Competitive Death - Where do we sit?

[shadowseercB]

Had to edit that, it's 13+ games.

Yeah we considered that, it would make a zombie dragon more tanky.   HAvent ran sacrement yet jus been playing night and blood.  I played one bat swarms are nice but die quickly without a armor save or a ignore dmg since no hq's are around them.

It looks as though sacrament is the way to go with great artifacts and command traits and bonus's to casting.  Ill be playing that for the next several games.

[WoollyMammoth]

Nagash in First Cohort is very competitive

Turn Control
The first major reason for this is control of the turns. You could make First Cohort a  one drop, but I prefer to expand the units to make it 3-4 drop, which is giving you first turn control against most (even competitive) lists. In most cases you always make the opponent go first.

• Best case scenario they move something within 18" of Nagash, giving him lots of opportunities for spells.
• You should know if they are going to ambush and have had deployed 40 skeletons and/or anything else you can to keep Nagash from getting charged but keeping him within 3" to get at least some attacks and possibly a nasty Hand of Dust. As long as nothing catastrophic happens, this leads directly into Nagash being in full range to get all of his spells off in your turn.
• Sometimes your opponent will basically forfeit the first turn, keeping everything out of 18" or Nagash. This only delays the game.
• Its possible that they have insane shooting first turn. If that is the case you still have to let them shoot you first turn because after that you have a great opportunity to give them -1 to hit (possibly -2) and you might get two turns to rip apart their shooting before they can shoot again. 

The reason for making them go first is NOT so you get a double turn. If your opponent wins the turn roll, they will always take the turn. In all my games of AoS I've only ever played one person smart enough to forfeit a double turn. The chances of your opponent choosing to give Nagash a double turn are extremely rare. If I win the initiative, I will give my opponent the first turn in the round.

The reason being that this list has all kinds of tools to negate all damage your opponent has done to a surviving unit, but cannot do anything with a dead unit, so a double turn is the absolute worst case for this list. Giving up the double turn ensures that your opponent never gets one and keeps you at an advantage the entire game.

With staggered turns this reminds me of WHFB VC, where your Invocation would heal all the units back and negate everything your opponent has done. But, unlike WHFB, where your opponent could be smart and have good options for negating your Invocation, now the healing is automatic and there is nothing your opponent can do.

Some games against one drops you will be forced to go first, in which case you can easily summon (I use 40 skeletons and 6 spirit hosts) put them in a good opportunity for a first turn charge, and/or cast double pile in on a unit, and protect Nagash with Mystic Shield. Its not optimal but its not terrible. Best case you get good board control and your opponent does not get the double turn.

First Cohort
Nagash with 2 Morgahst Archai and the battalion is 1200 points alone. Is it worth it? the limitations are having to bring the battalion units and pay the extra 180pt. IMO this battalion is always worth it. The Archai (with halberds) are already +1 attack for being Legion of Nagash, and are the most insane powerhouses, so you want them regardless. 3 deathrattle units are points efficient and you want those too, so there is no down side.  

What about the 180 points for the battalion? You might say, someone can just shoot and kill your Morghast, and then you lose them and the point of your 180 points, so essentially 400 points are lost. But there is much more too it than that.

First off, with huge Nagash base, you can deploy the Archai about 7 1/2 inches from the front of Nagash base (typically deployment line). This is 31.5" from your opponent in standard, which requires a very long threat range which most units in the game cannot reach and even if a unit could get close enough, probably most of their attacks are not close enough. For all melee you can bubble wrap with skeletons. So it is very rare that your Archi are under threat first turn.

Lets say for example, some Skyfires flew across the board and shot at the Morghast first turn.  They shoot at the Archai, who are 4+/6++, or 5+/6++ to all mortals. Let's assume they do kill the Morghast anyway:

• They did not shoot Nagash first turn, so that is probably worth the battalion right away
• You probably already made your opponent go first, which is the key part of the battalion anyway. You are now in control of the turns, so the battalion has earned its points there as well. 
• They have 24" range so they would have to get within 16.5" of Nagash. Next, Nagash takes his turn and those Skyfires are just dead. If for some reason they are not dead after the magic phase he will shoot them, and he will charge them, and they will be at -1 to hit with everything, so even if they somehow survive all of it, they are still mostly neutered. 

