Honk Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 Just read the "How to AoS 3.0" for FEC on FB... Was about to call a crusade on that guy 🤮 Here are our big tricks for 3.0: GkoTg/Zd............... sure, they enjoy the new abilities, like every big hero-Monster Varghulf Muster with Rally.................. so what? with all the msu units, hoping for a 6? Falyers unleash hell.............. First I though yeah cool, that´ll be awesome, but then Maybe I´m stupid or didn´t get the rules, but how should Flayers who get charged use the "Unleash Hell" CA? Enemies will be within 3" and the Redeploy CA will also be used in the Charge Phase and so you couldn´t use Redeploy and Unleash Hell n one unit of Flayers that are "at the forefront" and getting charged. Somehow this all felt a bit strange for me. I think we might need to change the whole approach to stay relevant outside of friendly narrative play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 So it has come to my attention that its not a bad move to use the new command ability Unleash Hell when it comes to crypt flayers. Shooting into units that charged you? With an autohitting attack that gets around the -1 drawback of the command ability? Sign me UP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Honk said: Just read the "How to AoS 3.0" for FEC on FB... Was about to call a crusade on that guy 🤮 Here are our big tricks for 3.0: GkoTg/Zd............... sure, they enjoy the new abilities, like every big hero-Monster Varghulf Muster with Rally.................. so what? with all the msu units, hoping for a 6? Falyers unleash hell.............. First I though yeah cool, that´ll be awesome, but then Maybe I´m stupid or didn´t get the rules, but how should Flayers who get charged use the "Unleash Hell" CA? Enemies will be within 3" and the Redeploy CA will also be used in the Charge Phase and so you couldn´t use Redeploy and Unleash Hell n one unit of Flayers that are "at the forefront" and getting charged. Somehow this all felt a bit strange for me. I think we might need to change the whole approach to stay relevant outside of friendly narrative play Wait you can redeploy mid charge phase? What ****** is that? Edit: Okay its a d6” run on the enemy turn. Not a full blink to the other side of the board. Phew. Edited June 16, 2021 by KibaWildFang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svalack Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 They were implying you can use redeploy for objective/tactical play or unleash hell to be more aggressive not both on the same turn. These articles so far have been pretty poor regardless. All out attack would never be used over feeding frenzy on a gkotg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Svalack said: All out attack would never be used over feeding frenzy on a gkotg. This. While I enjoy the Death Scream/Unleash Hell combo, who in their right mind is not just gonna fish for more 6s on a Frenzy? If any of my units are Frenzying a turn, its the gkotg. Also, has the jury decided if flayers are better in squads of 6, or MSU now? Edited June 16, 2021 by KibaWildFang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 3 hours ago, KibaWildFang said: the jury decided Really can’t tell… I think their output will be lacking 🤔 on the other side the opponent is kinda forced to MSU too 🧐 I almost think unleash hell could be funny, if the opponent charges into 10 ghoul and 6 flayers (Tg or even Zd) wait behind that screen… they all don’t roll to hit 😇 but that’s a very unwieldy one trick pony but right now my feelings are a bit too salty to see options. Rules also say that core&warscroll battalions are optional and the battlepacks will determine what battleplans are used in what realm and what type of battalion max be used. anybody has any information if warscroll battalions are really out of matched play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Honk said: anybody has any information if warscroll battalions are really out of matched play? Unfortunately its confirmed that warscroll battalions and matched play are no longer meshing. You can do them in narrative/open play, and I sorely hope they can be used in PtG, but for matched, no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, KibaWildFang said: Unfortunately its confirmed I will destroy my opponent with the undying hordes of the morgaunt court… regent with 3 ghast courtiers and a terrorgheist. Then 3x20 ghouls, 3x10 ghouls (maybe another Tg instead) and the barricades… 🥳👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Honk said: I will destroy my opponent with the undying hordes of the morgaunt court… regent with 3 ghast courtiers and a terrorgheist. Then 3x20 ghouls, 3x10 ghouls (maybe another Tg instead) and the barricades… 🥳👍 So a board control type of army? Also if you can spare the points you should totally go for the Gheist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 So, I sort of calculated the projected points change on the models (about 15% if sources are to be believed), and I came up with a list I think I’m gonna pilot for the start of AoS3. Warlord Battalion (extra enhancement, that one extra cp ability), Blisterskin Archregent (Hellish Orator, the Dermal Robe, Deranged Transformation) GKoRTG (Gruesome Bite, Spectral Host) Varghulf (Eye of Hysh) 6 Flayers, 20 Ghouls, 20 Ghouls Corpsemare Stampede Free Bone Chair Blisterskin was chosen mainly to play with the redeploy strat in the new edition, but