Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[scrubyandwells]

33 minutes ago, Lhw said:

[Write up]

Sorry, Laurie, accidentally referred to you as Liam in that first response. Did I mention it's nearly 3am here? (..and was chatting earlier with Liam about his experience at the event.)

Here's another list I was looking at earlier. It's a bit unorthodox, and probably not reliable since it centers around Mr. Unreliable, but it could be a lot of fun playing for those 4+ Nav Realmroot rolls + 4+ charges, especially now that we can Nav Realmroot out of combat without retreating. 

Suspect the bodies are needed but could swap out one of the 10 Dryads for, say, a Waywatcher for extra shooting.

[Lhw]

Haha, don't worry about it. At 2 in morning I don't blame you! 

I like both lists. With the first list think the way you are going about it is right - make sure you've got more than one with Verdant Blessing.  18" is long, so one of the two should be in range. Something I did experience in the past was someone sniping of BW by taking first turn, doing me out of an Acorn because I couldn't go 1st (stupid Overlords.)

I really like the 2nd list. As you say, not sure how viable in practice, Durth being Durth. I'd probably swap one Dryads for Trevs, just cos I love Trevs. Makes a triumph more likely, which you could use on Durth to make him less swingy?
 

[DantePQ]

Many drops is my main concern as well with those kind of lists, less then woods as in first turn I can generate woods through Verdant's Blessing and TLA ability math wise I should set up another wood.  

That's why I am mainly testing my dreadwood army but got a problem with and any advice would be very appreciated. Initial list was :

Alarielle(with Regrowth), Wych (Acorn + verdant Blessing), 4x5 Spites, 30 Dryads, 6 Scythes Hunters 

but I find Dryads not that great in those numbers, I was thinking about dropping them to take Drycha (but I would need to cut Wych as well I'm 10 points short and give her or Alarielle verdant's blessing) and then I'm left with 70 points I can spend.  Drycha gives me great antihorde unit, works well with Spites plus another unit that can move up to 18'' first turn then charge if I roll for 2 effects. 

Option 2 is also to drop Dryads and take more Reventants - 2x10 units and 2x5 units to use them to control objectives then  I can keep Wych and  have 110 points spare to take

a) extra branchwych (But I don't see many reasons  but extra spells are nice and I  can give her Dwellers for some antihorde help) 

b) extra 5 Spites Reventants running 3 units of 10 and one unit of 5 

What do you think which options is the best ? Keep Dryads, take Drycha, take extra Revenants with or without extra branchwych (also worthy considering is that all option without dryads make Triumph more likely)

[Lhw]

Remember the Ancient's ability has been nerfed so it needs 3" from both models and scenery now. That's a lot harder than it sounds, with a 15" range. 

I agree that 30 dryads look better on paper than in reality. Hard to fit in to cover and battleshock becomes major issue. Something I think might be a good shout with Dreadwood is drop some/lots of the Spites in the wood, to bring down later in the game? That might suit the Drycha list too. I haven't played with Dreadwood much, so not sure I can give much more advice beyond that, I'm afraid! 

[Paul Buckler]

19 minutes ago, Lhw said:

Haha, don't worry about it. At 2 in morning I don't blame you! 

I like both lists. With the first list think the way you are going about it is right - make sure you've got more than one with Verdant Blessing.  18" is long, so one of the two should be in range. Something I did experience in the past was someone sniping of BW by taking first turn, doing me out of an Acorn because I couldn't go 1st (stupid Overlords.)

I really like the 2nd list. As you say, not sure how viable in practice, Durth being Durth. I'd probably swap one Dryads for Trevs, just cos I love Trevs. Makes a triumph more likely, which you could use on Durth to make him less swingy?
 

This was me  

Havng played Sylvaneth for 6 months before the overlords, facing a 1 drop battalion list or a list that I can out drop and go first is a no brainer.  If you don't have an acorn I am gonna kill your wood summoner as fast as I can, whilst putting stuff in the way of where you can drop useful woods.  The second is really really easy to do.  So you either need to have lots of ways to kill stuff fast and drop woods, have multiple ways to summon, or write a list which doesn't rely on teleporting.

