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Requizen

Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

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The issue I have with SCE shooting is that those units are very soft. For around the same price DoT get Skyfires, which are way faste, have a similar output, better melee and more survivability. Outside of a 3+ roll with Scions, which is in no way reliable, Skyfires will usually get the jump on Raptors. Even if Raptors get the jump, similar output but more live means that Skyfires will win this exchange either way.

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Just trying to list build my first 2000pts using the new battletome. Are any of the Larger Warscroll Batallions, made up of multiple formations actually achievable in that points range? Without adding the points up it just seems to me that the points I would need are double what I am trying to achieve.

I have:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth
Lord Relictor
Knight Questor

15 Liberators
10 Paladin Retributors
3 Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers
3 Vanguard Raptors and Aetherwings

Currently I think the only formation (let alone multi formation warscroll) I can fill is 2x Paladins / 1 prosectuor formation. And I am only a box of judicators away from the 3 Liberator / 2 Judicators formation.

Would be good to know what people suggest with what I have and then whether any of these big formations actually fit in 2000.

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4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Hey @Immersturm...what were the DoT lists you have faced so far? If you remember 

Both were experimental lists, same as mine. First one had a big Tzangor blob, 3 Skyfires, 6 Enlightened, two sets of 10 Pink Horrors with upgrades paid for the full Blue and Brim split, LoC, Shaman, Gaunt guy, regular Sorc with MoT. Everything on Discs obviously. There was a Battalion.

Second one was the extra 9" movement Battalion with two sets of 3 Skyfires, 6 Enlightened, three sets of 10 Horrors without splits. Two shamans, an Ogroid guy, regular Sorc with MoT. Everything on Discs.

I can not quite recall the spells. I know the LoC had Doombolt, some other had that unit replentishment spell, yet another the extra dice for the trait pool, this re-roll saves spell depending on the trait dice and of cause their own.

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Ahh I know those battalions. Nailing down a good list is difficult without being easily sucked into going full daemon.

Didn't use more then 3 Skyfires per unit thou? 

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23 hours ago, Immersturm said:

I can see it working damn well with Liberators and Dracoths are additional units. couple it either with +1 saves or D3 units scout and you have a force that is tough to shift... unless you face MW spam.

What bothers me is the Devastation Brohood. When they use Scions, they need to stay 9" away and they have no other ways of getting close reliably. The Hammerstrike can, at least, get around that restriction. How did the Brohood do?

The brotherhood did good.Keep in mind that they were mainly backup to the liberators (Protectors especially) and rets,decis kept my flanks.

The ability of the prosecutors combined with Shriving lights and Decimators (-1,-1,-2 to and /or dice roll bravery) had a moderate impact but then again it was versus death.The same rooster against Ironjaws yesterday made 3 units of brutes with a single/or two models killed to withdraw completely (plus bad roll of 6's and 5's) in 2 turns.

20 hours ago, Votters said:

Where you just using 5 of each paladin unit?  

Yes, 5 paladins per retinue thought i may need 10 Protectors to backup the Liberators, Used 6 Raptors with hurricane but performed badly. Yesterday i used Longstrike crossbows (3) and performed as intended (2-4 wounds ).Next battle will use 6 Longstrike. Also Venator is under performing constantly even with luckstone, rend -1 isn't that sure to not be saved, especially if enemy hero has 3+ save.

 

17 hours ago, Immersturm said:

Tzeentch and BCR are among the most powerful lists and thus most likely to be seen in a competitive meta.

Well, they can test my 3/3/-/1 or 3/3/-1/2 , 2+ save, re roll 1's-2's Liberator retinue of 15 (or 20), with maybe Bless weapons.

 

 

 

 

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No, primarily a model constraint. Still, it was enough to reduce my Longstrikes with +1 saves from 6 to 3.

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2 hours ago, Knight-Errant said:

Well, they can test my 3/3/-/1 or 3/3/-1/2 , 2+ save, re roll 1's-2's Liberator retinue of 15 (or 20), with maybe Bless weapons.

Tzeentch MW output would like a word with your silly little 2+ saves lol

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And Skryre, and BCR, and Bloodletter bombs. 

Stormcast really fit the Lightning theme now - you need to hit hard and fast, cut the right target down. We're powerful for a flash but don't stand up to extended fights against anti-elite armies (or get bogged down by 40 Grots/Zombies/Plaguebearers/Rats/etc).

