going around. The TLA would support the dryads on the left side, and the SotT would support the dryads on the right, with a wide shooting center running up the middle. The gyphhounds are there to guard the rear and flank in case aything wants to get tricky and try to set-up behind the lines. If they try, they'll be forced to deploy well out of range and shooting can easily pick them off before they become a solid threat. 

Lots of bodies and solid resiliency makes a mistake or two less costly (like is sisters fluff a shield of thorns roll for example). Ideally I'd like to get the sisters up to a unit of 10, but the points just aren't there unfortunately. 

 

[Mirage8112]

8 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

Rangers are still too pricey for what they do but we have little choice if we want to use Wanderer allegiance. Rangers have a weaker save than other Aelven elites and a niche ability that's easy to avoid (monsters move faster) and some armies don't even field monsters. How can Rangers cost the same as Executioners?  They should be 160 pts like Phoenix guard or 140 pts like Storm Vermin who have the same stats and get access to +1 Attack buff. 

I think Rangers will find a lot more utility in the game after this last update. I'm fairly certain we'll be seeing a lot more monsters on the field as the game goes on. 

 

10 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

Wanderers keep getting given niche/situational abilities which are not easy to use where as everyone else seems to get good solid always usable abilities like 4+ ward save or Mortal wounds on 6's etc.   It's bad enough our war scrolls give us bonuses when we don't move or when we stay in cover as they clash with our allegiance abilities. Wanderers needs a proper overhaul and I fear after this update we won't be getting anything else.

There's a lot of cool stuff I see as being viable for a wanderer army, even without allies. It might not be how you want to play but this really looks like the designers are pushing WE toward the Saythelia list style of 5th edition WHFB, where units charge and retreat repeatedly, shooting the entire time. 

I haven't played with them yet, but I see a lot of viability in that playstyle if your inclined to use it. 

[WABBIT]

Oops In my previous post I thought I was posting in the "Let's Chat Wanderers" thread not Sylvaneth (I collect both) so when I refer to "us" I meant wanderer armies. . Thanks for the feed back Mirage.

[Mirage8112]

1 minute ago, WABBIT said:

Oops In my previous post I thought I was posting in the "Let's Chat Wanderers" thread not Sylvaneth (I collect both) so when I refer to "us" I meant wanderer armies. . Thanks for the feed back Mirage.

No problem! Wood Elves were one of my first armies. I had a real soft spot for them and it nice to see them with the trees again

 

[scrubyandwells]

Here's some thoughts after chewing on GH17 a bit more: 

On Warhammer Weekly last Saturday, we had a long chat about GH17 Matched Play. One of the points discussed was what @StoneMonk called "alpha-blocking," and what I'll call it's twin, "alpha-bunkering."

An example of alpha-blocking is @Thomas Lyons' Nurgle list, which in round 1 usually saw Sayl sling forward 28 Chaos Warriors, strung-out in a horizontal line. They have excellent durability and damage/mortal-wound output due to the buffs on them, so they're difficult for most armies to shift, which is a problem, since Sayl throws them in your face, strung out across your army's front. 

An example of alpha-bunkering is a Runesmiter tunneling 30 Vulkite Berzerkers onto an objective in round 1, and zoning out the objective. It's hell for most armies to chew through that unit and claim the objective, given their level of durability (and they also have more punch now, thanks to the Fyreslayers' allegiance abilities).

In sum, we may see both tactics – which often go together – become a lot more common in GH17.

I suspect they'll work particularly well in four of the six new Pitched Battles: Duality of Death, Total Conquest, Battle for the Pass, and Scorched Earth. Alpha-blocking, though, especially Tom's variety (stringing a durable unit out across the board), could work well in all six scenarios, depending on the quality of that blocking unit.

Let's say you're playing Sylvaneth in Duality of Death, and you go up against Fyreslayers, Seraphon, Khorne, or a number of other factions that can deploy the above tactics effectively. Let's say you're running a zero-battalion list, and they have fewer drops. That means at the top of round 1, they could proceed to alpha-block both objectives with x30+ sized units, zoning you out from getting any of your heroes or behemoths within 3", while getting their own heroes or behemoths set up to start scoring.

