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Lets chat Soulblight


TerrorPenguin
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So, new soulblight abilities in ghb 2017. Has anyone has a run out with them yet? This evening I played a friends Phoenix guard army. I took a vampire lord on zombie dragon, vampire, three units five of blood knights, one unit of vargheists and Arkhan as an ally.

My first thought is that the vlozd is not the beast he used to be. Red fury not applying to the mount and with his own command Ability not letting him re-roll for the mount means that those gaping maw attacks are less likely to come off. I'm not sure he's worth 440 points now. My vargeists also died fairly quickly. Arkhan's spell went off well, taking out a Phoenix. 

Im wondering about including neferrata for her spell and taking more vampires on foot rather than mounted. Something like this:

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch Of Blood (400)
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Nightmare
- Trait: Mist Form  
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne  
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror

Battleline
10 x Blood Knights (520)
-  Soulblight Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (260)
-  Soulblight Battleline
3 x Vargheists (160)
-  Soulblight Battleline
3 x Vargheists (160)
-  Soulblight Battleline
3 x Vargheists (160)
-  Soulblight Battleline

Total: 1940/2000
 

60 points might be for dire wolves for mobility or zombies for the numbers. General plan is for the unit of bloodknights to do the work with the vampire lords and neff buffing them with spells and command abilities.

Also what do people think of the abilities? There are obviously some themes, I'm liking the mobility combo of Swift Death, Mist Form and Sigil of the Sanguine Throne. I think sigil is really useful around blood knights who benefit from the charge.

Other thoughts? I like Arkhan and Neff as allies, shame Mannfred didn't get the soulblight keyword or slightly further point reduction.

Edited by TerrorPenguin
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The list how you used is illegal cause the Blood Knight and vargheists are Battle line only if you play a Soulblight Alliagence. And in case you did you didn't choose the blood lineage for your army; instead you put on the rooster Allegiance: Death, not Soulblight and at the same time you've taken the artifact and command trait from the Soulblight allegiance.

Probably is a mistep not writing the alliagence correctly and the bloodline, but it's what makes the difference.

Morover Neferata is a Deathlord so it can't be the general of the Soulblight army, but only as the ally of the allegiance so it's correct to put in the leader, but you should sign it as an ally. cause you finished your points at your disposal as ally, so not zombies or wolves deplyables, you can only summon them to be able to use them.

It's not a shame Mannfred didn't get Soulblight keyword, it would have rewritten the GA:D and the same could be said about Neferata.

 

The list as it is now let you only to summon a minimal unit of zombies and nothing else. Sincerly I'd suggest you to see to take off on unit of wargheist and keep the option to summon the Morghasts or other units to help yourself (or to think about deplying fell bats or other things)

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Anyway I don't like having the general so... fragile, so maybe i'd play anyway with something big: Coven Throne or VloZD, but I think moreover the first with the goblet maybe.

And not using a Blood Dragons style I'd be more free about what playing. I'd choose a totally different way from your one.

A unit of 10 Blood kniths for exambple is quite hard to kill, but I don't like a lot, too mny points concentrated and you risk to play really too few units (as it is). 

Neferata moreover it's not good in a Blood Dragon list and anyway without her access to her command trait I find her less interesting, so I don't suggest to use her and to think to something else sincerly. In that way could be useful to invest points in a ally of Deathrattles or deathwalkers to reinforce with mass the parves lines of the Soulblights.

Anyway I just say such a thing on my vidoe analysis about Soulblights, so I risk to repeat myself^^

Anywway you need more options to play with, such a list cna be great, but doesn't have mass or a great impact so I don't suggest you to follow that route smply.

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I would definitely not play Neferata without a command ability and not take two vampire lords. All of these characters are really inefficient if you aren't using their command abilities. 

I also think that the command abilities thing not affecting mounts is a typo and it is almost certainly meant to be "command traits". That still makes the VLoZD worse, but not quite as much so. I'm still not a huge fan of it. The regular Vampire Lord has a much better command ability and spell, but the general being super fragile like that is a downside. That said, without Ruler of the Night keeping the general alive at all costs is no longer as big of a deal.

I do like having a 10 strong unit of Blood Knights, particularly if you are using a regular Vampire Lord as the general and/or Swift Death, which makes the large size less awkward.