So, its not a great situation to lose the Archai of course. But even if you do, its not the end of the world.

NAGASH
The problem with bringing something like Nagash, Glottkin, Archaon, Alarielle, etc. is that they have a huge target on their head. Your opponent will be freaked out by the mere prescience of the model (especially if beautifully painted) and want to shoot/attack it and kill it asap. If they do, Nagash is 2+ re-rolling 1s and Negating about 75% of mortal wounds in this battalion, so this is a good thing. Then, if you do damage him - Nagash has Soul Stealer and Vile Transference, healing up to 12 wounds per turn, even healing the Archai if needed.

Some players are smart enough to 'just ignore' the big bad model. Nagash cannot simply be ignored. He is dishing out insane spells over and over. Through the course of an average game I'm successfully casting 39 spells (maybe one fails a game).

So you can't attack him, and you can't ignore him.

Spells
1-2: I Start out with MS and AB just to get them out of the way.
3: Next I decide the biggest threat and hit them with Overwhelming Dread
4: Typically that unit has -1 bravery, possibly around skeletons/morghast for more -bravery. I pick the lowest bravery unit and cast Soul Stealer.
5-6: Depending on the ranges I'm in i'll cast Vile Transference, even if only for the D3 damage, and Ama. Orb. 
7: I take Fading Vigor on a Necro, which is often useful for Nagash to cast ot lower the damage of a unt.
8: Typically I cast the necros double pile-in, but maybe Hand of Dust if that is an option

At this point I've likely done 3D3-4D3 mortals and possibly D6 to one or more others, and significantly weakened the greatest threats.

Units
Aside from Nagash, you have to choose which Morghast you want to bring. You could go offence and go with harbringers, which give you a lot more flexibility. Regardless of what happens after you roll a 3+ to remove the wound form Nagash, the battalion has done its job. Archi armor is going to further remove 1/3 of any mortals that make it through, but Nagash's armor was already negating half of that. You can't expect to keep the Morgahst near Nagash all the time, there will be times where they need to go get an objective, or be more offensive, and having Harbingers could be a lot more beneficial. Regardless I always go with Archai because this army has its points stretched incredibly thin, and I need to get the most out of them.

With so few bodies, you have to use the 3 skeleton units to get as much as you can. You definitly want 40 skeletons, but maybe only 30 will fit. You can add Black Knights if the points fit. For 'tax' you can bring units of 10 skeletons for objective holders, but I have found 5 graveguard to be incredibly useful instead. In my games I've had my Grave Guard do work. Once they killed 5 liberators trying to assault an objective, killing 4 before they could strike. Ive even had then take down a manticore. Last game, with only 3 of them alive, I stopped a unit of 10 Tree Revenants from getting at my key objective, killing 7 of them and having the rest flee in battleshock. 

I throw in a Necromancer as he gives Nagash two spells. He can hide behind a building, it doesn't matter. I also give him the Grave-Sand Timeglass for this reason as well. The Terrorgheist mantle is also a great choice, if you want to have him moving aggressively with the skeletons. 

I have reduced skeletons to 30 to fit in a Wraith. The reason being, I don't want to miss out on my second artifact. Probably best to keep 40 skeletons, keep the drops at 3 but sacrificing that extra artifact.

6 spirit hosts are absurdly good. Now that they can regen, they are always worth their points. Last game I took one damaged one and brought the unit up to 4 spirit hosts. With Nagash they Reroll 1s, to hit (leading to more mortals) and 1s to save (4+ reroll 1 always). Nagash can also cast the double pile in, and they can be summoned where you need them. I can't imagine a better use of points in this list. 

Healing/Regen
Almost all of my games end with Nagash at full health. he can heal himself and others. you ahve 4 gravesites and the 5+ extra heals for Legion of Nagash. With the battalion he can just add 3, which is typically a free Spirit Host. Skeletons can heal as much as 6D3+3. There is so much healing its pretty crazy if you can keep your units alive.

Raw Power
I've personally never played a list with so much power. I'm killing about 1800 wounds of my opponents in each game. I typically have half my opponents army gone before turn 3.

