Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[Malakithe]

Ooh geez lol the possibilities...

[Austin]

The new options are great. I don't understand, at all, people who think they have found all the answers on the day a battletome comes out. It will take time, even for the people looking to break the game to win.

I had the opposite reaction to the poster above who was complaining about the Storm Vortex Garrison. I think that battalion looks fun to try. Maybe it won't be the best, but it will give another flavor to my lists.

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

2 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

The new options are great. I don't understand, at all, people who think they have found all the answers on the day a battletome comes out. It will take time, even for the people looking to break the game to win.

I had the opposite reaction to the poster above who was complaining about the Storm Vortex Garrison. I think that battalion looks fun to try. Maybe it won't be the best, but it will give another flavor to my lists.

I agree. I made my first list I plan on using and am already planning fun lists to try because I like the feel of the models in the battalions

[Requizen]

The new options are great. I don't understand, at all, people who think they have found all the answers on the day a battletome comes out. It will take time, even for the people looking to break the game to win.

I had the opposite reaction to the poster above who was complaining about the Storm Vortex Garrison. I think that battalion looks fun to try. Maybe it won't be the best, but it will give another flavor to my lists.

I'm half feeling that one. It seems ok, if you were gonna take those units anyway you pay 100 points more for Battleshock Immune, the single drop, and the artifact. All the units are good and it fills out your Battleline for 2000 if you take an Aquilor as your General. So... pretty good but doesn't add anything huge. Nice themed force, though.

 

I think the Angelos Conclave has potential. Even though the Hunter shooting isn't massively powerful, getting to do it twice in the turn you come in makes it, you know, twice as good.

 

You can combo it with a Lord-Aquilor's Command Trait (two if you use Consummate Commander) to pull off the move repeatedly, giving the Hunters teleporting double shots every turn. Unparalleled mobility, but only moderate damage output with no Rend Damage 1.

 

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[Austin]

44 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I'm half feeling that one. It seems ok, if you were gonna take those units anyway you pay 100 points more for Battleshock Immune, the single drop, and the artifact. All the units are good and it fills out your Battleline for 2000 if you take an Aquilor as your General. So... pretty good but doesn't add anything huge. Nice themed force, though.

 

I think the Angelos Conclave has potential. Even though the Hunter shooting isn't massively powerful, getting to do it twice in the turn you come in makes it, you know, twice as good.

 

You can combo it with a Lord-Aquilor's Command Trait (two if you use Consummate Commander) to pull off the move repeatedly, giving the Hunters teleporting double shots every turn. Unparalleled mobility, but only moderate damage output with no Rend Damage 1.

 

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Yeah its a good tradeoff there on mobility vs damage. The more I read the battletome the more excited I get. You have to make choices...which is awesome.

[BURF1]

The battletome offers a bunch of interesting lists and ways to play that could all be reasonably competitive, you'll see a bunch of wildly different stormcast lists finding some success after this book, the two major issues I can still see coming up are.

1. Flexibility: The number of different styles of lists will grow tons from 'drop on top of them and hope for the best', but within those lists I think you'll be seeing heavy specialization, especially if you try to utilize battalions. Stormcasts are just too expensive for TAC lists. Shooting lists will have a few units of battleline at most for melee, drop lists will have 2/3rds or more of their points dedicated to the alpha strike. Cav lists already have 1500 points locked up just getting bodies on the board. Tossing in a unit of paladins won't work because without their drop they're too expensive and too fragile to bet on a 9" charge, they need the hammerstrike. Vanguard raptors won't be a great splash option because both varieties really need to be in large units to get the most out of them, the cavalry are decent all-rounders but you'll REALLY feel it if any of those units bite the big one.

2. Raw competitiveness. The new list options available are more fun, varied, and interesting than we've had in the past, but I don't think they're quite as good, stormcasts will continue to make people feel bad about themselves in the mid and lower tables but it will be a while before we see a stormcast army top any tournament. We still just can't stand up to the likes of Launchfiends and Thundertusk/Moonclan.

 

Tl:DR stormcasts got more fun but weaker.

[chord]

just noticed the fluff description of the knight azyros still contains the description that they help Sigmar deliver lightning strikes.

 

oops

[Dotification]

AFAIK, GW's peeps did buck 1 trend of the newer BattleTomes, sadly, the ability to selectively "bend" your allegiance a bit.  

How fun would it be to be able to take some Devoted of Sigmar; flagellants, and a Witch Hunter &/or Warrior Priest to help wrangle them??

Once they re-box that lil' faction (War Altar, Flags, Warrior Priest, & Witch Hunter) maybe they could put a new Battalion Formation out in White Dwarf & the app., that lets the Warrior Priest pray for the allied StormBros personally, or via his War Altar . . .

