AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[broche]

11 minutes ago, Warmill said:

Don't take my dream of a healing krusha away from me! No I totally agree that's how it works, but it would be a nice little perk if he could better after being wounded, especially when terrorgheists heal d6 wounds a turn.

You can now heal him with a warchanter

You might also give emerald lifeswarm a try  

[Superninja]

Speaking of healing a mawkrusha, what about taking Ironclad(+1 to Saves) and Jade Diadem(6+ on saves heals 1 damage)  So each roll of 5 or a 6 you heal 1 point.  I think this could be useful. Throw wierd un mount trait for a little protection and you have a very survivable mawkrusha.  It could still get focus fired and it wouldn't be as 'killy' as other setups...but it seems good.  

Another setup I've been thinking about takes advantage of all the +1 to hit floating around.  +1 from mawkrusha command ability and +1 from warchanter killa beat.  Sword of Judgement (6+ to hit=D6 mortals) so on a 4+ D6 mortals.  Or Blade of Endings (6+ hit roll = add 2 damage) so on a 4+ add 2 damage.  Or even Blade of Carving (6+ hit roll=Wound roll is automatically successful) so on a 4+ wound roll is auto success.

The weapon setups may be sub-optimal compared to the defensive options available...but they look fun.\

Also thinking about running 2 footbosses.  One with Metalrippas Klaw and one with Rune Blade.   Makes them scary in melee for sure.

Sidenote:  A warchanter with a Rune Blade (-3 rend) looks great for the points.  Becomes a cheap threat.   6/4+/3+/-3/1  add in killa beat, +1 to hit from megaboss, and violent fury and its 6/2+/3+/-3/2.  Again, could be a waste of violent fury and an artefact...but its a cheap threat that looks fun.  Especially in lower point games.

All of this is probably sub-optimal but again, it looks fun.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Superninja

[Skumbaagh]

Now when the damage table is beaten to death...

I have been trying to get myself a wrath of gork list and this is what I have come up with. With +3 to cast (when within 6" of the idol), two really punchy units and a bunch of ardboys for screening. On a 4+ they may or may not come back to grab an objective in the enemy territory. 

The idea is to put out 8-10 mortal wounds the first turn and something similiar the second. To play defensively and  use the ironsunz charge in the opponents charge face as a defensive counter.

I could either go with the spell portal to target a support hero or put the weirdnob in the front line to get 27" reach T1. (1+4" base size+16"+6") to maybe reach something juicy or force a battle shock on a screen. The list is quite slow and the weirdnob needs to stay in the middle and close to the idol at all times.

With this list  its either going ironsunz or the big waagh! Ironsunz doesnt force any compromises so there is no point not using it.

Big waagh is good but one would want to keep the waagh points for the passives instead of using them to add to cast rolls the first couple of turns.

A maw krusha instead of gordrakk unlocks IJ waagh which could be brutal but I figured Gordrakks ability is better. instead one could bring pigs for some speed and more boys for the wrath of gork damage output. List is 4 drops now which is really good IMO. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (540)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70) OR Balewind Vortex (40) + 1 Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

What are your opinions!?!

 

[broche]

39 minutes ago, Superninja said:

Speaking of healing a mawkrusha, what about taking Ironclad(+1 to Saves) and Jade Diadem(6+ on saves heals 1 damage)  So each roll of 5 or a 6 you heal 1 point.  I think this could be useful. Throw wierd un mount trait for a little protection and you have a very survivable mawkrusha.  It could still get focus fired and it wouldn't be as 'killy' as other setups...but it seems good.  

Jade diadem as an errata in the FAQ, it's unmodifed 6  

I think the best set up for a survivable Maw Krusha is either Etheral amulet with a mystic shield + weird'un to mitigate spell. The good thing is that it leave you a potential aggresive trait like Live to fight or brutish cunning (or subfaction trait meh), or Ironclad + Ignax scale if you fear mortal (you could also go for Ironclad + daubing of mork, wich is kind of the in-between as it's block every type of damage). In either case you're somewhat dependant on a successful Mystic shield to cut the damage (you could always use a command point in combat if needed).

With those kind of setup, it worth taking rip tooth fist  as  you will bounce a nice amount of damage likely enough to mitigate the extra 2 attack (loosing the 2'' reach might hurt tough)

[Superninja]

oh boo. probably for the best. ty @broche

I see it now. sorry.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Superninja

[Jabbuk]

Quick question on rules and artefact selection guys.

I'm playing a 700pts game tomorrow and I am going for Bloodtoofs for extra mobility and potentially guaranteed HoG.