Limitations
This list could be as small as 5 units. I typically take 7-8. Any battleplan which would not benefit from concentrated power, and requires you to spread out is going to be tough. Scorched Earth can be tough, you have to be aggressive and win fast. If your opponent can just teleport on objectives this will be tough. Its easy to get your opponent off their objective, but tough to protect your own. Generally the insane offence of this list prevails, but winning comes with some hard choices.

There is not a lot of change I could even do to this list, generally I'm interested to just keep playing it and seeing if anyone has an answer. Its not an easy list to play, but it has incredible tools and resilience, so much so that I'm not particularly afraid to go up against anything. 



 

[smucreo]

@WoollyMammoth What list are you running right now? I'm on the fence about buying Nagash but I really want to try First Cohort and I already have 40 skellies, a necro, 10 dogs and 4 angels, and also a wight king and a Mortarch, should I just go for it?

[WoollyMammoth]

@smucreo
Being as how they just FAQ's the First Cohort to work like it should, I would go for it.

I'm running Nagash, 2 Archai, Necro, 40 skeletons, 5 Grave Guard(x2), 6 spirit hosts.

[Sception]

the spirit hosts aren't part of the battalion, nagash does not get auto max healing on them, only his normal d3 with reroll.  That only a 5/9 chance of raising back a spirit host with his deathly invocation, after first healing any injured models in the unit with gravesites or what have you.  Also the formation costs 160 points, not 180.

[smucreo]

I was pondering running Nagash, 4 archai (or even 2 archai and 2 harbingers, with the latter not being part of the battalion), 40 and 10 skellies and 5 black knights and finally a Necro. I'm on the fence about the hosts, how useful have they proved to be? The DI roll could be a bit wonky on them since they are not part of the battalion.

[WoollyMammoth]

@Sception
Thank you for the clarification.

@smucreo
Nagash re-rolls his heals regardless, so that is two chances at a 3. Doesn't really change much. I usually have them near 2 gravesites so that is two more chances at 3s, then another on a 5+, and another near the Necro. I have been playing them aggressively and losing a lot of them, doesn't really matter. Its a battle, things should be dying. Spirit hosts have a really great balance between offence and defense. You could go more aggressive with some Harbringers for example, but they are not summonable so you have even less chance of charging first turn, and they cannot be healed by gravesites, they are not immune to rending and the unit has 6 fewer wounds. One game I summoned the SH as kind of a wall blocking my opponent, which Harbringers are not very good at. You might try dropping them for more skeletons, which would get more bodies on the field. I can't say skeletons are bad. It also gets you fewer drops. I prefer the versatility in mortal wound output that SH have though. Say you are facing an army of 2+ stormcast with staunch defender - no amount of skeletons is going to work out, but this unit of 6 SH, especially with double pile-in, could blow a hole in that army.

[smucreo]

Hm, okay I see your point. Thanks for the answer! I may try Spirit Hosts too. What I still don't like are grave guards haha but I guess I can just run skellies in their place or something... although I may miss out on some damage... argh what to do haha

[Sception]

I generally like running the archai 4 strong instead of 2.  More wounds to soak for Nagash, and makes them a significant offensive hammer as well.  You might even consider 4 harbingers as the first cohort morghasts instead of 4 archai.  Soak wounds for the first turn or so, then any that survive charge forward as your hammer.

That said, 2 archai + 6 hosts is probably better due to summonable utility.  I'd like to use a larger block of grave guard as a summonable hammer instead, one that can actually be part of the formation, but imo they're just too fragile.

[smucreo]

So to fill battleline + battalion requirements you'd just go for 3 units of skellies?

[Sception]

As with Wooly, I like one big unit of skeletons and two little units of skeletons or grave guard.

[Hampshire Hammerers]

4 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Nagash in First Cohort is very competitive

Turn Control
The first major reason for this is control of the turns. You could make First Cohort a  one drop, but I prefer to expand the units to make it 3-4 drop, which is giving you first turn control against most (even competitive) lists. In most cases you always make the opponent go first.