[Blitzel]

Hey all, I can get some cheap stormcast eternals. The part from the starter set and the start collecting box. Now I made a list with those models (1000 points matched play, with scroll builder. I do not know it is yet up to date with the new battle tome).

Anyway, this is what I came up with.

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord Celestant (100)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Strategist - Stormcast Eternals
- Artefact: Hammer of Might 
Lord Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Mirrorshield 
Lord Castellant (100)
- Artefact: Blade of Heroes 
- Mystic Light: Lantern of the Tempest

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)
- 1x Starsoul Mace
6 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (200)
- Celestial Hammers
- 1x Grandhammer

Total: 1000/1000
 

I thought the liberators could be my anvil. The lird relictor and castellant keeping them alive. And the retributors and Lord Celestant crash like the hammers they are. The prossecutors do what they do best (I think). Hunt down backfield support.

When expanding this force I was thinking to add judicators, who set up behind the liberators. Maybe extra retributors and maybe some extra liberators. Also I got a Lord celestant on dracoth left. But I think the Lord-Celestant on foot has a better command ability for this force. Thoughts?

 

[Olincay]

Excuse me if i am being naive, but why are people stating the new tome has nerfed the stormcasts? From what ive noticed only WB is no longer possible because of the Azyros's warscroll change. 

If everyone is relying on one warscroll to make an army *competative* that's just abit sad. 

[Dotification]

31 minutes ago, Blitzel said:

Hey all, I can get some cheap stormcast eternals. The part from the starter set and the start collecting box. Now I made a list with those models (1000 points matched play, with scroll builder. I do not know it is yet up to date with the new battle tome).

Anyway, this is what I came up with.

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord Celestant (100)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Strategist - Stormcast Eternals
- Artefact: Hammer of Might 
Lord Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Mirrorshield 
Lord Castellant (100)
- Artefact: Blade of Heroes 
- Mystic Light: Lantern of the Tempest

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
5 x Paladin Retributors (220)
- 1x Starsoul Mace
6 x Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers (200)
- Celestial Hammers
- 1x Grandhammer

Total: 1000/1000
 

I thought the liberators could be my anvil. The lird relictor and castellant keeping them alive. And the retributors and Lord Celestant crash like the hammers they are. The prossecutors do what they do best (I think). Hunt down backfield support.

When expanding this force I was thinking to add judicators, who set up behind the liberators. Maybe extra retributors and maybe some extra liberators. Also I got a Lord celestant on dracoth left. But I think the Lord-Celestant on foot has a better command ability for this force. Thoughts?

 

I would build the 3 Prosecutors from the Start Collecting with javelins, giving the trident to the Prime of course.

This guy has a nice 1K starting list, check the 1st post out;

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/7531-first-go-with-new-stormcast-battletome/

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, Olincay said:

Excuse me if i am being naive, but why are people stating the new tome has nerfed the stormcasts? From what ive noticed only WB is no longer possible because of the Azyros's warscroll change. 

If everyone is relying on one warscroll to make an army *competative* that's just abit sad. 

Most of Chaos requires sayl to be a top competitive force.

No alpha or deep strike for Chaos really 

And yes, it is depressing seeing khorne rock up with a random wizard as they can't compete otherwise 

[WSDdeloach]

18 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Most of Chaos requires sayl to be a top competitive force.

No alpha or deep strike for Chaos really 

And yes, it is depressing seeing khorne rock up with a random wizard as they can't compete otherwise 

Khorne has possibilities to be competitive w/o sayl. Belacor is always useful. 

 

[chord]

4 hours ago, Dotification said:

AFAIK, GW's peeps did buck 1 trend of the newer BattleTomes, sadly, the ability to selectively "bend" your allegiance a bit.  

How fun would it be to be able to take some Devoted of Sigmar; flagellants, and a Witch Hunter &/or Warrior Priest to help wrangle them??

Once they re-box that lil' faction (War Altar, Flags, Warrior Priest, & Witch Hunter) maybe they could put a new Battalion Formation out in White Dwarf & the app., that lets the Warrior Priest pray for the allied StormBros personally, or via his War Altar . . .

 

Totally agree!!

[Austin]

Especially after reading the fluff in the new book, it would have been great to get a battalion with some Freeguild mixed in. Maybe later!

Has anyone started to think of taking units of Gryph-hounds? They seem too expensive to me, but it might be worth trying a smaller unit of three or four around a Castellant.

[Amradiel]

I don't own any of the Stormcast battletomes. But I'm going to but the new one. And I really like all the new models so I am going to buy them as well. But I wonder which units that would compliment them nicely? 