My list though:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- General

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Total: 700 / 750
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 66
 

I have the following question. The Bloodtoofs clan states that the Quickduff Amulet must be given to the first Bloodtoof Megaboss. I don't have a Megaboss general in my list. Does that mean I cannot give the Quickduff Amulet to my warchanter since he's not a megaboss? If so, what should I do?

[Scurvydog]

5 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

I have the following question. The Bloodtoofs clan states that the Quickduff Amulet must be given to the first Bloodtoof Megaboss. I don't have a Megaboss general in my list. Does that mean I cannot give the Quickduff Amulet to my warchanter since he's not a megaboss? If so, what should I do?

Correct so you will be unable to get that with your armylist but any general is forced to take the horrible trait, which you can not use, as a Megaboss general is needed to use Waaagh at all. Not a big loss as the warchanter has no available traits anyway.

The list is probably stronger by sacrificing Waagh and a command trait though at only 750 pts to get more wounds on the board.

 

With your list I would recommend a look at Da Choppas instead, this is also the only way to give a warchanter a command trait, as it just states the general must have it, not which type of model. Rerolling charges will happen a lot most likely. The command ability is only mildly useful in your list, as you will at best be able to buff the ardboyz and brutes, but that could win a game still with +1 damage to both.

 

[Jabbuk]

1 minute ago, Scurvydog said:

Correct so you will be unable to get that with your armylist but any general is forced to take the horrible trait, which you can not use, as a Megaboss general is needed to use Waaagh at all. Not a big loss as the warchanter has no available traits anyway.

The list is probably stronger by sacrificing Waagh and a command trait though at only 750 pts to get more wounds on the board.

 

With your list I would recommend a look at Da Choppas instead, this is also the only way to give a warchanter a command trait, as it just states the general must have it, not which type of model. Rerolling charges will happen a lot most likely. The command ability is only mildly useful in your list, as you will at best be able to buff the ardboyz and brutes, but that could win a game still with +1 damage to both.

 

That's a really good idea @Scurvydog. Thanks for your feedback.

[Jabbuk]

3 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Correct so you will be unable to get that with your armylist but any general is forced to take the horrible trait, which you can not use, as a Megaboss general is needed to use Waaagh at all. Not a big loss as the warchanter has no available traits anyway.

The list is probably stronger by sacrificing Waagh and a command trait though at only 750 pts to get more wounds on the board.

 

With your list I would recommend a look at Da Choppas instead, this is also the only way to give a warchanter a command trait, as it just states the general must have it, not which type of model. Rerolling charges will happen a lot most likely. The command ability is only mildly useful in your list, as you will at best be able to buff the ardboyz and brutes, but that could win a game still with +1 damage to both.

 

Does it mean however that I get to choose an artefact from the Table in the book?

[Scurvydog]

Just now, Jabbuk said:

Does it mean however that I get to choose an artefact from the Table in the book?

The warchanter is unable to take any artifacts from the Warclans book, there is only a table for megabosses and for weirdnobs for some reason. You can choose an artifact from the Malign Sorceries book instead, if in doubt you can always go with the aetherquartz brooch, as that is never a bad idea to have, and you will want to use mighty destroyers as much as possible.

For that reason I might recommend merging the gruntas to 1 unit with 6 and give them spears, it is much better value with your 1 warchanter to buff that unit and also use mighty destroyers on them. You can then buff all 6 with +1 dmg and mighty destroyers to move 2x9" and then most likely reroll their charge if playing da choppas. With spears the riders are at 2+/2+ as well, especially in a 750 game that big super fast unit will squish just about anything, although expect your opponent to become a tad salty

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Does it mean however that I get to choose an artefact from the Table in the book?

Yes except warchanters don't have an artefact in the book.

You'll have to take from malign sorcery instead.

[Jabbuk]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Yes except warchanters don't have an artefact in the book.

You'll have to take from malign sorcery instead.

Wow thanks guys for the precision. Now that I look at it, there's only a table for megabosses and weirdnobs, it's true. Hmm, I might rework my list then. 

[Jabbuk]

9 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

then most likely reroll their charge if playing da choppas.

GGs don't benefit from the abilities in Da Choppas though

[Scurvydog]

2 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

GGs don't benefit from the abilities in Da Choppas though

All units in Da Choppas can reroll charges if within 12" of terrain which is fully or partially in enemy territory.

It is only the command ability which allows the warchanter to buff up to 3 units of ardboyz and brutes which excludes gruntas.

