Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[PJetski]

That's why it is a rule of thumb.

The FAQ was very clear about the Ring of Immortality costing reinforcement points, and it is very easy to extrapolate that logic to other units that are slain and set up again.

You may not agree with it but the ruling is clear. Until they put out an FAQ specifically for the Phoenix, Hammers of Sigmar, Green Knight, etc. they will cost points to use those ressurection abilities.

Feel free to house-rule otherwise, of course

[kozokus]

32 minutes ago, PJetski said:

it is very easy to extrapolate that logic to other units that are slain and set up again

Indeed the FAQ was adressing the ring, a subject of great abuse on 400+ models that could be resurected for no point (or mummy guards).

Extrapolating this on anything else is debatable as you paid for a bonus you remove which is ... counterintuitive to say the least.

39 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You may not agree with it but the ruling is clear.

The ruling is quite clear indeed, but the rules are not speaking about all the cases, only two out of three. (resurect models, add unit, resurect unit)

I would gladly accept any answer and until them this is a question i will ask to my opponent/TO.

Fortunately, GHB 2 will be here in 2 month to bury that question.

 

[Requizen]

New thought experiment - single drop MSU lists. Lots of units, always win deployment against anything not single drop.

Anvils of the Heldenhammer with Vanguard:

Spoiler

Lord Celestant on Dracoth - Staunch Defender, Soulthief
Lord Castellant - Lantern of the Tempest
Lord Celestant
Lord Relictor - Mirrorshield, Lightning Chariot

Judicators x5
Judicators x5
Judicators x5
Liberators x5
Liberators x5
Liberators x5

Vanguard Hunters x5
Vanguard Hunters x5
Vanguard Hunters x5
Vanguard Hunters x5

Thunderhead Brotherhood
Anvils of the Heldenhammer Warrior Chamber

 

A big old line of hard to kill things - Liberators will be 3+ from Staunch Defender, Judicators will be 2+, strong against shooting with Lantern and Mirrorshields. Hunters flank and hit a bunch of points all over. Them + Lightning Chariot actually makes the list a bit more mobile than people may expect. Or, could replace the Relictor with an Azyros with a fancy Lantern. Maybe +1 attack for the LCoD?

Given our low model count and weakness to things like MWs and somewhat battleshock, MSU might not be the best way to play. But, it does offer lots of tactical options in terms of being all around the board and threat overload. Plus it's something different!

Trying to make a pure shooting MSU army that has as few drops as possible is pretty hard. Single drops are difficult to fit and require lots of units you don't necessarily want. Tempest Lords with Vanguard Wing is 240 in Battalions, but at least you're getting Prosecutors with Javelins for more shooting. Too bad Vanguard Auxiliary is 100 points over.

[Braneric]

Is Staunch Defender the only trait anyone ever uses?

[Requizen]

Actually just as I wrote that I typed this Tempest Lords list up:

Spoiler

 

Lord Aquilor - Shielded By Faith, Mirrorshield, Aethereal Stalker
Knight Venator - Luckstone
Knight Heraldor
Knight Azyros
Knight Azyros

Judicators x5
Judicators x5
Liberators x5
Hunters x5
Hunters x5
Hunters x5

Prosecutors w Javelins x3
Prosecutors w Javelins x3
Prosecutors w Javelins x3
Prosecutors w Javelins x3

Vanguard Wing
Tempest Lords

 

Some other Artifact. Everything is very mobile other than the Judicators (but they have range), Everything shoots except the Liberators or the Azyroses, but the Knights boost shooting. The speed and shooting could be nuts. Not a competitive list probably but an extremely fun one!

[Olincay]

Allright lads, I'll be attempting to use the Aetherstrike list on the weekend, unfortunately ill only have 6 longstrikes instead of 9. 

So how do you use this list in an objective based game? I've never used a heavy shooting army before. 

What do i use to grab objectives and hold them? Only real foot troops ill have will be 1x liberators and 2x protectors which I was planning on using as a screen to protect my shooting. 

Any advice will be appreciated thanx. 

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Olincay said:

Allright lads, I'll be attempting to use the Aetherstrike list on the weekend, unfortunately ill only have 6 longstrikes instead of 9. 

So how do you use this list in an objective based game? I've never used a heavy shooting army before. 

What do i use to grab objectives and hold them? Only real foot troops ill have will be 1x liberators and 2x protectors which I was planning on using as a screen to protect my shooting. 

Any advice will be appreciated thanx. 

Post your list?

Generally you deploy the raptors, judicators, birds, gryph hound and protectors on the board with your Azyros and general (usually Veritant or Castellant). Use extra units like Liberators to capture objectives.

[Kakoshka]

4 hours ago, Olincay said:

Allright lads, I'll be attempting to use the Aetherstrike list on the weekend, unfortunately ill only have 6 longstrikes instead of 9. 

So how do you use this list in an objective based game? I've never used a heavy shooting army before. 

What do i use to grab objectives and hold them? Only real foot troops ill have will be 1x liberators and 2x protectors which I was planning on using as a screen to protect my shooting. 