At that point, you could be in for a long day. If you have a good amount of shooting, you could potentially shoot off their heroes before they score too many points. Sooner than later, though, you'll to have to deplete the blocking units to start scoring; and if it takes too long, you may not be able to catch up.

One of my tentative views is we may struggle vs armies/players that deploy the above tactics well. In particular, if we're getting out-dropped, it'll likely mean we'll have fewer Wyldwoods down on objectives (and none of our units in those woods), and in turn we'll likely have to chew through our opponent's blocking/bunkering units, which could put us way behind the eight ball. 

So, what can we do?

Thanks to Dryads, we can deploy these tactics reasonably well, although maybe (emphasis on maybe) a little less effectively than others (...TBD). 

While the way GH17 has pointed battalions makes a lot of sense, it may force our faction into an even tougher choice than most. In order to compete similarly to how we were in GH16, we may still have to rely on optimizing the value of Wyldwoods relative to playing/winning the scenarios. If we're getting out-dropped and alpha-blocked/bunkered, though, we may not be able to optimize their value, and in turn we may not compete as well (...again, this is speculation...keep the salt handy).

With all that in mind, a 1-drop sylvaneth list may remain the way to go, despite the considerable price.

Winterleaf with Forest Folk looks especially intriguing, since it:

• raises the value of Dryads (already one of the most efficient options we have),
• allows us to take 1 Order unit while remaining a 1-drop, and most importantly,
• allows us to use the Forest Folk battalion's Fade from View to redeploy four units of Dryads anywhere in our territory or within 3" of a Wyldwood + 9" from enemy units.

The last one is what allows us to do alpha-blocking/bunkering. 

Here's one example of a Winterleaf list with that in mind. It's almost certainly not the best, but hopefully it'll spark some ideas. 

• Ancient 300
• Branchwych 80
• Branchwraith 80
• 30 Dryads 270
• 20 Dryads 200
• 20 Dryads 200
• 10 Dryads 100
• 3 Scythes 220
• Frostheart Phoenix 240
• Winterleaf 200
• Forest Folk 110

I'll try to write up notes soon re: details behind that list. One is the three wizards should be able to increase the Frostheart Phoenix's save, which when combined with it's 4+ feel no pain + respectable damage output + great speed, gives us a resilient threat to throw at our opponent early, or a great support piece via it's Blizzard Aura.

With all that said, I'd be worried about running into armies that can melt a lot of Dryads quickly (e.g., Tzeentch, Skryre, mortal-wound-oriented Stormcast, maybe Pestilens, et al.). 

And 310 points, in the end, is a lot to pay for Winterleaf + Forest Folk. It's hard to say at the moment whether it'd be worth it.

[Kaylethia]

28 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

An example of alpha-bunkering is a Runesmiter tunneling 30 Vulkite Berzerkers onto an objective in round 1, and zoning out the objective. It's hell for most armies to chew through that unit and claim the objective, given their level of durability (and they also have more punch now, thanks to the Fyreslayers' allegiance abilities).

This bit caught my eye, since I'm slowly planning out a 2000 point Ironbark list with Fyreslayer infantry and a Runesmiter. I was discussing this over the weekend with a friend who collects and fields duardin of almost all kinds, who agreed that many other duardin units would simply lag behind your main army, forced to run every turn, forgoing any shield wall shenanigans and likely getting picked off by shooting or simply arriving too late. Pre-GHB17, I was also considering running Bugmans Rangers in Ironbark, but that's gone now. 

What do you think about the viability of such a list, since it gives us the option to get units onto an objective that may be too close to an objective to plant a wyldwood? 230 points for the battalion is steep, but could come from running a small unit of allies or none at all. 

[Aezeal]

12 hours ago, WABBIT said:

Rangers are still too pricey for what they do but we have little choice if we want to use Wanderer allegiance. Rangers have a weaker save than other Aelven elites and a niche ability that's easy to avoid (monsters move faster) and some armies don't even field monsters. How can Rangers cost the same as Executioners?  They should be 160 pts like Phoenix guard or 140 pts like Storm Vermin who have the same stats and get access to +1 Attack buff.