• Best case scenario they move something within 18" of Nagash, giving him lots of opportunities for spells.
• You should know if they are going to ambush and have had deployed 40 skeletons and/or anything else you can to keep Nagash from getting charged but keeping him within 3" to get at least some attacks and possibly a nasty Hand of Dust. As long as nothing catastrophic happens, this leads directly into Nagash being in full range to get all of his spells off in your turn.
• Sometimes your opponent will basically forfeit the first turn, keeping everything out of 18" or Nagash. This only delays the game.
• Its possible that they have insane shooting first turn. If that is the case you still have to let them shoot you first turn because after that you have a great opportunity to give them -1 to hit (possibly -2) and you might get two turns to rip apart their shooting before they can shoot again. 

The reason for making them go first is NOT so you get a double turn. If your opponent wins the turn roll, they will always take the turn. In all my games of AoS I've only ever played one person smart enough to forfeit a double turn. The chances of your opponent choosing to give Nagash a double turn are extremely rare. If I win the initiative, I will give my opponent the first turn in the round.

The reason being that this list has all kinds of tools to negate all damage your opponent has done to a surviving unit, but cannot do anything with a dead unit, so a double turn is the absolute worst case for this list. Giving up the double turn ensures that your opponent never gets one and keeps you at an advantage the entire game.

With staggered turns this reminds me of WHFB VC, where your Invocation would heal all the units back and negate everything your opponent has done. But, unlike WHFB, where your opponent could be smart and have good options for negating your Invocation, now the healing is automatic and there is nothing your opponent can do.

Some games against one drops you will be forced to go first, in which case you can easily summon (I use 40 skeletons and 6 spirit hosts) put them in a good opportunity for a first turn charge, and/or cast double pile in on a unit, and protect Nagash with Mystic Shield. Its not optimal but its not terrible. Best case you get good board control and your opponent does not get the double turn.

First Cohort
Nagash with 2 Morgahst Archai and the battalion is 1200 points alone. Is it worth it? the limitations are having to bring the battalion units and pay the extra 180pt. IMO this battalion is always worth it. The Archai (with halberds) are already +1 attack for being Legion of Nagash, and are the most insane powerhouses, so you want them regardless. 3 deathrattle units are points efficient and you want those too, so there is no down side.  

What about the 180 points for the battalion? You might say, someone can just shoot and kill your Morghast, and then you lose them and the point of your 180 points, so essentially 400 points are lost. But there is much more too it than that.

First off, with huge Nagash base, you can deploy the Archai about 7 1/2 inches from the front of Nagash base (typically deployment line). This is 31.5" from your opponent in standard, which requires a very long threat range which most units in the game cannot reach and even if a unit could get close enough, probably most of their attacks are not close enough. For all melee you can bubble wrap with skeletons. So it is very rare that your Archi are under threat first turn.

Lets say for example, some Skyfires flew across the board and shot at the Morghast first turn.  They shoot at the Archai, who are 4+/6++, or 5+/6++ to all mortals. Let's assume they do kill the Morghast anyway:

• They did not shoot Nagash first turn, so that is probably worth the battalion right away
• You probably already made your opponent go first, which is the key part of the battalion anyway. You are now in control of the turns, so the battalion has earned its points there as well. 
• They have 24" range so they would have to get within 16.5" of Nagash. Next, Nagash takes his turn and those Skyfires are just dead. If for some reason they are not dead after the magic phase he will shoot them, and he will charge them, and they will be at -1 to hit with everything, so even if they somehow survive all of it, they are still mostly neutered. 

So, its not a great situation to lose the Archai of course. But even if you do, its not the end of the world.

NAGASH
The problem with bringing something like Nagash, Glottkin, Archaon, Alarielle, etc. is that they have a huge target on their head. Your opponent will be freaked out by the mere prescience of the model (especially if beautifully painted) and want to shoot/attack it and kill it asap. If they do, Nagash is 2+ re-rolling 1s and Negating about 75% of mortal wounds in this battalion, so this is a good thing. Then, if you do damage him - Nagash has Soul Stealer and Vile Transference, healing up to 12 wounds per turn, even healing the Archai if needed.

