Updating Ironjawz

[Zambo]

If you’re an existing Ironjawz player, all your allegiance abilities, artefacts, command traits and warscroll battalions will be making the transition to the new edition intact in the latest edition of the General’s Handbook, with a variety of tweaks to points and some rules designed to make your army more balanced and more fun to play

I'm hoping the tweaks mentioned in the faction focus that will make a real difference in how IJ’s compete n make sense in the current meta will be 

1. Weirdnob miscast on nearest unit other than himself 

2. Command abilities lasting til next hero phase as per everyone else 

3. Rewrite of mighty destroyers so you get to choose which buff to take 

4. Mega boss included in brute fist and iron fist to make the best greenskin model since this chap more relevant 

 

[Lysandestolpe]

5 hours ago, Zambo said:

If you’re an existing Ironjawz player, all your allegiance abilities, artefacts, command traits and warscroll battalions will be making the transition to the new edition intact in the latest edition of the General’s Handbook, with a variety of tweaks to points and some rules designed to make your army more balanced and more fun to play

I'm hoping the tweaks mentioned in the faction focus that will make a real difference in how IJ’s compete n make sense in the current meta will be 

1. Weirdnob miscast on nearest unit other than himself 

2. Command abilities lasting til next hero phase as per everyone else 

3. Rewrite of mighty destroyers so you get to choose which buff to take 

4. Mega boss included in brute fist and iron fist to make the best greenskin model since this chap more relevant 

All good points! 

Additionally, I am very keen if they will change the rule for Gore Gruntas to "When gore grunts charge, the mounts cause D3 damage rather than the regular 1." They are already known as Ardboys on pigs, not Brutes on pigs. Other than that, they can remain the same. They don't necessarily need the brute re-roll hit rules. 

5. MAKE THEIR CHARGE VIABLE!  

[Soul oWar]

Maybe they can put it that you need a total of 8 or more on the roll and not the real distance charged...

[Warboss Gorbolg]

From a hobby point of view, the lack of a Leader on gore grunta as well as the lack of an Ardboys leader really bothers me, and makes the IJ pretty "one dimensional" from a "build your own narrative " perspective . I can't help but look at the Fyreslayers' abundance of leaders and wonder what kind of design process each faction went through.

[Malakree]

9 minutes ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

From a hobby point of view, the lack of a Leader on gore grunta as well as the lack of an Ardboys leader really bothers me, and makes the IJ pretty "one dimensional" from a "build your own narrative " perspective . I can't help but look at the Fyreslayers' abundance of leaders and wonder what kind of design process each faction went through.

You can tell it's a generational thing. The newer the battletome the more complete it is. 

We were one of the first and unlike SC we didn't get a 2.0

[Richelieu]

48 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said:

All good points! 

Additionally, I am very keen if they will change the rule for Gore Gruntas to "When gore grunts charge, the mounts cause D3 damage rather than the regular 1." They are already known as Ardboys on pigs, not Brutes on pigs. Other than that, they can remain the same. They don't necessarily need the brute re-roll hit rules. 

5. MAKE THEIR CHARGE VIABLE!  

I think this is something that could do, but of all the IJ units I think gore gruntas are the most appropriately priced.  I can't think of a single other cavalry unit that has a wound per point value above 0.1 and that's with a 4+ save.  

[Sangfroid]

17 hours ago, Malakree said:

Imagine an Orruk the size of a megaboss but with overlapping plates over their entire body, a hand forged full plate ensemble. Instead of the standard "Ironjaw" the jaw plates go over the entire of their head and overlap forming a setup like the one maximus uses in gladiator. The plates on both forearms are much larger, equal or greater than the shields Ardboyz use with serrated edges and wicked points. 

A Brute Boss gone nuts with the plates, some using the claws others having hackers literally welded to his arm-guards. Units of 3(+), on Megaboss size bases.

Totes not overtuned!

I love this and want to know how you can make your own warscrolls, 

I had in mind something more like @Lysandestolpe said for the defensive ones, huge Pavis/tower shields as big as they are wiv a massive spike on them (could even be sculpted around the chest plates of stardrakes as if they have taken one of the beasts down.)