having Flayers battleline and moving 2” extra are really nice. Hellish Orator and Eye of Hysh aren’t bad either. Speaking of the +2 inches... Allegiance Abilities don’t apply to Endless Spells do they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svalack Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I don't think i will pay for more than min size ghouls unless you can take a big block(where they will be harder to remove and serve a purpose). I'm hoping they don't go up in points cos they were already not particularly cheap at 100 per 10 with their current statline. I'm also unsure if varghulfs are worth including in the starting list now - with no battalion and if not trying smashbat, it might be better to take a 2nd archregeant and summon them in for free(though only being able to summon one a turn is a problem vs shooty/alpha lists) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Svalack said: I don't think i will pay for more than min size ghouls unless you can take a big block(where they will be harder to remove and serve a purpose). I'm hoping they don't go up in points cos they were already not particularly cheap at 100 per 10 with their current statline. I'm also unsure if varghulfs are worth including in the starting list now - with no battalion and if not trying smashbat, it might be better to take a 2nd archregeant and summon them in for free(though only being able to summon one a turn is a problem vs shooty/alpha lists) To be fair, even last edition I saw tournament lists make use out of 20 ghouls. A guy in my local meta who is really good with all things Death prefers them in squads of 20. I do agree, Varghulfs have lost a lot of power with Mordants being gone, but I also never really liked the idea of them coming in from a board edge where they aren’t needed. If I want to keep the core battalion with a second sub-commander, I may go Feast Day and take an Infernal General. Not sure though. I’m trying to avoid taking a second archregent for a few reasons. The first is purely an aesthetic choice, I want to have one leading the army, having two felt kind of weird lorewise. The second is as you said, they can’t both summon in one turn. I already have intentions of having the first archregent sit on the throne for the first turn, I don’t need a second doing nothing for 2 turns. Though I suppose the Throne isn’t as mandatory as it was before. I could cut the Varg, cut one brick of ghouls and add in 6 more flayers. Or I could cut both ghouls down to 10 and try to squeeze in another mounted King. Ooh, I could instead go double 6-units of flayers, one brick of 30 ghouls and opt to take a cheap Ghast Courtier to keep the battalion bonus... and hope there’s enough points leftover to worm in Stampede. Edited June 17, 2021 by KibaWildFang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Okay so, thought up an idea, like I usually do. This is the list I *hope* I’ll end up having enough points for. First thing’s first, its Blisterskin Warlord Battalion. Leaders are Regent (Hellish Orator, Dermal Robe, Deranged Transformation), GKoRTG (Gruesome Bite, Spectral Host, Eye of Hysh) and a Ghast Courtier. Battleline are 2 units of 6 flayers and a brick of 30 ghouls. (All reinforcement slots filled). Corpsemare, Throne. The Ghast is there to buff the ghouls, but more importantly be the last sub-commander for the battalion. Blisterskin for battleline flayers, redeploy strat and of course movement. Dermal Robe is to help cast Corpsemare easier. Regent probably will summon 20 more ghouls. Maybe a Varghulf once in a blue moon. I really like flayers, so this list feels pretty nice. I really, really hope there’s enough points here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 We got our points! I think its fairly balanced. Not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docofallplagues Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 47 minutes ago, KibaWildFang said: We got our points! I think its fairly balanced. Not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be! Pretty excited actually, some armies seem to have been truly shafted by the points changes but FEC has barely changed in many instances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 In other news, I finally got my charnel throne completed! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voand Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Whipped up a quick and dirty idea to think about given the new points values and trying to lean hard into the idea of hero hammer, monster mash, the new battalions etc with 3.0s themes. It's probably terrible because I'm terrible but I wanted to see what a list like this could look like/fit and thought I'd share for fun. Gristlegore Command Entourage battalion (1 free command point, 1 free enhancement) Archregent Archregent Ghoul King on TG Ghoul King on ZD Royal TG 10 Ghouls 10 Ghouls 3 Crypt Horrors 2000 exactly. Lots of monstrous actions, lots of summons, not much worrying about the new coherency rules. Ludicrously top heavy. Some flexibility with all the summons though and I imagine it spitting out another 40 ghouls, a Varg, and 3 Flayers most games. Feel free to comment and/or mock, just spitballing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Voand said: Feel free to… mock Ridiculous, foolish… preposterous this is the most uninspired thing I ever had to see. I hope you have reached your low, because I fear for all that is sacred, if that wasn’t the worst you