AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[kenshin620]

Interesting that rather than a banshee scream ability, she just straight up has a shooting attack. Would be useful against other pesky Bravery 10 things.

150pts for a wizard and a distraction unit doesn't seem too bad. In fact other than giving someone a Midnight Tome, isn't the Briar Queen technically the cheapest wizard now for Nighthaunt? (technically, if you assume you pay like 120pts for her 30pts for the chainrasps or something)

Edited September 22, 2018 by kenshin620

[Nevar]

Chainrasps are normally 8 pts a model, so her retinue is 48pts of her cost.  The Thorns are also better than stock standard Chainrasps stats wise thanks to the built in rerolling 1's.

That makes the Queeny is a 102 pt wizard with a shooting attack and a quasi Spectral Shackles spell and access to other spells like Soul Cage etc.

She is also a Hero and can pass out Deathless Spirits saves to our army as per all heroes.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Nevar

[Neck-Romantic]

Good points.

Also since her vortex is an aoe she can have a use in larger games too if you plonk it down in the center of a phalanx.

Question; would either her ability or shackles work on a unit's already reduced speed? Say your shackes snare a 12" move unit, bringing it down to 6"...would her spell then roll according to the reduced speed to bring it to 3? Or be rolling against the original 12?

Edited September 22, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Tropical Ghost General]

2 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Something here Im not seeing?

Her scream attack isn't based on bravery, which considering so much has high bravery, this new scream is consistent and the -3 rend means that you can bypass so much, including bloody bastiliodons. If you add a VL you can get an extra attack as well. I won't as I'm a purest and don't take allies ?. 

Her spell is situational but we are a fast army. If you think of armies like Khorne, taking 2"-3" off them is really useful as it's all units in a 12" bubble that can be effected. If you target it at supporting characters it will slow down that entire castle, as the core units will need to slow down to let the hero keep pace. And as someone else mentioned it will stack with shackles, so halve your 5"-6" move, then halve it again ?. 

The 3" range on her melee weapon means that she can keep out of harms way while attacking, being screened by the rasps. And the -2 rend and D3 damage means that she can be taking out smaller heroes relatively easily, especially when combined with her shooting attack. 

The unit is so small that there is no point bringing along other heroes to buff them up. They might benefit tagging along with a small 10 unit of rasps to add as additional screening or if you want extra longevity have them tag along with a big unit of rasps and a torment and/or GoS.

For the points costs they are a decent choice because they fulfill a really good role of being able to consistently clear units off objectives or by taking out smaller supporting heroes with ease, and doing that while slowing down your opponent. You can even use them as a sacrifice unit to take your opponent's big nasty gribbly down a few rungs on their degrading chart on their warscroll, as there isn't much that can ignore -3 and -2 rend, and taking 3-6 wounds off big nasties can make a big difference to games. 

[Neck-Romantic]

^ question for those better at rules-ing

[kenshin620]

Yea I think thats a good description, they're a decent choice. Not a must have, but I think this at least isn't a weird throw away rule, and can actually be used by a proper Death Allegiance!

Seriously what were they thinking with that Sepulchral Guard FAQ! They mind as well have printed "use these models as grave guard/skeleton warrior proxies"

 

In comparison I am not sure how much use the SCE rules will be used. 300 whopping points in an already point strapped army, for 3 models (and the evocators still need to have 2 models to count as a wizard), and they're Hammers of Sigmar too. I think they may be firmly in "use as model variety" territory unless I missed something.

[Tropical Ghost General]

5 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Seriously what were they thinking with that Sepulchral Guard FAQ

I know. WTF. Someone was having a bad day when that decision was made, possibly by someone who just had their ass handed to them by a LoN player and they wanted to spite them by making them unusable ?.

[Guardian]

Does the briar queen spell affect charges and runs?

[Tropical Ghost General]

Probably not. As it states movement characteristics, not movement. If it did then it would be a bit too good/OP.