[Jabbuk]

10 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

All units in Da Choppas can reroll charges if within 12" of terrain which is fully or partially in enemy territory.

It is only the command ability which allows the warchanter to buff up to 3 units of ardboyz and brutes which excludes gruntas.

Damn, I really have to increase my reading skills. Thanks man

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

The warchanter is unable to take any artifacts from the Warclans book, there is only a table for megabosses and for weirdnobs for some reason. You can choose an artifact from the Malign Sorceries book instead, if in doubt you can always go with the aetherquartz brooch, as that is never a bad idea to have, and you will want to use mighty destroyers as much as possible.

For that reason I might recommend merging the gruntas to 1 unit with 6 and give them spears, it is much better value with your 1 warchanter to buff that unit and also use mighty destroyers on them. You can then buff all 6 with +1 dmg and mighty destroyers to move 2x9" and then most likely reroll their charge if playing da choppas. With spears the riders are at 2+/2+ as well, especially in a 750 game that big super fast unit will squish just about anything, although expect your opponent to become a tad salty

I decided to include the 6 GGs idea in the list and make it my main hammer unit that I'll send at his ranks fast to pin them there. I am playing against Gloomspite Gitz (he has 690 points) and the Battleplan is "The better part of Valor". I am seriously considering dropping the Warchanter for the Weirdnob Shaman so that I can take the HoG spell. I know what the Warchanter is our best hero on foot but is running without one a huge mistake? I was also considering taking the Brain-Bursta spell on my Weirdnob to compensate as the Gloomspite Gitz have terrible bravery (it could be some easy Mortal wounds.

What's your take on swapping the WC for Shaman in that scenario?

Edited October 16, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Scurvydog]

12 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

I decided to include the 6 GGs idea in the list and make it my main hammer unit that I'll send at his ranks fast to pin them there. I am playing against Gloomspite Gitz (he has 690 points) and the Battleplan is "The better part of Valor". I am seriously considering dropping the Warchanter for the Weirdnob Shaman so that I can take the HoG spell. I know what the Warchanter is our best hero on foot but is running without one a huge mistake? I was also considering taking the Brain-Bursta spell on my Weirdnob to compensate as the Gloomspite Gitz have terrible bravery (it could be some easy Mortal wounds.

What's your take on swapping the WC for Shaman in that scenario?

The warchanter is far better, just for the +1 damage buff alone will increase the output if your hammer unit by 100%, if you use mighty destroyers your gruntas can move up to 18" a turn so you should not need hand of gork at all. Against Gitz you will most likely have the lowest drops as well and decide to have him go first, it should be no issue to charge turn 1 with the gruntas with mighty destroyers and buffed with +1 damage.

The shaman is unreliable and the Gitz got a lot of good casters, so you will both have to cast a 7+ spell and not have it dispelled, if under the bad moon you will even get minus to your casts. In a 750 game you should be playing on a 48x48 board, so with 18" moving gore gruntas with also most likely rerolling charges, no teleporting needed.

[Jabbuk]

1 minute ago, Scurvydog said:

The warchanter is far better, just for the +1 damage buff alone will increase the output if your hammer unit by 100%, if you use mighty destroyers your gruntas can move up to 18" a turn so you should not need hand of gork at all. Against Gitz you will most likely have the lowest drops as well and decide to have him go first, it should be no issue to charge turn 1 with the gruntas with mighty destroyers and buffed with +1 damage.

The shaman is unreliable and the Gitz got a lot of good casters, so you will both have to cast a 7+ spell and not have it dispelled, if under the bad moon you will even get minus to your casts. In a 750 game you should be playing on a 48x48 board, so with 18" moving gore gruntas with also most likely rerolling charges, no teleporting needed.

Great analysis, makes perfect sense. 

[svnvaldez]

2 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I am seriously considering dropping the Warchanter for the Weirdnob Shaman so that I can take the HoG spell. I know what the Warchanter is our best hero on foot but is running without one a huge mistake?

I'm not sold that the HoG spell is all that good. Casting value seems high with limited ways to get + to cast. If you plan to HoG something I much prefer taking the artifact from bloodtoofs.

I think 1 Warchanter will be auto include in every list (even at 700 points).

Are you guys playing a Vanguard pitched battle (pg. 54 of the GH19)? rather than a Battlehost or a Warhost pitched battle or say a meeting engagement (pg. 72 of the GH19)?

Vanguards only require 2 battleline. maybe think about something like this? 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)

Total: 700 / 1000

Edited October 16, 2019 by svnvaldez

[broche]

3 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

I'm not sold that the HoG spell is all that good. Casting value seems high with limited ways to get + to cast. If you plan to HoG something I much prefer taking the artifact from bloodtoofs.