[Goddin]

Ok, serious SE players, I have been sitting down with the book for the last day and I've come up with a couple of alpha strike lists.  None are as good as WB was, but they seem passable.  Looking for critiques on any and all of them - but don't try and turn it into a shooty list.  I'm still aiming to pin and kill the decisive unit turn 1.

Retributors		440
Protectors		400
Prosecutors		100
Hammerstrike Force		120
Lord Celestant on Dracoth		220
Lord Celestant		100
Judicators		160
Judicators		160
Liberators		100
Lord Veritant		120
Celestial vindicators		80
		2000

Give the Veritant Bless Weapons and Mirrorshield, The LCODw/Tempestos Hammer: Keen-Clawed, Consummate Commander,  Strife-Ender, and The Lord Celestant Quicksilver Draught.

Set up everything in the celestial realm (1 drop due to celestial vindicators) give first turn to opponent.  On your turn roll to bring down prosecutors first, try to bring them down 9 inches away and then bring in the conga protectors and retributors using hammerstrike force.  Bring down all other units you can behind them (LCOD, Celestant, Veritant, Judicators, Libs.)  Shoot away! Charge guaranteed for retributors and protectors, maybe get lucky and get the LCOD, or Celestant in there too.

Hope for double turn.  If so use Speak with your Swords AND Furious Retribution, cast Bless Weapons on whichever paladin unit has more enemies in range.  Shoot away! Move up other heroes in range, destroy everything with Paladins, charge new targets with heroes.  Later rounds use Furious Retribution and the LCOD bubble to prevent losses.

Option 2: Very similar, but bring in the Tempestors:

Protectors		200
Retributors		440
Prosecutors		100
Hammerstrike Force		120
LCOD		220
Tempestors		240
Lord Celestant		100
liberators		100
Judicators		160
Judicators		160
Lord Relictor		80
Celestial Vindicators		80
		2000

Give the Relictor Bless Weapons and Mirrorshield, The LCODw/Tempestos Hammer: Keen-Clawed, Consummate Commander,  Strife-Ender, and The Lord Celestant Quicksilver Draught.  Same strategy as above, but focus on negative to hit for enemies.  Use the tempestors Disruptive Fire and Lord Relictor Lightning Storm to neuter that big threat I couldn't get to on the alpha strike but which will likely pile in or charge if I don't get a double turn. Celestial Vindicators is less useful but still works for single drop setup and getting to pick who goes first.

Something a bit different:

Judicators			160
Judicators			160
Judicators			160
Liberators			100
Liberators			100
Liberators			100
Thunderhead Brotherhood			80
Prosecutors			100
Retributors			440
Protectors			200
Hammerstrike Force			100
Anvils of Heldenhammer			80
Lord Celestant			100
Lord Veritant			120
			2000

Give the Veritant Bless Weapons and Mirrorshield, The LCODw/Tempestos Hammer: Keen-Clawed, Consummate Commander,  Strife-Ender, and The Lord Celestant Quicksilver Draught.

Brings down more shooty than the other 2 lists, loses the possibility of using speak with swords if things are going well, but you keep the immunity to battleshock and the +1 to hit from the Celestant.  If you get lucky, the Retributors get 3 attacks in 2 turns using Heroes of Another Age, as they will be within 8 inches of either the Veritant, LCOD or Celestant at the beginning of turn 2.   

Thoughts?

[BURF1]

8 hours ago, Olincay said:

Excuse me if i am being naive, but why are people stating the new tome has nerfed the stormcasts? From what ive noticed only WB is no longer possible because of the Azyros's warscroll change. 

If everyone is relying on one warscroll to make an army *competative* that's just abit sad. 

Thundertusk, Mourngul, Stormfiends.

[Thebiggesthat]

Naming three things getting hit with the points mallet in GHB 2 there. And I would assume the SE points are already adjusted...

[Björn Broberg]

1 hour ago, Goddin said:

Ok, serious SE players, I have been sitting down with the book for the last day and I've come up with a couple of alpha strike lists.  None are as good as WB was, but they seem passable.  Looking for critiques on any and all of them - but don't try and turn it into a shooty list.  I'm still aiming to pin and kill the decisive unit turn 1.

Retributors		440
Protectors		400
Prosecutors		100
Hammerstrike Force		120
Lord Celestant on Dracoth		220
Lord Celestant		100
Judicators		160
Judicators		160
Liberators		100
Lord Veritant		120
Celestial vindicators		80
		2000

Give the Veritant Bless Weapons and Mirrorshield, The LCODw/Tempestos Hammer: Keen-Clawed, Consummate Commander,  Strife-Ender, and The Lord Celestant Quicksilver Draught.