Some players are smart enough to 'just ignore' the big bad model. Nagash cannot simply be ignored. He is dishing out insane spells over and over. Through the course of an average game I'm successfully casting 39 spells (maybe one fails a game).

So you can't attack him, and you can't ignore him.

Spells
1-2: I Start out with MS and AB just to get them out of the way.
3: Next I decide the biggest threat and hit them with Overwhelming Dread
4: Typically that unit has -1 bravery, possibly around skeletons/morghast for more -bravery. I pick the lowest bravery unit and cast Soul Stealer.
5-6: Depending on the ranges I'm in i'll cast Vile Transference, even if only for the D3 damage, and Ama. Orb. 
7: I take Fading Vigor on a Necro, which is often useful for Nagash to cast ot lower the damage of a unt.
8: Typically I cast the necros double pile-in, but maybe Hand of Dust if that is an option

At this point I've likely done 3D3-4D3 mortals and possibly D6 to one or more others, and significantly weakened the greatest threats.

Units
Aside from Nagash, you have to choose which Morghast you want to bring. You could go offence and go with harbringers, which give you a lot more flexibility. Regardless of what happens after you roll a 3+ to remove the wound form Nagash, the battalion has done its job. Archi armor is going to further remove 1/3 of any mortals that make it through, but Nagash's armor was already negating half of that. You can't expect to keep the Morgahst near Nagash all the time, there will be times where they need to go get an objective, or be more offensive, and having Harbingers could be a lot more beneficial. Regardless I always go with Archai because this army has its points stretched incredibly thin, and I need to get the most out of them.

With so few bodies, you have to use the 3 skeleton units to get as much as you can. You definitly want 40 skeletons, but maybe only 30 will fit. You can add Black Knights if the points fit. For 'tax' you can bring units of 10 skeletons for objective holders, but I have found 5 graveguard to be incredibly useful instead. In my games I've had my Grave Guard do work. Once they killed 5 liberators trying to assault an objective, killing 4 before they could strike. Ive even had then take down a manticore. Last game, with only 3 of them alive, I stopped a unit of 10 Tree Revenants from getting at my key objective, killing 7 of them and having the rest flee in battleshock. 

I throw in a Necromancer as he gives Nagash two spells. He can hide behind a building, it doesn't matter. I also give him the Grave-Sand Timeglass for this reason as well. The Terrorgheist mantle is also a great choice, if you want to have him moving aggressively with the skeletons. 

I have reduced skeletons to 30 to fit in a Wraith. The reason being, I don't want to miss out on my second artifact. Probably best to keep 40 skeletons, keep the drops at 3 but sacrificing that extra artifact.

6 spirit hosts are absurdly good. Now that they can regen, they are always worth their points. Last game I took one damaged one and brought the unit up to 4 spirit hosts. With Nagash they Reroll 1s, to hit (leading to more mortals) and 1s to save (4+ reroll 1 always). Nagash can also cast the double pile in, and they can be summoned where you need them. I can't imagine a better use of points in this list. 

Healing/Regen
Almost all of my games end with Nagash at full health. he can heal himself and others. you ahve 4 gravesites and the 5+ extra heals for Legion of Nagash. With the battalion he can just add 3, which is typically a free Spirit Host. Skeletons can heal as much as 6D3+3. There is so much healing its pretty crazy if you can keep your units alive.

Raw Power
I've personally never played a list with so much power. I'm killing about 1800 wounds of my opponents in each game. I typically have half my opponents army gone before turn 3.

Limitations
This list could be as small as 5 units. I typically take 7-8. Any battleplan which would not benefit from concentrated power, and requires you to spread out is going to be tough. Scorched Earth can be tough, you have to be aggressive and win fast. If your opponent can just teleport on objectives this will be tough. Its easy to get your opponent off their objective, but tough to protect your own. Generally the insane offence of this list prevails, but winning comes with some hard choices.

There is not a lot of change I could even do to this list, generally I'm interested to just keep playing it and seeing if anyone has an answer. Its not an easy list to play, but it has incredible tools and resilience, so much so that I'm not particularly afraid to go up against anything. 



 

This was fantastic, thank you!