It would effect how far they run though as it's D6 + movement characteristic, so with the spell it would be D6 + 1/2 movement characteristic. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Tropical Ghost General

[Neck-Romantic]

Wondering if you can shackle high-move units then use their reduced speed to vortex them again, or if it would use their original speed

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Neck-Romantic if you used the vortex spell and shackles as a combo then it would work on the modified movement.

So cast shackles on an 8" unit. Movement is reduced to 4". Then cast the vortex spell, movement is currently 50% of 8", so it then becomes 50% of that 50%, making the movement 2".

Now (I may be wrong on this so happy to be corrected) if the target unit has any bonuses to their movement such as plus 2" or plus 5", then that gets added after the effects of the spell(s).

So if an 8" movement unit using cogs was effected by vortex and shackles, they would have a 2" base move +2" from cogs. 

[TheWolfLord]

43 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Wondering if you can shackle high-move units then use their reduced speed to vortex them again, or if it would use their original speed

The Shackles halve the movement characteristic and the Vortex tests against their movement characteristic so yes it will work on even fast units.

Run a Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass alongside the Briar Queen and you can really shut down an Assault heavy force. Half movement and only 1D6 charges. 

Shes very interesting and maybe there’s some good tactics using her.

[Vasshpit]

2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Seriously what were they thinking with that Sepulchral Guard FAQ! They mind as well have printed "use these models as grave guard/skeleton warrior 

I apparently missed something?....

[Neck-Romantic]

Yeah I was thinking with shackles and Queenie you could do a pretty effective flanking force, try to practically root their Vanguard or flank and come at them from the other side...

If all else fails she is a nice Tomb Banshee substitute and the rasps can just be rank and file.

I was hoping for a Terrorgeist boosted banshee scream on something in the nighthaunt release, like a mourngul variant or special character... or even a regular 2d6 banshee scream with reroll but no avail!

Edited September 22, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[kenshin620]

59 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

I apparently missed something?....

 

Sorry for going off the NH topic, but this (and wow they did even say "use them as skeletons")

 

 

Quote

 

Q: Can the Sepulchral Guard be taken in a Legion of

Nagash army?

A: No, but you should feel free to add the models to

units of Skeleton Warriors.

 

 

 

So you can only use the Sepulchral Guard actual rules in a GA Death army.

 

At well at least the new warband is an actual Allegiance unit.

Edited September 22, 2018 by kenshin620

[Adamcbutton]

Interesting that the Thorns of the Briar Queen don’t have the summonable keyword so presumably can’t be resurrected by a Guardian of Souls. 

[Neck-Romantic]

Beleive you can still rez them with a STorment though

[Tropical Ghost General]

11 minutes ago, Adamcbutton said:

Thorns of the Briar Queen don’t have the summonable keyword 

Good spot. Hadn't noticed that. Can torment and RoTS still work? 

[TheWolfLord]

39 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Good spot. Hadn't noticed that. Can torment and RoTS still work? 

Yes the Torment can work on characters so these aren’t restricted. RoTS will work too but to be honest they’d be objective campers or roadblocks for me so I wouldn’t waste any heals on them.

[Tropical Ghost General]

I agree @TheWolfLord I won't be building an army around them. But it's good to get ideas on how to revive them, especially when your battletome is at home and you're stuck at work ?

[Neck-Romantic]

Might be situations where they are the only things in range/hurt for torment heals *shrug*

Also; does anyone have access to the planar relics? I was thinking of trying to stack bravery debuffs in a list

Edited September 22, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Tropical Ghost General]

16 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

planar relics? 

What's this planar stuff? 

[Neck-Romantic]

The realms. Planes realms dimensions whatevah

Edited September 22, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Neck-Romantic got it. I've had a look through when the ghost book was released and there isn't anything that gives minus bravery. One artefact gives bonus to bravery.

If you want to bravery bomb with ghosts you need to either ally in Soulblight blood knights and use their banner or use endless spells that cause minus bravery (jaws, sun, etc...) 

[Neck-Romantic]

Hmmm I woulda thought thered be at least one relic that debuffed... ah well