4 or 5 wounds each I think is probably the sweet spot unless they are to be fielded in units of 2. 

Bravery needs to be 7 

Choppa 4a 3/3/-1/1 

shield spike 1a 3/2/-2/d3 

Wall of Iron/ mega guard: cover save to ironjawz units wholly within 6” of a unit of Megabrutes, additionally the Megabrutes unit receives a 5++ in the combat phase 

Iron juggernauts: the Megabrutes charge is so devastating that on a 4+ all enemy units within 3” after they make a successful charge move are -1 to hit until their next hero phase 

for offensive version I could see them armed with Giant Gore hackas

Giant gore hackas 4a 3/3/-2/2 

might is right: all ironjawz units within 6” (note not wholly within) at the start of any combat phase can reroll failed wound rolls as they step up their game to not be outshone by the big un’s taking all the glory 

Eager for the fight: when they run or charge roll an extra dice and discard one (players choice) in addition if a double is used for a successful charge move wound rolls of a natural 6 cause 1 mortal wound in addition to any other damage 

 

great thoughts though guys a dual kit for me gives GW more material to work with and more sales (as we would all want multiples of each unit option) plus we want 2 viable options ourselves for variety 

p.s points cost should be 200-240 maximum for 3 (assuming 4 or 5 wounds each) 

 

[Skabnoze]

9 hours ago, Zambo said:

4. Mega boss included in brute fist and iron fist to make the best greenskin model since this chap more relevant 

 

The Brian Nelson orc sculpts are still some of my all-time favorites along with the Kev Adams goblins.  Personally, that orc shaman I would put up amongst the best sculpts that GW has ever made in any of their model ranges.

I enjoy dynamic action poses on models,but some of the best ever models in just about any mini ranges have more static non-combat poses.  When done right you can just ooze character out of poses like this.

[Malakree]

@Sangfroid https://runebrush.pa-sy.com//warscroll/

I went for a tank version of brutes rather than support/damage. The low hit/rend/damage is based around the idea they are so heavily armoured they have trouble catching or seriously sounding foes. However as the opponents armour becomes heavier they get more able to grab them, pin them down and use their size/weight to their advantage.

Also checks the current save not the base save so they are amazing against units trying to stack save buffs. That said it never gets to The point where The opponent gaining +1 to their save actually reduces what they need to roll. Transitioning from 3+ to 2+ would still give a save of 5+ but the damage goes up from 2 to 3.

The low number of attacks (6 on a block of 3) is terrible for a model on a megaboss base size but that's to emphasize getting them into the right target while not going over the brute territory of high damage. What they will do though is rip a stardrake to bits of the opponent let's them get on it with a couple of buffs.

I'd also extend the megabosses reroll 1s to keyword bold brutes which would include these.

 

The shooting attacks/phase is the idea that their weapon are literally massive plates grafted to their forearms so when they are moving forward they form their own personal testudo.

I then needed a weakness a d having them be slow as hell seemed right, adding the megaboss on foot parts was giving a way to nullify that at a price, it also thematically gives you an honour guard type unit letting the megabytes function as a retinue of sorts.

 

Against something like dok they would be awful, against that 1+ drake though you're potentially doing 12 attacks hitting on 4a rr 1s with 2+/-3/3 that's scarier than an mk!

So yeah, a tool we don't have with tradeoffs and solid counterplay chances for the opponent. Add in a duel kit for your damage/support variants and oh man so good!!!

[Ollie Grimwood]

How about an Ironjawz artillery piece called a Brute Chukka that has a shooting attack like this:

At the start of the shooting phase remove one model from a Brute unit within 3” of the Brute Chukka .This model now counts as its own unit of one model and does not count as killed for the purpose of Battleshock. Roll a dice and apply the result below 

1- Zoggin hell, the Brute if thrown into an empty patch of the battlefield but lands poorly or collides with part of the scenery, messily detonating in a cloud of blood and ironplates. Remove the model as a casualty

2-5 Jobs a good en, place the brute anywhere on the battlefield within 24” of the Brute Chukka and  3” away from  enemy models. The Brute may move and charge as normal. 