If you are using Dragon Warriors then Vargheists become a little more attractive, but as it is I don't really like them all that much. They are too much softer than Blood Knights for not enough offensive advantage. 

I think that the number one thing the faction needs is bodies, and we pretty much have to go to allies for that. 

This is the list I am thinking of running:

 

Allegiance: Soulblight

Bloodline: Dragon Warriors or Swift Death (undecided)

Vampire Lord (140) - General, Trait: +1 wound (probably), wings

Coven Throne (260) - Saccharine Goblet (if it affects the whole model) or Sigil of the Sanguine Throne (if it does not)

10 Blood Knights (520)

5 Blood Knights (260)

5 Blood Knights (260)

3 Vargheists (160)

40 Skeleton Warriors w/ Spears (280) (ally)

20 Zombies (120) (ally)

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I would like to point out 2 things: vargheists FOR THEIR POINTS are better than blood knights. They arent that much weaker defensively (against rend 1, which is pretty common, gheists have 14 effective wounds per set which comes out to 11 points per wound,  blood knights have 20 effective wounds per set which comes out to 13 points per wound  plus regen. Against no rend they both come out to 10 points per wound plus the knights regen)

And against 3+ saves (which i fight against quite often, ****** stormcast) vargheists are paying 36.73 points per damage dealt versus blood knights 63.54 points per damage dealt. 

I truly think vargheists are mathmatically the better option, especially since they arent $100 a box.

For bodies, id recommend maybe looking into summoning? In the past it hasnt worked out well for me but i also dont have any zombies so that could be part of it.

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You can use Soulblight Allegiance for list building purposes and then pick Death allegiance at the start of the game (FAQ re the GHB which is unamended). This is the old Ironjawz Destruction route.

You can still use Reroll Hits on the Dragon - the wording should say Command Trait.

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

You can use Soulblight Allegiance for list building purposes and then pick Death allegiance at the start of the game (FAQ re the GHB which is unamended). This is the old Ironjawz Destruction route.

You can still use Reroll Hits on the Dragon - the wording should say Command Trait.

I dont' think you can take the GA:D as subally., it's not avalaible in the one allowed.

And that about command trait it's totally absent till doesn't exit a FAQ, there is only a GH2017 language that say otherways, so it's more likely that it's that one the wrong one.

If it would be command trait it would be even worse.

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9 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

would definitely not play Neferata without a command ability and not take two vampire lords. All of these characters are really inefficient if you aren't using their command abilities. 

Kind of agree, but your options are limited. If you want to keep your deathless minions save spread out over a number of units you need heroes, within soulblight you only have the lord, lord on zd or coven throne. Maybe coven throne is a good choice as a more survivable hero but I've never been inspired by it.

Neff I have to confess is because of my excitement of having ten blood Knights with mystic shield who are immune to rend.

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Any thoughts on which artefacts might be best?

Rules question on "The Saccharine Goblet". I understand that the bonuses would only work on the Vampire Lord and not the Dragon, but what if the Vampire Lord doesn't inflict any wounds but the Dragon does? Would this negate the D3 mortal wounds suffered?

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Here's my Soulblight

Soulblight - Swift Death
Vamp on Zombie Dragon - General - Mistform / Sigil 
(*alpha armies failing charges is bad... I'd take the goblet if it worked on me mount)

Vampire Lord on Nightmare
3 x 5 Blood Knights
2 x 3 Vargheists
3 x 5 Dire Wolves

1770 pts

Units of 10 are intriguing as they do get the most mileage out of the command ability but the unit of 5 maximizes the return. 

I've also been considering sneaking a Wightking in with a standard. 


The remaining 230 pts spent on summoning.  I'm new to death but this, to me, is so strong with possibilities.  I love having the toolbox to dip into.  Plus there is a bit of mental jihad having all these extra models on your display. 

Cairn Wraith (for obj holding in Duality / Three places)
Spirit Hosts
Skeletons
Dire Wolves
Balewind (could be used for the little vamp vs an army without shooting / magic to simply own an objective)
Morghast Harbingers

This list is gonna have some hard matchups but I think is fun to play, and play against. 

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3 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said:

Kind of agree, but your options are limited. If you want to keep your deathless minions save spread out over a number of units you need heroes, within soulblight you only have the lord, lord on zd or coven throne. Maybe coven throne is a good choice as a more survivable hero but I've never been inspired by it.