 Wanderers keep getting given niche/situational abilities which are not easy to use where as everyone else seems to get good solid always usable abilities like 4+ ward save or Mortal wounds on 6's etc.   It's bad enough our war scrolls give us bonuses when we don't move or when we stay in cover as they clash with our allegiance abilities. Wanderers needs a proper overhaul and I fear after this update we won't be getting anything else.

I still stand by my mega strategy post in the wanderer topic, I think they have potential to be very annoying. The only thing will be to see if they can play the objectives well. 

[Aezeal]

13 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

I don't see any compelling reason to bring EG. At least not in a sylvaneth allegiance army. They really don't do anything better than what we already have. 

Well especially with the free sylvaneth wyldwood they are a cheaper and more durable tarpit than sylvaneth have.  I must admit I'd probably just use dryads myself since they do more damage and they are faster so all round more flexible.

 

13 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Allegiance: Order
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gift of Ghyran  
- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri  
- Deepwood Spell: The Dwellers Below
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
30 x Dryads (270)
30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (220)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (180)
Household (70)

Allies
30 x Glade Guard (360)
1 x Gryph hound

You seem to lack any heavy hitters. I doubt it will work as well as some other lists but maybe they will turn out to be good in taking and keeping objectives though. The same for scrubs latest list but the mobility it gives might be better for the objective game. I'd try the lists you posted last week before these, if you pay for the batallions dreadwood seems to bring most for the points. Especially the gnarlroot spell seems not optimally used without hunters to heal.

[Paul G]

First draft of a 2017 Dreadwood list, could swap out the tree revs for a Branchwych maybe. Considering equipping the TLA with the Moonstone too. Comes out at 1980.

What do people think? Oh I don't have / want Alarielle!

TLA
Drycha

4 x 5 Spites
30 Dryads
5 Tree Revs
6 Kurnoth with Scythes

Dreadwood
Outcasts

[Aezeal]

31 minutes ago, Paul G said:

First draft of a 2017 Dreadwood list, could swap out the tree revs for a Branchwych maybe. Considering equipping the TLA with the Moonstone too. Comes out at 1980.

What do people think? Oh I don't have / want Alarielle!

TLA
Drycha

4 x 5 Spites
30 Dryads
5 Tree Revs
6 Kurnoth with Scythes

Dreadwood
Outcasts
 

How do you think this would compare with the alarielle dreadwood lists?

[WABBIT]

Has anyone considered the Tree Rev and Spite Hordes? They don't look very cost effective to me, 1" range and 30 models means many won't get into combat until the front line are dead. Are they really going to be worth taking? 

If anyone is considering taking one or 2 can you share your ideas on how they could work? The Dryads are so effective and cheap now I only get Tree Rev's if I want a cheap battleline tax unit or to fulfil a battalion requirement.

[scrubyandwells]

1 hour ago, WABBIT said:

Has anyone considered the Tree Rev and Spite Hordes? They don't look very cost effective to me, 1" range and 30 models means many won't get into combat until the front line are dead. Are they really going to be worth taking? 

If anyone is considering taking one or 2 can you share your ideas on how they could work? The Dryads are so effective and cheap now I only get Tree Rev's if I want a cheap battleline tax unit or to fulfil a battalion requirement.

Yeah personally love the models but still finding it tough to figure out a tournament-viable build with a bunch of them...

[scrubyandwells]

5 hours ago, Paul G said:

First draft of a 2017 Dreadwood list, could swap out the tree revs for a Branchwych maybe. Considering equipping the TLA with the Moonstone too. Comes out at 1980.

What do people think? Oh I don't have / want Alarielle!

TLA
Drycha

4 x 5 Spites
30 Dryads
5 Tree Revs
6 Kurnoth with Scythes

Dreadwood
Outcasts
 

Looks like a fun list! If it's intended to be an alphastrike, though, not sure it'll have enough punch...guess it'll be very opponent-list dependent, as with a lot of things.

