Matched Play

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

I would just like a few clarifications if anyone has access to the General's Handbook:

Do you need to deploy three separate Battleline units for 2000 points or just the amount? For example 3x5 Vulkite Berserkers or 1x15.

Do all abilities that bring on extra models count as summoning?

Feel free to ask your own questions and I'll add them and answers to the original post if required.

[HobbyHammer]

Needs to be 3 separate battle line units.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

Cheers, I wasn't sure on that. Another question:

Are command traits and artefacts written as part of your list or are they chosen at the start of each game? In a tournament for example.

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[Veterannoob]

Yup, but a good question to ask. We discussed at GW store from the book.

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

Cheers, I wasn't sure on that. Another question:

Are command traits and artefacts written as part of your list or are they chosen at the start of each game? In a tournament for example.

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I believe its on a per game basis similar to 40k warlord traits. YOu pick if you roll it or pick it.

[WoollyMammoth]

You must have 3 independent battleline units to play a 2000 point game. You cannot count one unit as more that one unit for any reason. The only exception is zombies who could start as 3 units and combine to one in the first hero phase, but they still have to start as 3 units.

Any spell that adds a new unit is summoning. If you add a new unit using any ability, you must have a "pool" of unused models to pull from. If you have nothing in your pool, the spell or ability goes off and essentially does nothing.

Example: Summoning spells, Engine of the Gods, Gaunt Summoner, etc.

Any spell or ability that adds models to an existing unit is unrestricted and may add 'free' models, but the unit may not increase beyond the number of models it had to start the game.

Example: Skeletons healing D6 models each turn, the spell to add a models to a unit of Tomb Scorpions, etc.

The wording on Artefacts is that after you pick your general, you then pick a hero, and pick an Artefact. This sounds like a per game thing though tournaments will probably specify. 

 

[Gorthor21]

I was confused about what it meant with the battline units.  Does it mean say if a units maximum size is 30 that you can only have 30 or that model  in your army or did it just mean that is how you pay for the units?

[Shane]

That single unit size cannot exceed 30 models. 

You can have more than one unit. 

 

E.g. If the max unit size is 30 you could have three units of thirty a piece. 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

Any spell that adds a new unit is summoning. If you add a new unit using any ability, you must have a "pool" of unused models to pull from. If you have nothing in your pool, the spell or ability goes off and essentially does nothing. 

Everything you said sounds good to me, although with this one I just want to clarify that you don't need a "pool" like with SCGT or Clash. You may bring on any models you are able to through summoning or ability using models from your collection. This can include using units which have been previously removed from the game.

The massive upside to this is that it allows people with smaller collections to play against someone with a larger collection without requiring to play a smaller game.

[Tommy]

56 minutes ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

The massive upside to this is that it allows people with smaller collections to play against someone with a larger collection without requiring to play a smaller game.

Never thought of that before, that's actually brilliant. Even if it wasn't intended in the design it's a great side-effect.

[WoollyMammoth]

I don't have the exact summoning rules (GH is still 3 weeks out) but as Ben Curry describes them:

1. You work out your full list.
2. You deploy only the models you want, keeping some aside to summon.
3. During the game you cast your summon spells/abilities and take models from your army which aren't yet deployed. 

I did read the rules back and fourth, the only nuance I noticed was that you don't have to declare the models that aren't on the table. So if you have a bloodthirster, a LoC, or just a bunch of Daemonettes, is not known to your opponent and you can keep this a secret.

I was reading the rule (local stores have the book) because I was looking to see if you could summon units, but this is not the case. You can only summon as described on the scroll and as such, summoning hordes is not really possible (other than Nagash). Summoning monsters, cavalry and monstrous infantry type things can be a powerful tactic, but in the case of skeletons you generally want 30+ but you are limited to 10 at a time (or 20 if you get lucky).

The way I used to play, I could 'pay for' say 20 grave guard and summon the entire unit as an ambush technique, but this is not the case in Matched Play.

I don't really know the nuance, maybe you don't have to make a list and just have a pool of "points" to summon from where you can summon anything but I kind of hope not because this means you have to have every summonable unit on hand to be able to summon exactly what you might need. The rules as Ben lists them make more sense because:

A. You could theoretically not have to start with your BL units on the board and add them to your pool instead since either way they are in your list.
B. Clarifies allegiance in that everything on your list, summoned or no, has to have the allegiance keyword. (No claiming Nurgle then summoning a Bloodthirster)
C. You can bring only your list of X points, and not fill your bag with (and/or have to own) everything that's possible to summon.

I could see you theoretically using your 'unused points' to pay for your dead units to bring them back. This may be a bit of a house rule but I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it. Tactically this is a bit limiting but it is a nice way to play with someone who doesn't have enough points, however I would suggest playing more 1000p games or even 500p so they understand how the game works before going into big 2000+ games.

Its only natural to try and figure out that trick or bend the rule to get that super combo or exploit going. The rules are like shackles and everyone is trying to find that key to get their hands loose and have the advantage. Really we should just be enjoying the game. Matched is for people who like playing with strict rules, if you don't like rules then there is open play. 

Honesty I don't care what my opponent does as long as they have paid the points for everything they are going to summon. AoS is actually a lot more about tactics than list building. If some nurgle guy wants to summon a bloodthirster, or some undead player has a box of 4000k points they are ready to pull anything out of, I have confidence that my tactics will prevail over their attempt to exploit the game. Personally I'm just going to focus on making straightforward lists and just trying to use good tactics.