Neff I have to confess is because of my excitement of having ten blood Knights with mystic shield who are immune to rend.

I generally don't like the coven throne either, but it's growing on me a little with a possible reduction in shooting and a rise in hordes. It's role is, I think, to tie up a large unit of lowish bravery infantry. 

 

8 hours ago, Gotrek said:

I would like to point out 2 things: vargheists FOR THEIR POINTS are better than blood knights. They arent that much weaker defensively (against rend 1, which is pretty common, gheists have 14 effective wounds per set which comes out to 11 points per wound,  blood knights have 20 effective wounds per set which comes out to 13 points per wound  plus regen. Against no rend they both come out to 10 points per wound plus the knights regen)

And against 3+ saves (which i fight against quite often, ****** stormcast) vargheists are paying 36.73 points per damage dealt versus blood knights 63.54 points per damage dealt. 

I truly think vargheists are mathmatically the better option, especially since they arent $100 a box.

For bodies, id recommend maybe looking into summoning? In the past it hasnt worked out well for me but i also dont have any zombies so that could be part of it.

I've done the math as well, and you are correct that vs. rend 1 they are roughly equivalent and vargheists are better against rend 2 and mortal wounds. Blood Knights are better against rend 0 though - 5.78 points per wound vs 8.89 points per wound. That's not counting the deathless thralls ability. I think you are forgetting that Blood Knights get a 3+ save against rend 0 attacks. Also, we really can't just wave off the blood knights' regen -- it's very signfiicant. They likely heal a wound each combat phase and return a model during each turn. If they return only one model they become significantly more efficient than Vargheists against rend 1, and if they return multiple models over the course of the game it gets even better.

Offensively, Vargheists are indeed better in prolonged combats. Against 3+ save 2 wound models you'd expect Vargheists to pay about 37.89 points per damage dealt. When not charging, Blood Knights pay 59.36 points per damage inflicted. On the charge, Blood Knights pay 32.96 points per damage dealt. So overall I'd give an edge to the Vargheists here. Do keep in mind though that the Blood Knights are a better target for the Vampire Lord's command ability!

There's certainly room for both in the roster, I think. 

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As I said in another thread one big option for soulblight would be to grab a 60 strong unit of zombies with a corpse cart. That's 400 points exactly and gives you a huge block to stand in the middle of the field and be obnoxious.

If you then keep back summoning points it gives you a cheap summon target which can take objectives, the 20 unit rule, plus the Shambling Horde means you can combine summoned zombie units with each other or even the big block to keep Dragged Down and Torn Apart active at +3/+3.

Not to mention that The Newly Dead makes them very good at taking on and wiping out smaller enemy units to reinforce themselves. As a counter to other Horde races it adds some much needed bulk to the army.

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9 minutes ago, Malakree said:

As I said in another thread one big option for soulblight would be to grab a 60 strong unit of zombies with a corpse cart. That's 400 points exactly and gives you a huge block to stand in the middle of the field and be obnoxious.

If you then keep back summoning points it gives you a cheap summon target which can take objectives, the 20 unit rule, plus the Shambling Horde means you can combine summoned zombie units with each other or even the big block to keep Dragged Down and Torn Apart active at +3/+3.

Not to mention that The Newly Dead makes them very good at taking on and wiping out smaller enemy units to reinforce themselves. As a counter to other Horde races it adds some much needed bulk to the army.

Yeah, I like zombies a lot. I still have a little bias toward skeletons for the 2" attack range, but it may be that zombies will be better in the long run. Summoning is definitely interesting, although I feel a little wary relying on summoning with a low character count. Hmm....

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7 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said:

Kind of agree, but your options are limited. If you want to keep your deathless minions save spread out over a number of units you need heroes, within soulblight you only have the lord, lord on zd or coven throne. Maybe coven throne is a good choice as a more survivable hero but I've never been inspired by it.

Neff I have to confess is because of my excitement of having ten blood Knights with mystic shield who are immune to rend.

Just run pure soulblight, imo.  The bloodline bonuses are good enough to warrant making good use of them.  Death seems pretty synergy-heavy, and the only thing I'd even CONSIDER taking would be a blob of zombs/skeletons or Mourngul.

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What are your plans for the 2 scenarios where you need 20+ models to control the objectives? .. seems like it could force elite armies to take  large units as allies. 

So might be a good idea to either take zombies, or set points aside for summoning.