6 Waaagh, the Brute smashes into the Enemy like an Iron meteor. Remove the Brute and choose an enemy unit with 24”. This unit take D6 mortal wounds. 

 

[Zambo]

8 hours ago, Lysandestolpe said:

 

Additionally, I am very keen if they will change the rule for Gore Gruntas to "When gore grunts charge, the mounts cause D3 damage rather than the regular 1." They are already known as Ardboys on pigs, not Brutes on pigs. Other than that, they can remain the same. They don't necessarily need the brute re-roll hit rules. 

5. MAKE THEIR CHARGE VIABLE!  

Yep that would be awesome but at 140 PST probably not going to happen think just the natural roll of an 8 triggering ability is the best we can hope for, until GW give us that mega boss/warchanter on GG kit that’s gotta come sooner or later. ! 

[Lysandestolpe]

7 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I think this is something that could do, but of all the IJ units I think gore gruntas are the most appropriately priced.  I can't think of a single other cavalry unit that has a wound per point value above 0.1 and that's with a 4+ save.  

Mighty Skullcrushers are at 140pts with two less attacks on rider and steed, but with a magic save against mortal wounds and D3 mortal wounds on the charge. I'd say Gruntas are not better than that  

[Ollie Grimwood]

28 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said:

Mighty Skullcrushers are at 140pts with two less attacks on rider and steed, but with a magic save against mortal wounds and D3 mortal wounds on the charge. I'd say Gruntas are not better than that  

Gore Gruntas have a much higher damage potential than Mighty Skull Crushers 15 vs 8 however the Gruntas are never going to do that where as the Skull Crushers will probably get close. It’s not just the convoluted Grunta Charge it’s that it’s coupled with 4 to hit and 4 to wound.  Mighty Skullchrushers are one of my favourite units Goregruntas are one of my least. 

[Richelieu]

19 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Gore Gruntas have a much higher damage potential than Mighty Skull Crushers 15 vs 8 however the Gruntas are never going to do that where as the Skull Crushers will probably get close. It’s not just the convoluted Grunta Charge it’s that it’s coupled with 4 to hit and 4 to wound.  Mighty Skullchrushers are one of my favourite units Goregruntas are one of my least. 

Average damage from the two units is identical vs a 4+ save (4.5 for the gores, 3.5+a mortal for the skullcrushers) and that's assuming the skullcrushers get their charge ability and the Gore gruntas do not.  I don't think your perception is in alignment with reality.  

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Lysandestolpe said:

Mighty Skullcrushers are at 140pts with two less attacks on rider and steed, but with a magic save against mortal wounds and D3 mortal wounds on the charge. I'd say Gruntas are not better than that  

I prefer the damage output over the situational defensive ability, particularly on a unit that already has a high wound per point value.  I was not aware skullcrushers were 140 though, always thought they were 160, thanks!

[Ollie Grimwood]

10 hours ago, Richelieu said:

Average damage from the two units is identical vs a 4+ save (4.5 for the gores, 3.5+a mortal for the skullcrushers) and that's assuming the skullcrushers get their charge ability and the Gore gruntas do not.  I don't think your perception is in alignment with reality.  

Thanks Sheldon. So you agree that Gore Gruntas are unlikely to live up to their potential damage wise? Yes my perception of Blood Chrushers is formed from more than just one factor, use of the Brass Stampede, synergies available and how useful mortal wounds are (especially how they can more than one unit at a time) add to them but this isn’t a Mighty Skullchrusher discussion. My reality is that I can lots out Skullchrusher but I can’t get much out of Gore Gruntas 

[kenshin620]

Yea I think thats one of the big differences of gores vs skullcrushers, SC come with a whole bunch of buffs whereas IJ have the megaboss command and the warchanter and possibly any allied greenskinz. Hopefully the shamans get either lore of beasts buff or lore of waaagh buff.