I honestky donlt think we can go toe to toe with the hordes, so don;t even try.  Work ways to win the scenarios using movement and reducing numbers, rather than trying to compete in a war you can't win.  Honestly just playing games is gonna do you better than trying to rework an already solid list.  Play each scenario 20 times and you will have a significant advantage over someone playing it for the 3rd time.

My sylvaneth lost a unit of hunters and 10 dryads became revs,  think it still works well, and is probably the most competative list I own.

 

[Chris Tomlin]

@Lhw - Thanks for kind words re event and for sharing a thorough report. Always good to read. You'll be pleased to know I'll be dropping Drycha in the post to you on my lunch break today!

[Paul G]

51 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

 

b) extra 5 Spites Reventants running 3 units of 10 and one unit of 5 

Would be very interested to see some results of this! Units of 10 would obviously make the footprint for their abilities much larger, but quite matchup dependent I think.

 

[Dragon10]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

Ok, I've tested this army 

Alarielle + Verdant's Blessing

TLA + General + Oaken Armour + Regrowth + Gnarled Warrior

Drycha + Squirmlings + Dwellers 

2x5 Tree-Revs

20 Dryads

2x3 Kurnoths with Scythes

 

It wordked pretty well againt SCE and Nighthound, I like how tough it is to play against it. Also it gives many targets to Alarielle's ability along with TLA Command Ability it'squite tough. Also a lot of spellcasting with 5 spells a turn and 5 unbids. I'm not sure it's better then Dreadwood list I'm using but this list works nicely, I'm not sure how it will stack against armies like DoT with a lot of heavy shooting as I won't get 1st turn very often.  

Can I see your dreadwood list please

[WABBIT]

 

5 hours ago, mclargehuge said:

Thanks for that. Its how I have tried to use them most of the time but I think I get my timing wrong. As soon I teleport them, my opponent makes a beeline for them and wipes them out in a turn, leaving them having very little impact in the end. 5 wounds and a poor save is hard to look after. When I have had a chance to attack with them, they have done okay but never as well as I had hoped. 

I'll keep working at it. The rest of my list is good, they hold up well generally but I have just noticed that Tree-Revs haven't done as well as they have for others.

Timing is important sure but if your opponent is redirecting forces to deal with them they are placing a lot of value on what is a relatively cheap unit for you. That in itself is a win for you as those forces are not availble to threaten your main force or his unit(s) are pulled out of position. Force your opponent to make hard choices, that's where timing comes in.  If you want to redirect one of his support units to increase your main combat units chances then way pipe your revs in to threaten a key piece or objective and let them sweat as to which choice to make. If they keep,200pts of troops back to cover any raiding by tree revs that cost you 80pts it's a good trade. You don't have to kill a unit to defeat it, keeping it tied up or out of position is as good as killing it.

Revenants are disposable, play the game like chess and sacrifice pieces to ensure your best units get the best returns on investment like your ?queen, knights/hunters,  castles/tree lords and even your pawns/dryads. Think a couple of turns ahead plan for it. Of course it's easier to say all this than do it. That's why we play. 

[DantePQ]

Sure list I'm running right know 

Alarielle + Regrowth 

Branchwych + Acron of Ages, Verdant's Blessing

4x5 Spite-Revenants

30 Dryads

6 Scythes Hunters 

but I'm dropping Dryads for sure for extra 10 revenats and another branchwych or for Drycha. 

[Dragon10]

15 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Sure list I'm running right know 

Alarielle + Regrowth 

Branchwych + Acron of Ages, Verdant's Blessing

4x5 Spite-Revenants

30 Dryads

6 Scythes Hunters 

but I'm dropping Dryads for sure for extra 10 revenats and another branchwych or for Drycha. 

Interesting list, and this is a one drop list right ?

[DantePQ]

yep it's one drop as I got Dreadwood and Outcasts battalions in it. 

[Dragon10]

Do you know if the ability in heartwood wargrove which replaces dead units with full units, do you need points in reserve to pay for these units again?

doesnt seem worth it if it does .

[WABBIT]

@Dragon10  Yes I believe so which is why no one uses it. It's a broken rule to be honest I was hoping Gw would fix summoning and replacement abilities and spells  in GHB2017.? I mean why would anyone deliberately withhold big chunks of their army and subject them to so many restricting rules on how to bring them on? It's works as a handicap to good players but nothing else. They can only be used in open and narrative play games really. I was thinking of just agreeing with my friends that all armies have 500pts reinforcement points whether you use them or not. Or all points invested in reinforcement are doubled. 

