First game against stormcast, have some questions

[Adeeb]

Hey guys, 

Just played my ironjawz versus a stormcast list and got destroyed by all the mortal wound output. Had a question about how my opponent's army was working

Can the blessed weapons prayer be cast twice by two different lord relictors? And if you roll a 6, which generates an additional attack, can the additional attack generate additional attacks? Like a never ending chain as long as you roll 6s. This was leading to him doing a ton of mortal wounds on some of my units with his two units of retributors buffed by blessed weapons and lord celestant command ability. 

 

 

[Aezeal]

I don't know about the prayers, but in matched play additional attacks never generate new attacks.

[Adeeb]

Thanks! 

[Deathpoke]

As far as i'm aware there is nothing stopping two PRIESTS from casting the same PRAYER in the same turn, however blessed weapons is a 4+ so should on average only get 1 through per turn.

[Aezeal]

5 hours ago, Deathpoke said:

As far as i'm aware there is nothing stopping two PRIESTS from casting the same PRAYER in the same turn, however blessed weapons is a 4+ so should on average only get 1 through per turn.

But can it stack?

[Marc Wilson]

Hi - yep can be used twice / can stack. Not on additional attacks as stated above.

[Siorra]

3 hours ago, Marc Wilson said:

Hi - yep can be used twice / can stack. Not on additional attacks as stated above.

How does that work then? Roll a 6+ and get 2 additional attacks?

[Marc Wilson]

Roll one 6 get an additional attack, roll two 6's get two additonal attacks.

[WoollyMammoth]

I was almost certain that prayers would be limited like spells in GH2, but they were not. This leaves prayers as a sort of magic that's better than magic because it can be duplicated, stacked and cannot be dispelled.

Per the stormcast battletome, every Relictor has his lightning and one additional prayer, so hes a 80 point wizard with two 'prayers' and his own 'prayer lore' that cannot be dispelled and a 3+ natural save. I love my Relictors but, come on.

There are no limitations on prayers so two Relictors can use Blessed Weapons in the same turn. Each Roll of 6 will generate 2 extra attacks. With a Lord-Celestant Command Ability, that's mortals on 5+ generating two more attacks each. 

The good thing is that Bless Weapons is on a 4+ and is generally hard to pull off. Retributors are going to want to be in the action, striking down behind the lines or directly into combat via Hammerstrike Force. A Relictor only moves 4" and the prayer requires 12". Its quite difficult for a Relictor to get into position. Then, even if he does, its a 50/50 chance that it will even go off.

It sounds like you were in a position where, either he got all his things to strike down at the same time, then he got all his prayers off, then made key long charges. Obviously sometimes the dice gods pick one side to win. Otherwise, you have plenty of time to start taking out the pieces of this list before it can get set up. A lot of Stormcast players go all-in on this Retributor sucker-punch kind of list and, as soon as they lose 2-3 Retributors or a key piece like the Lord-Celestant, they don't know what to do with themselves. Some of the more successful Stormcast lists lately have not even taken Retributors. 

 

[Siorra]

38 minutes ago, Marc Wilson said:

Roll one 6 get an additional attack, roll two 6's get two additonal attacks.

Do you mean the second Bless Weapon works on the rerolls or do you think Bless Weapon will only benefit one roll of 6+ for a unit? EIther way I don't think that's right.

The way I read it, you either get 2 extra attacks on a 6+ for the unit, or it doesn't work past one. Thinking it like a buff in an video game, the buff either stacks, causing 2 extra attacks, or it "refreshes", effectively replacing the first one cast. In all honesty to save confusing with your opponent, I would just cast it on another unit if the first is succesful. I was always under the impression is was the latter option and you take 2 as a failsafe on the 4+ roll.

[Marc Wilson]

You don't get an extra shot if you roll a 6 on your extra shot. The extra shots on 6s only apply for the original dice you throw.

[ledha]

38 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I was almost certain that prayers would be limited like spells in GH2, but they were not. This leaves prayers as a sort of magic that's better than magic because it can be duplicated, stacked and cannot be dispelled.

 

 

Yeah, but spells have a much better range, are generally easier to cast (a 3+/4+ on one dice is not as easy as 5/6/7 on two dice) and they can be improved by several ways (items, buff, commander aura, terrain, etc) to the point of giving some armies nothing short of auto-casting. And the two general spells (mystic bolt and mystic shield) mean that a spellcaster will always have something very useful to do, unlike the priest who are a bit more limited

[Naflem]

On 11/9/2017 at 10:57 AM, Marc Wilson said:

You don't get an extra shot if you roll a 6 on your extra shot. The extra shots on 6s only apply for the original dice you throw.

That’s correct, and if you need to explain why to your opponent, it’s one of the 5 “rules of one” for matches play in the generals handbook.  

[kozokus]

On 09/11/2017 at 5:22 PM, WoollyMammoth said:

This leaves prayers as a sort of magic that's better than magic because it can be duplicated, stacked and cannot be dispelled.

Debatable.

Most prayers (lets'say SCE, Pestilens and Khorne) Have crappy range, low succes chance and for the most part, tend to be less destructive than most spells.

Prayers are cast most of the time on 4+ (50% chance) or 3+ (66%)

Most spells are casts on 5+ to 7+ , which range from a 60% to 83% chance of success, not counting bonuses like mystical etc.

Sure you can duplicate, stack and go unpunished but no one does because there is no point and you have better thins to do.

Khorne prayers are on the destructive side ot the spectrum. sure +1to hit/armor, 1D6 mortalwounds sounds good, stacks and are undispellable but you either cast them with a 100 point priest at 50% sucess or with a  145 points priest on 66%. That is a hefty price for a sitting duck if you misscast.

[Kramer]

9 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Debatable.

Most prayers (lets'say SCE, Pestilens and Khorne) Have crappy range, low succes chance and for the most part, tend to be less destructive than most spells.

Prayers are cast most of the time on 4+ (50% chance) or 3+ (66%)

Most spells are casts on 5+ to 7+ , which range from a 60% to 83% chance of success, not counting bonuses like mystical etc.

Sure you can duplicate, stack and go unpunished but no one does because there is no point and you have better thins to do.

Khorne prayers are on the destructive side ot the spectrum. sure +1to hit/armor, 1D6 mortalwounds sounds good, stacks and are undispellable but you either cast them with a 100 point priest at 50% sucess or with a  145 points priest on 66%. That is a hefty price for a sitting duck if you misscast.

Very true, I would also add that the factions with priest in these examples lack magic users. No mystical shield  or specific spell. 

So for me it balances out.