[Sangfroid]

Couldn’t work out how to export the pdf on my iPad but here’s the result in photos (have to say I had a lot of fun dreaming here and this warscroll maker will be used again ?) 

[Iradekhorne]

22 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

Thanks Sheldon. So you agree that Gore Gruntas are unlikely to live up to their potential damage wise? Yes my perception of Blood Chrushers is formed from more than just one factor, use of the Brass Stampede, synergies available and how useful mortal wounds are (especially how they can more than one unit at a time) add to them but this isn’t a Mighty Skullchrusher discussion. My reality is that I can lots out Skullchrusher but I can’t get much out of Gore Gruntas 

I used brass stampede yesterday, and they doesnt do so much, i was vs 60 vulkites and 30 heatguard berzerkers, my skullcrushers dont killed him in 3 turns and he managed for kill me 4 units of juggers, and the mighty lord.if the enemy are so resilent they cant do so much for the lack of rend, but i see a game with 18 gore gruntas + godrakk vs the same, my friend managed to kill 30 vulkites in one turn (flr the brsvery) then chargued with godrakk command hability, he wiped the 30 hratguard+magmadroth in one turn. the rival just give him the game.

The point is, the pigs can have buffs also, have rend, cost the same and in units lf 6 they are like a brutes, but with double speed ^^

[Ollie Grimwood]

4 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

I used brass stampede yesterday, and they doesnt do so much, i was vs 60 vulkites and 30 heatguard berzerkers, my skullcrushers dont killed him in 3 turns and he managed for kill me 4 units of juggers, and the mighty lord.if the enemy are so resilent they cant do so much for the lack of rend, but i see a game with 18 gore gruntas + godrakk vs the same, my friend managed to kill 30 vulkites in one turn (flr the brsvery) then chargued with godrakk command hability, he wiped the 30 hratguard+magmadroth in one turn. the rival just give him the game.

The point is, the pigs can have buffs also, have rend, cost the same and in units lf 6 they are like a brutes, but with double speed ^^

An interesting anecdote however I’d point out: 

At the point levels of those Fyreslayers are you could have had 3 units of 6 Juggers each doing D6 mortal wounds to every unit within an 1” of the charging unit (and that can be quite a lot) and if your Mighty Lord is your general you can do a few more as well.  I would have expected you to be having much more success, depending on the circumstances of course.  I only run a minimum strength one and it’s never let me down. 

I don’t doubt Gore Gruntas can have their day my original point was that they pay for a massive damage potential that they are very unlikely to achieve but it is still there .  SkullChrushers get to do Mortal wounds a whole lot more which is better.  Gore Gruntas only do one more attack per model with rend over BloodGlaives. I’m sure your friend did manage some success with that set up but let’s face it the key ingredient is Gordrakk who is doing all the heavy lifting and would account for 2/3s of it and he and the a Gorefist battalion without units costs as much as basic Brass Stampede that’s already ready to 

But taking it back on track surely you gotta feel that Gore Gruntas are seriously underwhelming even when the stars align and the Gore Grunta Charge comes off it’s 4+ 4+ and no rend which means it’s a bit of a nothing and really disappointing. Yes they do add much needed speed to a generally slow Army and they can tar pit units but they aren’t Wolfboys they’re supposed to be Elite Brutes riding what is supposed to be a crossbreed between a Boar and a Dinosaur. 

[Hawkeye]

I seriously hope GW have taken note of this for Aos 2

[Malakree]

It's nice when you go back and read something ages ago and you still feel like it makes sense/was solid.

One addition I would make is to change "Prophet of the Waaagh!" with the recent command abilities thing.

Quote

Prophet of the Waaagh!
When your general activates his Waaagh! ability all other Megabosses and Warbosses also activate their Waaagh! abilities. Instead of resolving them as normal count the number of Ironjawz (or Orruks if it is a Warbosses) within range of all of the heroes.

Roll a D6 and Add 1 for each Megaboss or Warboss other than the general, if it is less than the number of units then each such unit gets +1 to their attacks with all melee weapons until the next combat phase, on a 6 or more add 2 to their attacks instead, on a 10 or more instead add 3 to their attacks.

