AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion

[Mayple]

2 minutes ago, Pitloze said:

The warscroll builder had an really nasty tease. It let you put Ironblasters in units. Which made them much better as it would reduce drops, lets you buff an entire unit with spells or butcher ability. It also made them much better allies for BCR.

Haha! Yeah, I noticed that too. That would have made them much better, actually, just because it'd allow us to work around the 4/4 war machine unit restriction. Ah well

[James S]

Hey guys. Did an exercise that one of my buddies asked me give a go. It also coincides with the Honest Wargamer's recent announcement about sharing lists with write ups. Give it a read and let me know how you feel about it. Always looking for some feedback. Much appreciated!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M7mnHV_Kf9bxm3-t51F63V6_VYVyOLaT/view

[PlasticCraic]

Excellent write up @James S, I love it!

Very entertaining and you also make some great points.  I totally agree that the humble Grot is massively important to the army.  And those little memory joggers are spot on, there's been so many times when I've forgotten to make an extra guy run away with the banner, or to lay a trap with the Grots!

I agree with what you're saying about late game too, I've had those games where it's close until it isn't.  Getting stuck in a grind, and you're OK until they put 300 points of free stuff on the table.  

One thing that occured to me reading it was that in a niche case, you might even Bully your own Tyrant, if you absolutely must one-shot something.  To trigger the second additional attack from Might is Right.

Obviously not one you'll do regularly, but worth having up your sleeve for that once-a-year moment!

[Kramer]

16 hours ago, Mayple said:

@Baron Wastelands

Compare it's current iteration to the moonclan grots Squig Gobba (combat capable artillery) for the same cost, Stormcast ballista (more tanky, better damage potential) for less cost, or the Ironweld arsenal cannon (double the amount of shots, identical hit/wound/rend/damage profile, greater range I think?) for same cost.

It would not be unreasonable to double the number of shots on the gutbuster cannon, or even make it a random shot value. It would simply make it worth it's current points. 

It being slightly survivable does not make it too cheap if that were to happen. It is still garbage in close combat, and too slow and unreliable to serve as a mobile artillery piece. 

It would make it a better mobile cannon than the Kahadron Overlords equivalent, the gunhauler.

i think it should be a bit overpriced as you’re comparing it with artillery from specified ranged faction, stormcast excluded. That road leads to all factions being roughly the same. It offers something unique in the faction, should be priced like that. Buuut, the current point cost might be a bit much  

[Charlo]

I suppose the Ironblaster needs to decide on what it is. Is it:

• A) A massive cannon for the Gutbusters offering Fire Support to deal with hordes
• B) A "chariot" equivalent, shooting as it goes and then hitting hard in combat

Personally, I think the Chariot idea is better for it.  In which case it's combat potential needs to be greatly upped. Maybe even give it bonuses to shoot at point blank range (e.g. in combat!) and have either some rend or more attacks.

Squads would be AWESOME too.

[rattila]

15 minutes ago, Charlo said:

I suppose the Ironblaster needs to decide on what it is. Is it:

• A) A massive cannon for the Gutbusters offering Fire Support to deal with hordes
• B) A "chariot" equivalent, shooting as it goes and then hitting hard in combat

Personally, I think the Chariot idea is better for it.  In which case it's combat potential needs to be greatly upped. Maybe even give it bonuses to shoot at point blank range (e.g. in combat!) and have either some rend or more attacks.

Squads would be AWESOME too.

Totally agreed! The ironblaster should be something unreliable from afar but ultra-deadly if shot close to the target (so like 6+ to hit at 24+ ft, 5+ to hit from 18+ ft, 4+ to hit from 12+ ft, 3+ to hit from 6+ ft and 2+ to hit within 6 inches).

And of course do more dmg in combat.

That would be hilariously fun to have a big cannon but to decide to shot it point blank ^^ suits well the ogor nature!

[Charlo]

Exactly!

I want Ogors to get a "Scrap Pile(s)" terrain piece too (as lets face it, they will seldom get new models....) that can buff nearby units or maybe appear next to units for Ogors to use and buff themselves.

Give extra save/ rend/ hits

[James S]

@PlasticCraic

"One  t hing that occured to me reading it was that in a niche case, you might even B ully your own Tyrant, if you absolutely must one-shot something.  To trigger the second additional attack from Might is Right."