Luckily, we have the tools to make very powerful alpha strikes, which we'll see develop over time. 

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40 minutes ago, Requizen said:

And Skryre, and BCR, and Bloodletter bombs. 

Stormcast really fit the Lightning theme now - you need to hit hard and fast, cut the right target down. We're powerful for a flash but don't stand up to extended fights against anti-elite armies (or get bogged down by 40 Grots/Zombies/Plaguebearers/Rats/etc).

Luckily, we have the tools to make very powerful alpha strikes, which we'll see develop over time. 

Perhaps the beta strike will be the new alpha strike against armies that have a bit of speed and movement tools along with anti-elite output.

Maybe an omega strike. Strike the telling last blow.

Edited by Turragor

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Question regarding Angelos battalion.  The extra shots from the hunters can only be used when all the units of hunters hit the table from pursuit? So in reality this will only reliably be done once?  Or am I reading this wrong?

 

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On 2/18/2017 at 9:03 AM, Fellclaw01 said:

Def not, tbh im desperate as they are my main faction and they just appear to perform awful in every game.

if i want to win i need to use something else like empire or a mix of other order units

i am particularly bitter as i felt they were underpowered to start with. Unit for unit i seem to be able to get better units and more importantly unit buffs from other order units

Maybe you are just bad... not trying to be rude, just realistic.  I just got into the game myself (Though I have been wargamming for years), and I haven't lost a game with them yet.  I have only used the new BT, but they seem very very solid.  

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16 hours ago, Votters said:

Question regarding Angelos battalion.  The extra shots from the hunters can only be used when all the units of hunters hit the table from pursuit? So in reality this will only reliably be done once?  Or am I reading this wrong?

 

That's how it works as far as I can tell. 

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19 hours ago, Votters said:

Question regarding Angelos battalion.  The extra shots from the hunters can only be used when all the units of hunters hit the table from pursuit? So in reality this will only reliably be done once?  Or am I reading this wrong?

 

Yes it's just a one time thing as there is no way to get all 3 put back in pursuit.

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3 hours ago, Khornes_Berzerker said:

Yes it's just a one time thing as there is no way to get all 3 put back in pursuit.

Three lord Aquillors? Not like that's practical or efficient. 

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8 hours ago, Lord Aquillor said:

Maybe you are just bad... not trying to be rude, just realistic.  I just got into the game myself (Though I have been wargamming for years), and I haven't lost a game with them yet.  I have only used the new BT, but they seem very very solid.  

I play in a vey compeditive group with very very good players, we always joke  that when we want to play friendly games we should do to stormcast levels of power

When i seen people play stormcast only in the flesh its the exact same thing, i also put a challenge to the best players in the group they cant make a stormcast list to match thiers

for compeditive play i now use a mix and match of order units and these work fine, there are only a few units in storm cast i tend to use as there are better options in a lot of the other order factions. 

Need to get around to warching some online batreps when i get the chance

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50 minutes ago, Fellclaw01 said:

I play in a vey compeditive group with very very good players, we always joke  that when we want to play friendly games we should do to stormcast levels of power

When i seen people play stormcast only in the flesh its the exact same thing, i also put a challenge to the best players in the group they cant make a stormcast list to match thiers

for compeditive play i now use a mix and match of order units and these work fine, there are only a few units in storm cast i tend to use as there are better options in a lot of the other order factions. 

Need to get around to warching some online batreps when i get the chance

Before the new book, warrior brotherhood was one of the strongest lists in the game, post new book the meta of stormcasts lists has still yet to shake out so we'll see how that goes. As for your anecdote, I've had the exact opposite experience. In fact I've played against several lists involving maxed out hardcore empire and other mixed min/max order armies and tabled them losing maybe a unit of liberators and a 3-4 judicators. The only order army I have trouble with is sylvaneth but that's largely because I haven't played against them enough to figure out the counter moves.

The issue with stormcasts is that the armies they're good against(basically anything with sort of normal combat or non-mw shooting) can't even hurt them but armies that have high mortal wound output become problematic very quickly due to the lack of MW saves and low model count. Tzeentch especially has a very favorable matchup, unless you miss-deploy and lose 3/4ths of your army turn 2 which is totally possible. 