 

[Smavo]

The list I keep looking at is this

Nagash 800

Necro 110

Necro 110

Skeleton Warriors x40 spears 280

Skeleton Warriors x20 blades 160

Skeleton Warriors x20 blades 160

Morghast Archai x2 220

First cohort 160

Total 2000

2 artefacts used and 5 spells from lores

Could also make the 2 units of 20 skellys into 2 units of 10 grave gaurd

[Richelieu]

@WoollyMammoth have any of your opponents attempted to go straight for Nagash and if so, have any succeeded?  Do you think the strength is partially because people are not familiar with how to fight him, or is he just that strong?  

[AverageBoss]

This is the 1st Cohort list I am planning on trying.

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Vile Transference (Vampires)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amaranthine Orb (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Timeglass
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Cairn Wraith (60)
- Artefact: Terrorghiest Mantle
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Grave Guard (80)
- Great Wight Blades
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds
5 x Hexwraiths (160)
5 x Black Knights (120)
The First Cohort (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
 

[WoollyMammoth]

4 hours ago, smucreo said:

Hm, okay I see your point. Thanks for the answer! I may try Spirit Hosts too. What I still don't like are grave guards haha but I guess I can just run skellies in their place or something... although I may miss out on some damage... argh what to do haha

I was just putting in the GG because I had them, I did not expect them to perform so well. I can't believe how well they have been defending objectives. You could just use skeletons for the extra bodies if you just don't like the models. I actually have custom models. 

 

4 hours ago, Sception said:

I generally like running the archai 4 strong instead of 2.  More wounds to soak for Nagash, and makes them a significant offensive hammer as well.  You might even consider 4 harbingers as the first cohort morghasts instead of 4 archai.  Soak wounds for the first turn or so, then any that survive charge forward as your hammer.

That said, 2 archai + 6 hosts is probably better due to summonable utility.  I'd like to use a larger block of grave guard as a summonable hammer instead, one that can actually be part of the formation, but imo they're just too fragile.

I haven't had Nagash anywhere near threatened yet where I think he would need extra Morghast. And the 2 archi have never attacked something that didn't get totally murdered. Maybe against some heavy shooting list it would be nice to have more, but this list is so small I want to fit in as many units as I can.
 

4 hours ago, smucreo said:

So to fill battleline + battalion requirements you'd just go for 3 units of skellies?

This list has 4 battlleine, as Morgahst are battleline too. Its not something you have to worry about. You could take one unit of Black Knights for a deathrattle unit, if you could fit the points. 
 

12 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

@WoollyMammoth have any of your opponents attempted to go straight for Nagash and if so, have any succeeded?  Do you think the strength is partially because people are not familiar with how to fight him, or is he just that strong?  

In most of my games, my opponent tried to damage Nagash, then mostly stopped when they saw what happens. In my last game, my opponent tried to ignore him, and he just walked into their deployment zone, killing everything. 

@AverageBoss
Looks like a nice list.
 

[Major]

I like the Cohort too. I was thinking of fielding something similar. I have a few questions on it below the list.

Nagash - 800
Necro - 110
Necro - 110

2x Morghast Arkai - 220
40x Skeleton Warrioirs (Spears) - 280
20x Skeleton Warriors (Swords) - 160
10x graveguard (Sword/board) - 160

The First Cohort (Battalion) - 160

Total - 2000 points @ 108 wounds on 75 models.

1. In a list and battlion such as this, is it still prudent to take to necromancers with Nagash for healing/res purposes? I mean, 2 of em make this a 3 drop list and not a 1 drop as they arent part of the battalion s not sure if its worth it? 
2. Seeming as Arkai are battleline should I remove the unit of 10 graveguard to pump skeleton Warrior unit to 40?
3. If I dropped 1 Necro and 20 man unit of skellies I could pump Graveguard to max (30) leaving me at 1990 points and a 2 drop.

[Major]

Failing that, there is the 2 drop option if Necros are needed:

Nagash
Necro
4x Arkai
40x Skellie (spears)
30x Skellie (swords)
5x Graveguard (sword/board)

First Cohort

2000 points

[Gotrek]

17 minutes ago, Major said:

I like the Cohort too. I was thinking of fielding something similar. I have a few questions on it below the list.