Oh man! Never thought of it. Definitely doable for that suicide role. That is great dude! Thank you for sharing.

[Charlo]

16 minutes ago, James S said:

@PlasticCraic

"One  t hing that occured to me reading it was that in a niche case, you might even B ully your own Tyrant, if you absolutely must one-shot something.  To trigger the second additional attack from Might is Right."

Oh man! Never thought of it. Definitely doable for that suicide role. That is great dude! Thank you for sharing.

For the bamboozled... Whats the interaction here that makes it so good?

[James S]

10 minutes ago, Charlo said:

For the bamboozled... Whats the interaction here that makes it so good?

Hey bud. Wild Fury command trait gives the Tyrant an extra attack. If he takes 3 wounds, he gets another attack. It's just a sneaky way to help trigger the 5th attack dice on the Gutgouger Tyrant.

I had been using Damned terrain this whole time. Lol.

Edited November 19, 2018 by James S

[Baron Wastelands]

4 hours ago, Charlo said:

 Maybe even give it bonuses to shoot at point blank range (e.g. in combat!) and have either some rend or more attacks.

It used to have a short ranged grapeshot, so it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch. I can certainly see chariot with short range blast, but I think that’s a longer term solution!

 

3 hours ago, James S said:

@PlasticCraic

"One  t hing that occured to me reading it was that in a niche case, you might even B ully your own Tyrant, if you absolutely must one-shot something.  To trigger the second additional attack from Might is Right."

Oh man! Never thought of it. Definitely doable for that suicide role. That is great dude! Thank you for sharing.

 

All the more reason to run a spare tyrant, eh? 😉

[Charlo]

4 hours ago, James S said:

Hey bud. Wild Fury command trait gives the Tyrant an extra attack. If he takes 3 wounds, he gets another attack. It's just a sneaky way to help trigger the 5th attack dice on the Gutgouger Tyrant.

I had been using Damned terrain this whole time. Lol.

Oooo  nice. That's pretty gnarly then.

[James S]

3 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

All the more reason to run a spare tyrant, eh? 😉

How about 4 spare Tyrants. Lol. Pete started a topic on the FB group about running extra Tyrants and I couldn't stop list building and thinking of possibilities. So many Big Names, 10 pistol shots, and rend for days.

Im hoping to try this list. Gonna take a quick break from my tournament list so I can see if there is any gas in the tank. Loads of rend and so many targets to deal with. Just not sure if it's enough. 

[Mayple]

52 minutes ago, James S said:

How about 4 spare Tyrants. Lol. Pete started a topic on the FB group about running extra Tyrants and I couldn't stop list building and thinking of possibilities. So many Big Names, 10 pistol shots, and rend for days.

Im hoping to try this list. Gonna take a quick break from my tournament list so I can see if there is any gas in the tank. Loads of rend and so many targets to deal with. Just not sure if it's enough. 

I think that could be quite strong! You've got more than enough threatening units to keep your grots alive (which sounds backwards, but bear with me) as they will be a small priority target for shooting, which will maintain your ability to capture objectives well into round 3 and 4. All the separate units allows you to push an offense accross several fronts without losing your strength - and woe the opponent that takes you head on in a single focused flank. 

If anything, I wonder if you would be able to squeeze a gorger or two in there, perhaps in place of a tyrant (Four are a force to be reckoned with already) - just to allow yourself to open up an opponent's line further by messing up his deployment by virtue of being able to pop up behind him. That would go a long way to prevent things to freely tarpit you (as it is far easier to work out a defensive/offensive strategy against one direction, and something different altoghether to also have to account for ones flanks)

Just a thought

Edited November 20, 2018 by Mayple

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah I agree, it is mainly just a fun conversation but some of the armies (including James's here) don't look half bad!

As James says, all those Big Names!  And even the shooting, with 5 Tyrants you're up to 10 attacks with the Pistols, all with rend and D3 damage each.  At that point it's going beyond a bit of lucky chip damage to something more reliable.

The "Gutbusters AOS" FB group is awesome by the way, for anyone on this thread who is not involved I suggest you join 

[Mayple]

22 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah I agree, it is mainly just a fun conversation but some of the armies (including James's here) don't look half bad!