[scrubyandwells]

Here's a Gnarlroot list that looks pretty interesting, designed to fight within/around Wyldwoods:

Treelord Ancient 
 Gnarled Warrior
 Oaken Armour
 Regrowth
Drycha
 Verdant Blessing
Branchwych 
 Acorn of the Ages
 Throne of Vines
10 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
5 Tree-Revenants
3 Kurnoth Scythes
3 Kurnoth Scythes
3 Kurnoth Bows
20 Eternal Guard
Gnarlroot
Household
1990

[Mirage8112]

17 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

On Warhammer Weekly last Saturday, we had a long chat about GH17 Matched Play. One of the points discussed was what @StoneMonk called "alpha-blocking," and what I'll call it's twin, "alpha-bunkering."

An example of alpha-blocking is @Thomas Lyons' Nurgle list, which in round 1 usually saw Sayl sling forward 28 Chaos Warriors, strung-out in a horizontal line. They have excellent durability and damage/mortal-wound output due to the buffs on them, so they're difficult for most armies to shift, which is a problem, since Sayl throws them in your face, strung out across your army's front. 

These are all interesting points, and they bear further discussion.
 

17 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Thanks to Dryads, we can deploy [Alpha bunkering/Alpha blocking] tactics reasonably well, although maybe (emphasis on maybe) a little less effectively than others (...TBD). 

I'm not sure I can think of an army off hand that does the Alpha bunker more effectively than us; we get a free wood set up before deployment which provides more than a little area denial, we also have unmatched mobility in the form of T-revenants and Realmroot moves. For the most part, I'm not certain there a build with more a reliable and sustainable defense. Even Plaguebearers only just meet Dryads for durability and only at near max size. 

Alpha blocking is less of a worry, and really only an issue for armies that aren't capable of movement shenanigans. Sayal might be able to put a blocking line in front of your army, but if your entire army is capable of movement that ignores intervening models (either by "set-up" moves or flying) then it's really only proximity (3") for set-up that makes any real difference. Those type of plays are fairly easily circumvented provided you've had the foresight to build mobility into your lists. 

 

17 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Let's say you're playing Sylvaneth in Duality of Death, and you go up against Fyreslayers, Seraphon, Khorne, or a number of other factions that can deploy the above tactics effectively. Let's say you're running a zero-battalion list, and they have fewer drops. That means at the top of round 1, they could proceed to alpha-block both objectives with x30+ sized units, zoning you out from getting any of your heroes or behemoths within 3", while getting their own heroes or behemoths set up to start scoring.

At that point, you could be in for a long day. If you have a good amount of shooting, you could potentially shoot off their heroes before they score too many points. Sooner than later, though, you'll to have to deplete the blocking units to start scoring; and if it takes too long, you may not be able to catch up.

Let's run through that scenario.

Let's assume that the scenario is indeed duality of death, and we're playing a list that has a 30 man block at it's disposal, and it's managed to get the drop on you and has taken first turn. Let's go with something fairly resilient, say we're facing a unit of 30 plague bearers intent on camping the objective. That means 30 wounds, 5+ save, ignoring any failed save rolls on a 5+. Also -1 to hit in melee and -2 to hit vs shooting. I will refer to this as "Scenario X". 

So, here's the first problem. The objective is required to be set up 12" from the enemies deployment zone. Plaguebearers move 4" with a max run of 6". That's 10 inches of maximum movement, but will most likely land somewhere in the 7"-8" range. How does a unit that moves only 8" supposed to capture an objective that's 9"+ away on the first turn? Not to mention that it can only be captured by a hero. and even if it does get there with a lucky run roll, it won't close nearly enough distance to prevent us from coming down into the woods. Since Sayal can now only target SLAVES TO DARKNESS units, this army build doesn't have the mobility to be truly threatening in this way. 

So, Scenario X isn't as scary as it looks. Really the only way an army is going to be able to well and truly Alpha bunker here is by having a fast moving behemoth/hero (ideally both) onto the objective, with enough support that he won't get 1 shotted by whatever holy hell comes after him the next turn. That could be a Chaos lord on a Manticore, flying onto the objective, then Sayal deep striking 30 Chaos warriors on/around him to hold the objective. There is also the auric Runesmiters with a 30 man unit tunneling onto the objective.