Set up everything in the celestial realm (1 drop due to celestial vindicators) give first turn to opponent.  On your turn roll to bring down prosecutors first, try to bring them down 9 inches away and then bring in the conga protectors and retributors using hammerstrike force.  Bring down all other units you can behind them (LCOD, Celestant, Veritant, Judicators, Libs.)  Shoot away! Charge guaranteed for retributors and protectors, maybe get lucky and get the LCOD, or Celestant in there too.

Hope for double turn.  If so use Speak with your Swords AND Furious Retribution, cast Bless Weapons on whichever paladin unit has more enemies in range.  Shoot away! Move up other heroes in range, destroy everything with Paladins, charge new targets with heroes.  Later rounds use Furious Retribution and the LCOD bubble to prevent losses.

Option 2: Very similar, but bring in the Tempestors:

Protectors		200
Retributors		440
Prosecutors		100
Hammerstrike Force		120
LCOD		220
Tempestors		240
Lord Celestant		100
liberators		100
Judicators		160
Judicators		160
Lord Relictor		80
Celestial Vindicators		80
		2000

Give the Relictor Bless Weapons and Mirrorshield, The LCODw/Tempestos Hammer: Keen-Clawed, Consummate Commander,  Strife-Ender, and The Lord Celestant Quicksilver Draught.  Same strategy as above, but focus on negative to hit for enemies.  Use the tempestors Disruptive Fire and Lord Relictor Lightning Storm to neuter that big threat I couldn't get to on the alpha strike but which will likely pile in or charge if I don't get a double turn. Celestial Vindicators is less useful but still works for single drop setup and getting to pick who goes first.

Something a bit different:

Judicators			160
Judicators			160
Judicators			160
Liberators			100
Liberators			100
Liberators			100
Thunderhead Brotherhood			80
Prosecutors			100
Retributors			440
Protectors			200
Hammerstrike Force			100
Anvils of Heldenhammer			80
Lord Celestant			100
Lord Veritant			120
			2000

Give the Veritant Bless Weapons and Mirrorshield, The LCODw/Tempestos Hammer: Keen-Clawed, Consummate Commander,  Strife-Ender, and The Lord Celestant Quicksilver Draught.

Brings down more shooty than the other 2 lists, loses the possibility of using speak with swords if things are going well, but you keep the immunity to battleshock and the +1 to hit from the Celestant.  If you get lucky, the Retributors get 3 attacks in 2 turns using  Heroes of Another Age, as they will be within 8 inches of either the Veritant, LCOD or Celestant at the beginning of turn 2.   

Thoughts?

Second list requires lords of the storm to get Heroes of Another Age. Still a "cheap" way to get one drop.

[kozokus]

Did i miss something with the special banner that allow rerolls 1 on run and charge on the Vexillor that allow to reroll all charge rolls anyways?

[Nico]

Quote

AFAIK, GW's peeps did buck 1 trend of the newer BattleTomes, sadly, the ability to selectively "bend" your allegiance a bit.  

Other than Braggoths' Beast Hammer (aka All Da Pigz!), this is pretty much limited to 4 Sylvaneth battalions, which allow a minimal amount of Order units to tag along. They have been rightly careful with these as they can become bonkers strong very quickly. The point it to reward sticking to allegiance over mixing it up.

I think the only thing I thought they might include would have been a Stormcast branded battalion that includes Sylvaneth (the mirror image of the Guardians of Alarielle). There's always scope for pointed battalions to be released on an ad hoc basis as well. 

A Battalion with points that (specifically) buffs the Celestant Prime seems to be an omission - it's a sweet model and should find its way to more tournaments.

[Olincay]

3 hours ago, BURF1 said:

Thundertusk, Mourngul, Stormfiends.

You can gaurentee first drop with scions of the storm, drop in 2x units of the new raptors with long strike cross bows 24" away. Im sure that would nearly drop eveything you aim them at, except the thunder tusk. 

It is still a objective based game, i feel with the new teleporting shenanigans, the new priest and command abilities the new tome is a positive. 

 

[chord]

What about using Lightning Chariot to teleport 10-15 liberators on top of an objective to hold it?

[Requizen]

Thundertusk, Mourngul, Stormfiends.

We're still probably fine against Mournguls. Protectors can still intercept and smash them, and Libs can slow them down.

The other two are more of a problem now for sure. We're weaker against MWs due to not being able to hide from them, and we are a super elite army. However, those are likely to get point hikes and/or changes in GHB2. In the the meantime, though, we can play objective games, and Hammerstrike and Skyborne are still options for Alpha Striking things like that.

People need to actually play games with the book before deciding that anything is OP/UP.

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