Any advice will be appreciated thanx. 

I run two Lord-Relictors in my list both with Lightning Chariot. It can reposition ranged units, send in birds for hero phase shooting or just put units on objectives. If you dont't have many raptors taking chariot over bless weapons definitely makes sense.

[CountryMou3e]

9 longstrikes is overkill in one unit and too meaty a target. 6 is plenty an you can spread your threat then


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[ledha]

15 hours ago, Braneric said:

Is Staunch Defender the only trait anyone ever uses?

i use the one who give +5 move to D3 unit in my hammerstrike force list. Moving the prosecutor near the opponent become very easy and it's a 99,9% chance to make a good hammerstrike drop. It always take my opponent by surprise

[Olincay]

7 hours ago, PJetski said:

Post your list?

Generally you deploy the raptors, judicators, birds, gryph hound and protectors on the board with your Azyros and general (usually Veritant or Castellant). Use extra units like Liberators to capture objectives.

This is a rough draft, not set in stone. 

Pretty sure ill be facing a stormcast army with a stardrake and fulminators as the main threat. Scenario will most likely be border war or 3 places.

[CountryMou3e]

This is a rough draft, not set in stone. 
Pretty sure ill be facing a stormcast army with a stardrake and fulminators as the main threat. Scenario will most likely be border war or 3 places.

How do the paladins work out for you ? I can never get them into combat hahaha. Just need to git gud, jokes aside, I'm testing palladors tomorrow. Fingers crossed


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[Olincay]

14 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

How do the paladins work out for you ? I can never get them into combat hahaha. Just need to git gud, jokes aside, I'm testing palladors tomorrow. Fingers crossed


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I've been running the hammerstrike with a unit of 10 Retributors and 10 Protectors, it's abit of a glass hammer since paladins tend to die or battleshock off pretty easy.
My main intention with them in this list is to run up and defend any objectives I need to take, while hopefully with some decent positioning giving -1 to hit anything my opponent is shooting at.
I have considered putting in a Heraldor to help them charge and enemy if need be, but opted for the extra Relictor and lightning chariot.

How are you running your Palladors?

[CountryMou3e]

I've been running the hammerstrike for with a unit of 10 Retributors and 10 Protectors, it's abit of a glass hammer since paladins tend to die or battleshock off pretty easy.
My main intention with them in this list is to run up and defend any objectives I need to take, while hopefully with some decent positioning giving -1 to hit anything my opponent is shooting at.
I have considered putting in a Heraldor to help them charge and enemy if need be, but opted for the extra Relictor and lightning chariot.

How are you running your Palladors?

Hopefully as early scoring objective takers or back field harassers. Javelins aswell, I'm also running aquilor to help re position my vanguard units if needed and LCoD is my wildcard to mitigate battleshock and provide a pokey scoring hero if the game goes that way


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[PJetski]

4 hours ago, Olincay said:

This is a rough draft, not set in stone. 

Pretty sure ill be facing a stormcast army with a stardrake and fulminators as the main threat. Scenario will most likely be border war or 3 places.

Looks pretty standard. My list is usually the same but with a few swaps like

-5 Protectors
+5 Raptors

-1 Celestant
-1 Relictor
+1 Castellant, Veritant, or Heraldor
+1-2 Gryph Hound

I don't see any reason to run a Celestant with this list - his hit bonus only works in the Combat phase. I would immediately swap him out.

You are missing the bonus artifact for running a battalion.

For artifacts I usually take:
1. Mirrorshield on the Azyros to keep him alive because he lets you reroll hit1 and activates the first battalion ability
2.  Lantern of the Tempest on Veritant/Castellant. Aetherstrike's only weakness is shooting from units like Hellcannons and Skyfires and making them reroll hit6 is really good when combined with 1 or 2 lines of Protectors reducing their hit rolls. It is exceptional against Kunnin Rukk because they hit on 5+ baseline and Skyfires rely on rolling 6 to do mortal wounds so forcing them to reroll can completely change the game.

 

As for strategy:

If your opposent is using a shooting army you need your Protectors on the table.
If your opponent is running a melee army then keep Protectors in reserve and use them to capture objectives.
Use Judicators as an anti-melee screen because when they die you get to shoot.
It is VERY IMPORTANT that you use Inspiring Presence on Judicators because if they flee you don't get to shoot with your Raptors.
Master your deployment and you should rarely (if ever) lose to a deep strike list. Check my posts earlier in the thread for tips about this.

When you play Aetherstrike correctly it is, in my opinion, the strongest list in the game. I think it may actually be too powerful and might need to be banned from competitive play.

 

[Olincay]

11 hours ago, PJetski said:

Looks pretty standard. My list is usually the same but with a few swaps like

-5 Protectors
+5 Raptors

-1 Celestant
-1 Relictor
+1 Castellant, Veritant, or Heraldor
+1-2 Gryph Hound

I don't see any reason to run a Celestant with this list - his hit bonus only works in the Combat phase. I would immediately swap him out.