can offer. With hero and monster actions, the big boiz are probably pretty nasty to deal with in conjunction with the distraction carnifex/-gheist. while the ghouls are camping the objectives. only thing is the summoning, only one regen hero 🤔 maybe that’s all you‘ll need, but maybe 2x varg, only 20ghouls and 3knights leaves all units a bit more durable … and for summoned in units, the ghoul block+flayers could make a nice „ unleash hell“ moment, when your opponent charges in… no, gotta be outside of 3“, but still varg/ghouls/knights is a respectable force coming in from nowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voand Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Yes exactly, you're a little unpredictable with what you poop out on your first round of summons and you have multiple giant threats so depending what goes down you can somewhat adjust. Unfortunately I realized the regents can't both summon the same turn since it's the same CA but you can do 20 ghouls, Varg, Flayers turn 1 and make a judgement call of another 20 ghouls or a second Varg or maybe in niche cases something else turn 2. I'm not invested in it but I'll hopefully test it and it seems fun and fitting for an edition all about heroes and monsters. Getting all those monstrous actions seems like it'll feel good, hopefully I can try it soon. Assuming someone doesn't post a clearly better list or make an obvious correction/upgrade to mine that I'll shamelessly copy before my first game of the new edition 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 7 hours ago, Voand said: Command Entourage battalion (1 free command point, 1 free enhancement) If I was reading correctly, that one lets you choose either or. The Warlord battalion gets you both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 3:45 AM, Svalack said: I'm also unsure if varghulfs are worth including in the starting list now - with no battalion and if not trying smashbat, it might be better to take a 2nd archregeant and summon them in for free(though only being able to summon one a turn is a problem vs shooty/alpha lists) I’ve been doing thinking on this, and I feel that in Blisterskin with Lord of the Burning Skies, it can actually be pretty potent, strategically. Maybe not Smashbat levels of punchy, but even without relics it can hold its own better than the other courtiers. With the Blisterskin CA it can be wherever it really needs to be, either grabbing an objective, going to support flayers/ghouls, or getting out of a combat that suddenly turned unfavorable. True, if it blinks over to flayers or ghouls it has to wait a turn to muster, but its closer than where it was before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KibaWildFang Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) I was talking to Honk about this, but I wanna get more input so I’ll put it here, too... So I have two lists I can make... Both have the same leader lineup of Archregent, GKoRTG, Varghulf. Both have throne and corpsemare. The difference is... One has 6 flayers/6 flayers/30 ghouls the other is 6 flayers/20 ghouls/20 ghouls with enough points leftover for a Zombie Dragon. which do you think is more potent? Is it worth losing one squad of 6 flayers and divvying up the ghouls into 2 units of 20 instead of 1 unit of 30 just for a non-mounted Zombie Dragon? Or is the second monster worth it? Edited June 18, 2021 by KibaWildFang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirtripper Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) So assume you're running Gristlegore, you have two Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheist (GKoTG) and one has Savage Strike. It's your turn, and you charge both into your opponent's unit that has no strike first/strike last effects. According to the new rules regarding Strike First, you would get to fight first with the Savage Strike GKoTG. After Strike First, it moves to "units without strike-first/strike last effects." Question: Who gets to activate first in that step? You since it's your turn or your opponent? Edited June 18, 2021 by Shirtripper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidsteel Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I believe the active player goes first in all sub phases, and your opponent alternates with you. Its an interesting change, as previously the active player got to go first with everything. It also means you no longer get around abilities such as Syars Goading Arrogance, unfortunately, so a buff to that already ridiculously strong trait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docofallplagues Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 13 hours ago, Shirtripper said: So assume you're running Gristlegore, you have two Ghoul Kings on Terrorgheist (GKoTG) and one has Savage Strike. It's your turn, and you charge both into your opponent's unit that has no strike first/strike last effects. According to the new rules regarding Strike First, you would get to fight first with the Savage Strike GKoTG. After Strike First, it moves to "units without strike-first/strike last effects." Question: Who gets to activate first in that step? You since it's your turn or your opponent? I feel like it's intended as a rule to allow you to fight with two units in a row if you charged, so it'll be savage strike attacks, then the regular GKoTG, then the opponent picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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