I don't see the Sayal/Manticore/Chaos horde as being terribly points efficient. That set-up is 850 points and will likely need to all fit in a single battalion to ensure a first turn drop (adding to the cost). And then there's the question about what to do with the rest of the army. You can only burn Sayal's spell 1 per hero phase, and getting on top of the second objective presents just as much difficulty as the first. 

There's just isn't a whole lot in the game that moves that fast and in sufficient numbers to shut down both objectives simultaneously. (We can do it thanks to Acorn/Wyldwood Placement, but not much else is capable of transporting 4-5 units as effectively. Not to mention that one of those bunkers is being reliably forced to fight in the woods. So far, it's looks like the Fyreslayrers have the best possibility of truly "surrounding" the objective and forcing a confrontation. 
 

17 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

With all that in mind, a 1-drop sylvaneth list may remain the way to go, despite the considerable price.

Again, with all the difficulty involved of coordinating and executing alpha-drop take-over of both objectives, one which is guaranteed to have a wood on it, it's not super likely that plan will go off without a hitch. But rather than trying to avoid a scenario by paying the premium for the battalion points, it's worth bearing in mind that at some point, we will have to fight a horde camping an objective. Either because we got out-dropped, or both had one-drop armies and lost the roll off, or at some point mid game, your opponent was able to get a horde in right place at the right time.

What tools do we have for that?  

Consider Drycha. Squirmlings is pretty much guaranteed to wipe a 2/3 of whatever is in range and combined with Dwellers below you can probably be expected to wipe 1/2 a unit of 30 (which doesn't count combat or shooting).  For a unit of 30 1 wound models, those two abilities in succession (dwellers first, then squirmlings) put out ~27 mortal wounds. Even if the enemy saves 30% of that through damage mitigation saves (plague bearers, phoenix guard ect) that's still ~18 wounds. At 30 models strong, that unit of plaguebearers started the round at bravery 13, but will only be bravery 11 after losing ~10 wounds. If they roll anything other than a 1, that unit practically evaporates after battleshock. (3 models left on a 2+).

There are other solutions too. 2x3 sword hunters do about 10 wounds between them (even a -1 hit) and are plenty resilient to fight for a couple of rounds.  Supported, 2x3 sword hunters could clear a horde of plaguebearers in 2-3 combat rounds, which means by the bottom of turn 2. 

Then there's also the block. We've talked about using dreadwood as alpha strike variant, but the ability to redeploy before the game starts could be a very effective counter. Most of the moves required to bring a large unit to test able stipulate they must stay more than 9" from an enemy unit. Dreadwood gives free a re-deploy before the battle starts (which means it doesn't matter who gets the first turn. Thats a true alpha block). Durthu with Gnarled warrior and briarsheath sitting in a wyldwood means we technically control the objective before the game starts, not to mention the difficulty fraught with charging a full health, 3+ save Durthu handing out -2 to hit and killing monsters like flies. Plus if you roll 2 stratagems, it's fully possible to move another unit up toward the non-forest ridden objective further complicating any sneaky set-up moves. 

This is our game. We've playing with alpha bunkers since the Battletome came out in 2016 (or at least I have). We also have reasonable access to anti-horde units/builds that don't diminish our killing power elsewhere (Drycha is a perfect example, good at tearing through hordes, but also great at pouncing MSU lists.) 

Playtesting will bear this all this out, but I don't think we're as vulnerable to high mobility lists as it seems. 




 

[scrubyandwells]

5 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Here's a Gnarlroot list that looks pretty interesting, designed to fight within/around Wyldwoods:

Treelord Ancient 
 Gnarled Warrior
 Oaken Armour
 Regrowth
Drycha
 Verdant Blessing
Branchwych 
 Acorn of the Ages
 Throne of Vines
10 Dryads
5 Tree-Revenants
5 Tree-Revenants
3 Kurnoth Scythes
3 Kurnoth Scythes
3 Kurnoth Bows
20 Eternal Guard
Gnarlroot
Household
1990

Still unsure about only 3 KH Bows. It's too few to snipe with any reliability, but swapping 3 KH Scythes for 3 more Bows hurts the list's combat punch. Thanks to a conversation with a friend, also thinking about going zero Bows and swapping for 3 KH Swords, and maybe using them as an immediate threat that the opponent has to deal with. Concerned about facing lists, though, where long-range reach will be important, such as all the lists with support heroes.