You are missing the bonus artifact for running a battalion.

For artifacts I usually take:
1. Mirrorshield on the Azyros to keep him alive because he lets you reroll hit1 and activates the first battalion ability
2.  Lantern of the Tempest on Veritant/Castellant. Aetherstrike's only weakness is shooting from units like Hellcannons and Skyfires and making them reroll hit6 is really good when combined with 1 or 2 lines of Protectors reducing their hit rolls. It is exceptional against Kunnin Rukk because they hit on 5+ baseline and Skyfires rely on rolling 6 to do mortal wounds so forcing them to reroll can completely change the game.

 

As for strategy:

If your opposent is using a shooting army you need your Protectors on the table.
If your opponent is running a melee army then keep Protectors in reserve and use them to capture objectives.
Use Judicators as an anti-melee screen because when they die you get to shoot.
It is VERY IMPORTANT that you use Inspiring Presence on Judicators because if they flee you don't get to shoot with your Raptors.
Master your deployment and you should rarely (if ever) lose to a deep strike list. Check my posts earlier in the thread for tips about this.

When you play Aetherstrike correctly it is, in my opinion, the strongest list in the game. I think it may actually be too powerful and might need to be banned from competitive play.

 

Excuse my naivety, but how do I give my Judicators Inspiring Presence? Is it a prayer?  

Unforunarely i dont currently own a Castellant or a Veritant  BUT i did consider running a Heraldor.

[PJetski]

It's a Command Ability that every general knows how to use, check the 4 page rules

[Veillotron]

I've searched for the answer and cannot find it...

So here goes: the Dracoth's Drake-kin trait states "If this Hero suffers damage from an attack with a Damage characteristic greater than 1, roll a dice. On a 5 or more the Hero only suffers 1 Damage from the attack."

To confirm: a) Damage refers to both Wounds and Mortal Wounds, correct? b) attack includes spells and special abilities in addition to missile weapons and melee weapons? For example, my LCOD would have a 33% chance of changing the 6 MWs from a Thundertusk  to a 1?

 

 

 

 

 

[PJetski]

It says "an attack" so it wouldn't work against spells and special abilities.

Thundertusk is a weird case. It is a missile weapon but you don't make attacks with it; the damage comes from a special ability.

[Turragor]

Help me out here as I can't find it anymore:

There was a bit of a chat about taking aetherstrike AND hammerstrike together.

Was this thought of as a bad thing?

I know you could spend alll the other points on 1 maximising the other and perhaps it loses out to the pure version of either battalion.

I'm mainly curious as I have a tourney soon (I'd take a purer aether list if I had the models) and it's a toss up between aether and hammer and aether and a LCoSD.

 

[Veillotron]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

It says "an attack" so it wouldn't work against spells and special abilities.

Thundertusk is a weird case. It is a missile weapon but you don't make attacks with it; the damage comes from a special ability.

Thank you @PJetski, this is helpful. Re the Thundertusk point, I guess I'll ask GDubz on their Facebook page...

[Veillotron]

@Turragor: are you really asking us whether or not you should field a Stardrake? Really? Look into your heart - you know your want to...

 

Sorry, not helpful reply; I just couldn't help myself 

 

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

2 hours ago, Turragor said:

Help me out here as I can't find it anymore:

There was a bit of a chat about taking aetherstrike AND hammerstrike together.

Was this thought of as a bad thing?

I know you could spend alll the other points on 1 maximising the other and perhaps it loses out to the pure version of either battalion.

I'm mainly curious as I have a tourney soon (I'd take a purer aether list if I had the models) and it's a toss up between aether and hammer and aether and a LCoSD.

 

If you are planning to write a list for 2,000pts tournaments, I recommend focusing on one battalion instead of mixing them.

Both of the Aetherstrike Force and the Hammerstrike Force take up huge chunks of points in a Battlehost.

Minimum-sized Hammerstrike Force costs 600pts, and the Aetherstrike Force 1,080pts.

So taking both battalions in 2,000pts list will leave you with very few other options, while being unable to maximise the effectiveness of either battalion.

 

For example, suppose you are running the Aetherstrike Force.

I find taking a unit of 6 longstrike crossbow raptors mandatory for running a proper Aetherstrike Force.

Resolving that retaliatory shooting with 3 Raptors is simply underwhelming.  

You also need protectors to support the Raptors and Judicators, and that will leave you with no space for Hammerstrike Force.

Same goes with Lord-Celestant on Stardrake. He looks good with Mirrorshield and Warding Lantern support, but he is too expensive.

 

 

[Turragor]

2 hours ago, Veillotron said:

@Turragor: are you really asking us whether or not you should field a Stardrake? Really? Look into your heart - you know your want to...

 

Sorry, not helpful reply; I just couldn't help myself 

 

Best response

[kozokus]

FLY mighty dragon! 

Burn the ennemy, crush them under your mighty claws and eat alive thoses pesky banners that brings skeletons back.

I personally dont see myself going outside at a  2000 event without one.

 

BUUUURN!