As James says, all those Big Names!  And even the shooting, with 5 Tyrants you're up to 10 attacks with the Pistols, all with rend and D3 damage each.  At that point it's going beyond a bit of lucky chip damage to something more reliable.

The "Gutbusters AOS" FB group is awesome by the way, for anyone on this thread who is not involved I suggest you join 

I'm under the mindset that many of the armies without a battletome are actually far better than we give them credit for  I'm happy to see this thread starting to churn out things that, as you say, don't look half bad at all! I have quite a bit of faith in @James S' latest one. My gut (hah) tells me that it is very close to being able to go out there and brawl with the best of them. Sure, it'd probably die horribly to a double magma dragon list specifically, but no list is without it's counters
 

The shooting really solidifies it's position. 8-10 shots with that power turns it into almost a pseudo-shooting army. Shotgun range.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the FB group. Went ahead and sent a join request.

[Charlo]

5 Tyrants is utterly hilarious and exactly the type of Hero-Hammer you need.

Just a huge shame they can't get more than one Artefact 😢

[sorokyl]

Hey guys wanted to share my WIP gutgouger tyrant.  I didn't like the idea of using a normal ogor, wanted a wide stance, something that stood out from the rank and file.  Had a maneater from an eBay lot that I didn't care for (only had 2 maneaters anyway), so used it.   Gargant hacker I think is a great gutgouger but I wanted to match the Bragg weapon a little closer so I took some bits from the thunderusk it and made this.   May put some tiny loop bits at the ends of the chain to bring it together more. Will probably use a rock on the base to support it too.  What do you guys think?  Are the guns too much? I gave him the two specified in the warscroll 😛

Edited November 20, 2018 by sorokyl

[sorokyl]

Sorry.. forgot pics! 

[PlasticCraic]

That's awesome! 

Yeah I know what you mean about the gun, I'm not sure the model needs it?

What a good idea though. And like you said, the wide stance really adds stature. 

Very cool. 

[sorokyl]

Thanks!

So I know the first Tyrant should have  Ghyrstrike/Wild Fury on Gutgouger. 
For the second, my math is showing me that without artefacts/command traits, double weapon beats gutgouger 4.74 to 4.16  against save of 4.  Against better saves it's closer against worse saves it's a bigger gap. The club comes in at 4.44 unbuffed against save of 4. 

Do you guys agree for  Tyrant #2 (without artefact or Command trait) that 2 weapons is the way to go? 

 

 

[Mayple]

5 hours ago, sorokyl said:

Thanks!

So I know the first Tyrant should have  Ghyrstrike/Wild Fury on Gutgouger. 
For the second, my math is showing me that without artefacts/command traits, double weapon beats gutgouger 4.74 to 4.16  against save of 4.  Against better saves it's closer against worse saves it's a bigger gap. The club comes in at 4.44 unbuffed against save of 4. 

Do you guys agree for  Tyrant #2 (without artefact or Command trait) that 2 weapons is the way to go? 

 

 

Absolutely. Using two weapons will also give you (for some reason) re-roll to hit when firing your guns (as it gives re-roll to hits in general, not only when attacking in close-combat) - so that will add up big time when used on several tyrants, and really help the ranged punch  

Edited November 21, 2018 by Mayple

[amysrevenge]

12 hours ago, Mayple said:

Absolutely. Using two weapons will also give you (for some reason) re-roll to hit when firing your guns (as it gives re-roll to hits in general, not only when attacking in close-combat) - so that will add up big time when used on several tyrants, and really help the ranged punch  

I've noticed this, but never had the balls to actually do it.  Hahahahaha

Edited November 21, 2018 by amysrevenge

[Kramer]

15 hours ago, Mayple said:

Absolutely. Using two weapons will also give you (for some reason) re-roll to hit when firing your guns (as it gives re-roll to hits in general, not only when attacking in close-combat) - so that will add up big time when used on several tyrants, and really help the ranged punch  

Everybody knows that when you order a gnobbler to get your second club, it’s a 50/50 chance he will bring a gun. Hence re-rolls on everything  

[PlasticCraic]

17 hours ago, Mayple said:

Absolutely. Using two weapons will also give you (for some reason) re-roll to hit when firing your guns (as it gives re-roll to hits in general, not only when attacking in close-combat) - so that will add up big time when used on several tyrants, and really help the ranged punch  

Wowzer!  I did not know this!

Great catch.