It adds a cool dynamic where distant parts of your army can still benefit from the General's Waaagh! as long as there is another Megaboss (Or Warboss) with that force. I think it would be an awesome way of having the lesser Megabosses (especially the footboss) really act as lieutenants and bring the whole army together into a single force in a way that is amazingly thematic.

The reason I added "Warboss" as well is because it is twofold, it makes them a solid allies option but it also acts to stop the stupid "take different Megabosses and cross Waaagh". Essentially rolling all Waaagh! command abilities together, giving you a good advantage for it, while saving command points.

Thematic, a solid list building tool and preemptively acts to stop/mitigate some horrendous abuses!

[Ollie Grimwood]

@Malakree that’s really good, big fan of the cinematic of all the Warbosses combining their Waaagh together

[TheMuphinMan]

My take on Shield MegaBrutes

Orruk Shield Sluggas
8 bravery/5 wounds/3+ save/4" move
Smashin Shield 3/6+/3+/-3/d3

Fast means red:
Every orruk knows that if you make something red it moves faster so a bloody shield means you rammed them hard
If you roll an 8 or more for a charge roll for a unit of Orruk Shield Sluggas,  for each  model in the unit roll a dice for each enemy model within 1" of that model. On a 3+ the enemy model's unit suffers one mortal wound as it is either impaled on the Shield's spikes or sandwiched between multiple shields. 

Shields made for smashin:
The shield sluggas' shields allow them to shrug off even the most devastating hits as long as they have their shields ready to block them.
whenever an orruk shield slugga unit suffers a wound or mortal wound, roll a dice, on a 5+ that wound or mortal wound is ignored. However, if a unit of shield slugga's is chosen to pile in attack, they lose this bonus for the remainder of the turn.

He's still standin:
Nothing gives more pride to a unit of shield sluggas than seeing how many injuries they can withstand without falling.
Add 1 to the hit rolls of a unit of shield sluggas' smashin shields for each damage living models in the unit have suffered. 

Also, of in the battleshock phase if a model has suffered 4 damage, friendly orruk units within 12" of the model do not need to take battleshock test as they are too distracted by the site of that proud warrior to think about running away

[Sangfroid]

Good stuff guys let’s keep this a rollin.  Be nice to add some flavour to Ironjawz characters so thought about these 3 rules to add to our 3 characters (p.s I know this is a silly/fun exercise indulge yourselves ?)

the two headed god Gorkamorka is always present whispering in the ears of his chosen champions. in each hero phase roll a 6:

megaboss/Megaboss on Mawkrusha 

1: Morks voice is loudest and breaks thru the din of the battle. The Megaboss  is gifted with a flash of Kunnin, the Megaboss can retreat and charge this turn. 

2-5 nothing happens either the din of battle is too loud or else the Megaboss is too belligerent too listen to good sense

6: Gorks voice reverberates inside the Megaboss head, ignoring everything else the Megaboss needs to get Krumpin, the Megaboss can run and charge this turn and gets to reroll all failed hits in the combat phase (does not effect the mount) 

 

weirdnob shaman: 

1: mork temporarily imbues the shaman with foresight, you can reroll failed casting rolls for this shaman for this hero phase

2-5 nothing happens the waaagh energy from the ladz is drowning out everything

6: Gork is here! The waagh energy has manifested Gork himself, the shaman can choose too immediatly attempt to cast Foot of Gork and in addition to its normal casting cost of 10 any roll of a double will count as a result of 10 (for the purpose of dispel) however if the shaman fails to cast he suffers a mortal wound. Note this does not prevent the shaman from casting Arcane bolt or mystic shield later in the hero phase

warchanter: 

1 mork sees the danger where mortals do not, all units that are wholly within 10” of the Warchanter in the subsequent movement phase count all run rolls as a 6

2-5 nothing happens the beat of the waagh is all the Warchanter hears

6 Gork provides the tune, the Warchanter beats increase in their urgency all ironjawz units wholly within 10” of the Warchanter at the start of the combat phase can reroll 1s to wound.