[Kaylethia]

Now that warscrollbuilder has updated, I got around to making my Ironbark idea into an actual list. Without further ado:

Allegiance: Sylvaneth
Branchwych (80)
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages 
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell: The Reaping
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior 
- Artefact: Briarsheath 
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Auric Runesmiter (80)
- Runic Iron

10 x Dryads (100)
20 x Dryads (200)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (330)
- Pairs of Handaxes
Treelord (240)
Household (70)
Ironbark Wargrove (160)

Total: 2000/2000

I think the list has merit, one drop, Drycha the suicide bomber, 3 behemoths, 2 units of 20+, some shooting. I don't think I could fit Kurnoth Hunters in there without giving up too much elsewhere. I could drop 20 Dryads and TLA for 2x5 or 6 Hunters, but without Gnarlroot to bring Hunters back, I'm not sure they're worth it. What do you guys think? Anything that needs changing or could be better?

[Nico]

I think @Thomas Lyons Plaguetouched Warrior Spam is the alpha block list that has legs (although killing the hero before turn one or liking Sayl will change the game - 2 Grot Rock Lobbas could see to that even if he is out of line of sight. This is because of the 5++ and the bouncing back mortal wounds.

It's unlikely to become popular.

[Nico]

I would make sure that your list has sufficient -2 rend (at least 6 Scythes worth whether in Alarielle, Durthu or other form). Not least with Seraphon Filth on the March again.

[Aezeal]

8 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Yeah personally love the models but still finding it tough to figure out a tournament-viable build with a bunch of them...

I love the models but as known don't like them that much. I'd say however if you use them go for 5s to optimizer champion attacks and rerolls and mobility which is what they are around.

8 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Here's a Gnarlroot list that looks pretty interesting, designed to fight within/around Wyldwoods:

My problem is our tables get stuffed with large terrain pieces so for me it's less ideal to build a strat around this.

[Ian R]

is it correct that Drycha can choose her missile weapon before each game, Flitterfuries or Squirmlings, in a tournament situation?   I think I read something like this on this thread, apologies to author I can't find it now.   I am playing in Blackout this weekend and this choice would be great, but I want to be sure it is normal practice.  Thanks. 

[Nico]

Maybe re Drycha. Interestingly it wasn't a choice on Scrollbuilder. Logically she would have both weapons in her body and so choosing between them seems reasonable for each game.

[Kaylethia]

@Nico Luckily, my local meta currently doesn't have Seraphon, but even then, I thought about it and found it really hard to justify taking out TLA, even for Durthu. I'd lose a caster, command ability, another chance to get a wyldwood on the table in the early game, ten bodies and a resilient healer to gain -2 rend and possibly protection for my other heroes. Alarielle just won't fit, unless I drop Ironbark entirely. Hunters have a similar problem as Durthu, except I give up 20 Dryads instead of 10. I'll look over possible allies, but I may have to just run without a source of -2 rend. I was toying with the option of using Daith's Reaper, but it doesn't seem like a very good option on TLA for the low volume of attacks.

Thanks for your input, I have a lot to think over now.

[Aezeal]

19 minutes ago, Kaylethia said:

@Nico Luckily, my local meta currently doesn't have Seraphon, but even then, I thought about it and found it really hard to justify taking out TLA, even for Durthu. I'd lose a caster, command ability, another chance to get a wyldwood on the table in the early game, ten bodies and a resilient healer to gain -2 rend and possibly protection for my other heroes. Alarielle just won't fit, unless I drop Ironbark entirely. Hunters have a similar problem as Durthu, except I give up 20 Dryads instead of 10. I'll look over possible allies, but I may have to just run without a source of -2 rend. I was toying with the option of using Daith's Reaper, but it doesn't seem like a very good option on TLA for the low volume of attacks.

Thanks for your input, I have a lot to think over now.

If you can do mw with magic you could target rend immune guys with that.