Yeah, Weirnob is one of the Hero that took a beat with the new book... However HoG is still not bad even with no cast bonus, considering it's a potential threath all game long. But it's more an extra than a stapple for sure

[Jabbuk]

32 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

I'm not sold that the HoG spell is all that good. Casting value seems high with limited ways to get + to cast. If you plan to HoG something I much prefer taking the artifact from bloodtoofs.

I think 1 Warchanter will be auto include in every list (even at 700 points).

Are you guys playing a Vanguard pitched battle (pg. 54 of the GH19)? rather than a Battlehost or a Warhost pitched battle or say a meeting engagement (pg. 72 of the GH19)?

Vanguards only require 2 battleline. maybe think about something like this? 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)

Total: 700 / 1000

Hey @svnvaldez

We're playing a Vanguard pitched Battle.

Your list is exactly what I'm using, though I have split my ardboys in a 10 and 5 group to allow me to capture an additional objective, potentially 

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

Hey @svnvaldez

We're playing a Vanguard pitched Battle.

Your list is exactly what I'm using, though I have split my ardboys in a 10 and 5 group to allow me to capture an additional objective, potentially 

I think you will do very well with it

[Superninja]

I just played my first game with Ironjawz using the new rules and it felt really good.  I played against Stormcast in Chamon (ignoring all rend) on Total Conquest.  Everything ingoring rend changed the game.   

My 6 man unit of Goregruntas were the MVP (2nd was warchanter).  The mortals and the +1 to hit/wound on charge is super great.The unit of 6 Goregruntas charged and took out the unit of 10 Evocators(buffedby my warchanter and with 1 extra Waagh attack).

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas

-1x Boss Klaw and  Brute Smasha
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas

-1x Boss Klaw and Brute Smasha
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Superninja

[Scurvydog]

After having played a few games with the Ironjawz in the new book my primary take aways so far are:

Mighty Destroyers is the most important tool, it is so good that I find a general with the brutal cunning trait more important than the warclans, especially in below 2k games and without the ironfist battalion.

The combo of doom is basically 2 warchanters buffing up a unit of 6 gruntas and a MK, then both due to mighty destroyers have a HUGE threat range nearly nobody are able to deal with, and both hit so incredibly hard, you can usually target units in a way to wreck 1 and instantly fight with your other unit right after. It takes careful screening by your opponent to mitigate this in any way and thanks to +1 damage lasting to next hero phase, they are still dangerous to fight.

The weirdnob is hardly worth it if not getting 100% attention as a general in a big waagh with the trait to know and cast 2 spells and +cast artifacts and access to +to cast from waaagh zap. In pure Ironjawz I dobut I will use this guy much unfortunately, as him being the general also sacrifices the ability to use Waaagh, but this could be a worthwhile tradeof for example in Ironsunz, to get around the horrid megaboss trait and artifacts. Yes you can't Waagh, but you get a 2 spell caster with +1 to cast, which greatly increases his usefulness and chance to get anything of. This would also be the perfect time to use Gordrakk as your Mawkrusha boss.

Warchanters are absolute beasts and makes any unit an absolute terror and you should always bring at least 1 for every 1k points. Warbeats are just happy coincidences though, don't plan for that 4+... I prefer fixin beat, due to the above doom combo, the warchanters have a hard time to keep up and be in range for the 2 others in the first couple of rounds.

Everyone seems to be hating on brutes, I know where they are coming from and perhaps this depends on the local meta, but if you face just a bit of units with 4+ wounds, then their damage is by far the best for their points, so having at least a unit of these guys to chase some big stuff is worth it and cant be ignored by your opponent.

Again maximize the use of mighty destroyers, this is proabably the best command ability in the game if you could only chose 1. Seriously consider your available CP and if a warclan is worth it compared to Brutal Cunning to use this for free one more time each round.

[Malakree]

@Scurvydog agree with most of it. 1 Warchanter is mandatory at all points lvls IMO. 2 unless you have a good reason and 3 if points allow. I definately agree on fixin beat as no1 though I think the +1 hit is also good due to it being toe in.

Mighty destroyers has been key since it was changed with gbh2019. Though I disagree with brutal cunning being so important at 2k+. It wasn't needed previously and cps were more key than now.

Almost every list should include a battalion, this then gives your Warchanter the mandatory aetherquartz. At that point I consider Ironsunz and Brutish cunning to roughly equivalent with it being personal choice.