[Dragon10]

Yeah just seems strange, I can understand with summoning but with a rule like this that already costs a fair bit of points just doesn't make sense for me, plus a unit has to die before it is beneficial. I think GW have it wrong, should be a different rule then summoning.

[Jimbo]

Or perhaps the battalion was made for open and/or narrative play!?! Matched play isn't the the only way to go ?

Jimbo

[ppetford]

Those battalions are 100% intended for games where opponents don't use matched play points. So, it's not for (most?) people but it's definitely cool it's an option for people who enjoy those ways of playing.

Its GW catering to all players, not just matched play enthusiasts ?

Snap @Jimbo

[ppetford]

Here's the list for my first game with Sylvaneth later this week against a murder host list at Dorset Dogger HQ (also my first game playing the new scenarios). Pretty excited to give it a go after playing a mixed Aelf army up until this point.

Gnarlroot 250pts

Drycha 280pts
Ancient 300pts
B-Wych 80pts
Loremaster 100pts
Knight-Venator 120pts
Dryads x 30 270pts
T-Revs x 5 80pts
S-Rev x 5 80pts
Schythe Hunters 220pts
Scythe Hunters 220pts

2000pts

[WABBIT]

20 minutes ago, ppetford said:

Those battalions are 100% intended for games where opponents don't use matched play points. So, it's not for (most?) people but it's definitely cool it's an option for people who enjoy those ways of playing.

Its GW catering to all players, not just matched play enthusiasts ?

Snap @Jimbo

Yes I agree but it would be nice to have some wording to support that because reinforcement point rules for summoning spells and abilities are clearly not advantageous in Matched play. I only say that because some players I know will argue its in the rules so I cannot use summoning without paying reinforcement tax and that just makes the game unbalanced and unfun to play. I don't have a large pool of players to play with so I cant just avoid them. Plus I like em they are my mates  If their armies had summoning spells and abilities I think they may be more amenable but they don't.

[ppetford]

I agree that it would be really cool for the summoning abilities Sylvaneth have to be viable in matched play. Some house ruling would be nice and totally see how this can be tricky (not having any suggestions at all myself!)

Summoning in games I've played with other armies seem to work well when viewed as an alternative deployment method. It works because you don't have things like random numbers being summoned (Dryads) or recycling units lost earlier in the game (some battalions mentioned earlier). The summoning rules for Sylvaneth being written for non-pointed games just flat out makes them wonky in pointed games. It is a shame, but it clearly was entirely intended by the rule writers.

[Lhw]

46 minutes ago, ppetford said:

Here's the list for my first game with Sylvaneth later this week against a murder host list at Dorset Dogger HQ (also my first game playing the new scenarios). Pretty excited to give it a go after playing a mixed Aelf army up until this point.

Gnarlroot 250pts

Drycha 280pts
Ancient 300pts
B-Wych 80pts
Loremaster 100pts
Knight-Venator 120pts
Dryads x 30 270pts
T-Revs x 5 80pts
S-Rev x 5 80pts
Schythe Hunters 220pts
Scythe Hunters 220pts

2000pts

I like this list mate. Who were you thinking about putting the Loremasters spell on? Not an obvious combat single model to put it on, really. 

[Aezeal]

4 minutes ago, Lhw said:

I like this list mate. Who were you thinking about putting the Loremasters spell on? Not an obvious combat single model to put it on, really. 

Drycha is a better target then most.. And tla benefits in shooting and melee and an extra hit there can be huge.

[Lhw]

True, but neither is as good with it as Durths or Alarielle.

[Aezeal]

1 minute ago, Lhw said:

True, but neither is as good with it as Durths or Alarielle.

Hell that is a nasty comparison... nearly nothing is as good as those 2. But amongst armies that can put a loremaster on the table they are still ranking high in the lists overall I'd say.

[Lhw]

Fair point. I was just kind of wondering whether it would make more sense to consider other Order wizards, as a result. Beast battlemage could help the Scythes, or something similar.