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14 minutes ago, Nasnad said:

What are your plans for the 2 scenarios where you need 20+ models to control the objectives? .. seems like it could force elite armies to take  large units as allies. 

So might be a good idea to either take zombies, or set points aside for summoning.

It only controls you the objective if you have 20+ unit and the opponent doesn't. If neither has it then it counts models in range. So you just got to go killy on your opponents.

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Guys what do you think about that?

swift death

vlozd 440

- lance,shield,chalice

- mist form , artifact 1/2 idk ( artifact 2 Is  doble " the hunger" ability !

vl 140

-fly

10 blood knights 520

2x6 vargheist 640

2 bats  swarm 80

1 mortis engine 180

-ally

tot 2000

 

- mortis engine Is amazing for keep ( an immortal) vlozd alive + mortal wound dealer

- i love lance + mist form : immagine if you play vs fireslayers ( one of best army in gh2 imo) . They try to kill your lord with 30 vulkite  with teleport turn 1 ( they finish deploy first cause they prob git battalion) . If they fail we can chalice+ retreat + charge + attack and depends in artifact heal 2 wounds or d3 !!:) Italia amazing !! And + mortis engine d3 wound healed more:)

 

what do you think about the list?:)

 

Edited by Tizianolol
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The one thing I've noticed is that people aren't really using Fell Bats which confuses me a little. They aren't quite as good as vargheists but you get twice as many for the same price, if you trigger their Scent of Gore they become absolute monsters in terms of pure output.

6 Fel Bats is 160 points, with Scent of Gore that's 36 attacks. For dealing with swarm armies with no/low armour save that's going to obliterate units. They seem incredibly cheap for what they do.

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2 hours ago, Malakree said:

The one thing I've noticed is that people aren't really using Fell Bats which confuses me a little. They aren't quite as good as vargheists but you get twice as many for the same price, if you trigger their Scent of Gore they become absolute monsters in terms of pure output.

6 Fel Bats is 160 points, with Scent of Gore that's 36 attacks. For dealing with swarm armies with no/low armour save that's going to obliterate units. They seem incredibly cheap for what they do.

My 2k list I aim to try soon is:

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon
Vampire Lord (Winged Horror)

Bloodknights x 10
Bloodknights x 5
Vargheists x 6
Fell Bats x 6
Fell Bats x 6

Fell Bats have decent sized bases (40mm!) and you can really block off an area and screen well with keeping them spaced so that enemies can't charge through... should an enemy model die nearby, then you're looking at 36 attacks for each unit of 6... which is VERY good for only 160 pts.  With Swift Death, the Bats can absorb charges, while the entire army can fly over/around the fight and hit whatever they need to.  I've seen the power of Vargheists with rerolls to hit vs. Hordes, as well as 10 Bloodknights with rerolls on a charge... it's nasty.

Edited by Black_Fortress_Immortal
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Any thought on this list as well?

Allegiance: Soulblight
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- Mount: Steed
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Mist Form 
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Flying Horror
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spear & Shield
10 x Blood Knights (520)
5 x Blood Knights (260)
3 x Vargheists (160)
3 x Fell Bats (80)

Total: 2000/2000

400pts of Skeleton allies/Wight King to have a 40 wound, regenerating Tarpit, Fell Bats/Bat swarm summoning pool (80pts) for harrassment as needed, and the standard auto-include VLoZD and Blood Knights.  A unit of 10 that can be split, but keeping it large to wrap up enemy units and get that charge buff.  Set up the Tarpit, run to objectives/get charged, and flank with Blood Knights/VLoZD.  Retreat forward with the hero.

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Bat swarm is for sure better then bats if you play only 3 of them! -1 to hit in shooting phase for 80 points is amazing imo. The sigil is intresting but if you play swift death you don t need it, and if you must form I think is better artifact 1/2 for you vlozd. If you like bats you can play 6 bats and one unit of swarm instead of 5 blood Knights . You got a big unit of 10 of them, and this unit is really good if charge! In long combats vargh are better. About skeletons I'm not a big fun of ally that big unit, I mean, in this meta is for sure good have a 40  bodies unit but I think for this particular army is better go in with dk and vargh .a  play style similar to ironjawz for ex. 

I know ironj got ardboys to hold points but in many list you can see like brutes spam or a gruntas list .. You can play them " all in style". :)

 

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