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2 hours ago, Fellclaw01 said:

i also put a challenge to the best players in the group they cant make a stormcast list to match thiers

19446494.jpg

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4 hours ago, Fellclaw01 said:

I play in a vey compeditive group with very very good players, we always joke  that when we want to play friendly games we should do to stormcast levels of power

When i seen people play stormcast only in the flesh its the exact same thing, i also put a challenge to the best players in the group they cant make a stormcast list to match thiers

for compeditive play i now use a mix and match of order units and these work fine, there are only a few units in storm cast i tend to use as there are better options in a lot of the other order factions. 

Need to get around to warching some online batreps when i get the chance

Stormcast won Blood and Glory and placed 3rd in the Age of Sigmar heat 1 so I think it's fair to say they have been very powerful. 

I think that while their most powerful list has dropped in power everything else has gone up as a result of the new book so they will still be strong

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8 hours ago, twrightii said:

Three lord Aquillors? Not like that's practical or efficient. 

Ya not nowhere near efficient which is why I'd dint consider it at all lol. I do think the conclave has potential however.

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Alliance is this weekend and there are a few Stomcast players going so we'll see how they preform. Hopefully they do well against nonsense like 21 Kurnoth hunters.

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Vanguard (the point level, not the new chamber) is really hard for Stormcast. We don't have many point efficient units and our heavy hitters require lots of point investment either from bodies or from support units. 

Last night I ran against this:

Banshee (Cursed Book)
Isabella von Carstien
Zombies
Zombies
Mourngul
6 Necropolis Knights (general with +1 to Death save)

Now, 6 snakes in a 1000 point list is essentially just being a ****** (though the dude is really nice, he just loves insane lists), but honestly being unable to shift anything off of a 4x4 table makes the game really frustrating. We played twice, him with the same list and me with a different one in each game.

LCoD (Shielded by Faith)
Venator (Luckstone)
Liberators
Liberators
Liberators
Longstrike Raptors
Longstrike Raptors

I just wanted to try out the Raptors, but this was probably the worst possible list to run them against. -2 Rend against a Mourngul is the sad times, and even blasting off a Knight was worthless thanks to the banner. He just tore through my Liberators as if they weren't there and then walked into my back line. 

Lord-Celestant (Staunch Defender, Armour of Destiny)
Lord-Relictor (Mirrorshield)
Liberators
Liberators
Javelin Prosecutors
Retributors (2 Maces)
Protectors (2 Maces)
Hammerstrike

This did marginally better. I got the T1 charge and the double turn, bringing down his Knights to a single snake, but then he wiped both Paladin units with the Mourngul and the game was over. 

I honestly have no idea how to even beat this list. Maybe 4 Fulminators or Concussors with a Castellant shielding them trying to instagib the snakes and then outlast the Mourngul, but that can be really iffy if you don't get the charge or whiff a roll since it's very all in on one unit. 

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Been trying to determine a list to run for an upcoming 2k tournament without buying new models.  I would like to run the 10 vanguard-hunters I bought in a list but I cant decide what to run.  One of the lists I have come up with is a Hammerstrike force backed by a Thunderhead brotherhood.  Have the alphastrike of the paladins, and the thunderhead brother hood to secure objectives.  How does this look?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: Staunch Defender - Stormcast Eternals
- Artefact: Armour of Destiny 
- Dracoth Trait: Keen-clawed
Knight Venator (120)
- Artefact: Luckstone 
Lord Relictor (80)
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bow
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bow
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
10 x Paladin Protectors (400)
- 4x Starsoul Mace
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)
- 2x Starsoul Mace
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)

Battalions
Hammerstrike Force (120)
Thunderhead Brotherhood (80)

Total: 1980/2000

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1 hour ago, Requizen said:

 

Now, 6 snakes in a 1000 point list is essentially just being a ****** (though the dude is really nice, he just loves insane lists), but honestly being unable to shift anything off of a 4x4 table makes the game really frustrating

a 4x4 table?  That is a huge problem.  The mourngul on a 4x4 would be almost impossible to beat.

 

Edited by chord
Cleaned up quote

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What do you think about this...

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord Castellant (100)
Knight Vexillor (140)
- Meteoric Standard
Knight Heraldor (120)
Lord Aquilor (200)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)

Units
5 x Paladin Protectors (200)
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)

Battalions
Storm Vortex Garrison (100)

Total: 1560/2000
 

Set up Vanguard-Hunters with destroyed paladins.

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