Nagash - 800
Necro - 110
Necro - 110

2x Morghast Arkai - 220
40x Skeleton Warrioirs (Spears) - 280
20x Skeleton Warriors (Swords) - 160
10x graveguard (Sword/board) - 160

The First Cohort (Battalion) - 160

Total - 2000 points @ 108 wounds on 75 models.

1. In a list and battlion such as this, is it still prudent to take to necromancers with Nagash for healing/res purposes? I mean, 2 of em make this a 3 drop list and not a 1 drop as they arent part of the battalion s not sure if its worth it? 
2. Seeming as Arkai are battleline should I remove the unit of 10 graveguard to pump skeleton Warrior unit to 40?
3. If I dropped 1 Necro and 20 man unit of skellies I could pump Graveguard to max (30) leaving me at 1990 points and a 2 drop.

I'm toying with a similar list.

Nagash 

2 archai

30x skeletons 

30x skeletons

2 necromancers

5 black knights

First cohort. 

Necros protect the skeletons, black knights gum up the enemy line while the skeletons advance and nagash/morghast open up the tin cans

[Lou_Cypher]

What's our gameplan against Daughters of Khaine? 

They seem to be able to close the gap and buff their infantry to rip their way through skeleton blocks.

And their shooting seems designed to pick off our buffers such as Necromancers.

We don't have much shooting of our own to put dents in their numbers and other than magic, what do we do?

[Undeadly]

1 hour ago, Lou_Cypher said:

What's our gameplan against Daughters of Khaine? 

They seem to be able to close the gap and buff their infantry to rip their way through skeleton blocks.

And their shooting seems designed to pick off our buffers such as Necromancers.

We don't have much shooting of our own to put dents in their numbers and other than magic, what do we do?

The same thing we do every night, Arkhan; TRY AND TAKE OVER THE REALMS.

But in seriousness, I think a reasonable counter would for us to play far more aggressively with our units. Legion of Night should be a pretty decent counter, seeing as we can hide our units and pop out to murder them at our leiusure, while our Skeletons are better at taking blows with The Bait.

 

Or just run Nagash+Cohort and Hand of Dust Morthai away.

[Josh]

just been playing around with lists and i think im going to work on this one

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Vile Transference (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Cairn Wraith (60)
Cairn Wraith (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
60 x Zombies (320)
4 x Morghast Archai (440)
- Spirit Halberds
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

Total: 1960 / 2000
 

zombies are there to hang out & protect rear board edge/ objective sitter and or chaff
2 dire wolves for objective sitters

hammers are archai & spirit hosts with double pile in

wraiths are cheap baby sitters for hammers & can be choppy with horde units

necros do their thing

arkhan does his thing with 1 unit of dire wolves acting as bubble wrap or for the archai to fight over

I personally think its reasonably equipped to work in most scenarios

[Ashtyn]

8 hours ago, Josh said:

just been playing around with lists and i think im going to work on this one

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)
- General
- Lore of the Dead: Vile Transference (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (110)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
Cairn Wraith (60)
Cairn Wraith (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
60 x Zombies (320)
4 x Morghast Archai (440)
- Spirit Halberds
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)

Total: 1960 / 2000
 

zombies are there to hang out & protect rear board edge/ objective sitter and or chaff
2 dire wolves for objective sitters

hammers are archai & spirit hosts with double pile in

wraiths are cheap baby sitters for hammers & can be choppy with horde units

necros do their thing

arkhan does his thing with 1 unit of dire wolves acting as bubble wrap or for the archai to fight over

I personally think its reasonably equipped to work in most scenarios

How do you find sacrament without the battalion?

I've noticed how dependent I've become on multiple spells per turn and am terrified of moving away from it.

[Josh]

11 hours ago, Ashtyn said:

How do you find sacrament without the battalion?

I've noticed how dependent I've become on multiple spells per turn and am terrified of moving away from it.

i think the batallion makes you play a specific way which leaves you open to being countered easier, its good but imo doesnt reduce your drops enough to make a big difference

i think i need to play some more games with this list to see

but i feel the new list is more balanced to deal with things in matched play

[Major]

I want to see The First Cohort hitting tables and winning. It is so awesome.