Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Gecktron]

I finished my Morathi, High Oracle of Khaine, or how I call her "Mini-Morathi".

To celebrate this I played a quick 1000 points test game against a friends Idoneth Deepkin.

His list: 
Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
Isharann Soulrender (100)
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
Akhelian Leviadon (380)

Total: 1000 / 1000

My list: 
Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
- Trait: Devoted Desciples  
- Artefact: Crystal Heart  
- Lore of Shadows: Mirror Dance
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: Mirror Dance
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
10 x Witch Aelves (100)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives

Total: 1000 / 1000


Things I learned from that game:

1. The Idoneths forgotten Nightmares abilities doesn't matter if you have nothing to shoot
2. Idoneth can be really quick if they want to. The deep striking with the Soulscryer plus the +3" to charge moves can be pretty dangerous
3. Thralls hit like a Train when fighting anything with more than 4 wounds and the ability to return slain thralls is really strong 
and 4. The High Tide ability can be pretty devastating against such a fragile army like the Daughters of Khaine. 

In this game the Idoneth player took out most of my units by turn 3. Thankfully he won the Initiative and killed everything he was in close combat with, so I could use my turn to escape the second fighting round where he attacks first. In turn 4 only one witch aelf, one Blood Sister and the Bloodwrack Shrine where still standing. Against 20 Thralls and a Soulscryer. Re-rolls to hit and re-rolls of ones to-wound after turn 4 saved the game for me. The Bloodwrack Shrine killed the last Thrall with only 2 remaining wounds in turn 5. 

In regards to Morathi: 1000 points is just not enough points to field her. She got bogged down by Thralls in turn 2, lost 3 wounds and failed all but one spell the whole game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lhw]

23 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Haha Kind of  I wanted something out of the box  and I think I made right decision and I used to love Smurfs. 

Blood Sisters are up next and then Cauldrons and infantry, and I'm still on the fence about Bucklers vs Knives for my big block of Sisters of Slaughter, with bucklers they are more of swiss-knife unit (especially when used in Slaughter Troupe) but their damage output is 40-60 Attakcs (taking some loses into consideration). 

Had a nice game vs Changehost today, I won but my opponent made a huge mistake. I tried out Khailebron and it didn't fare as good as HaggNar against Changehost but will test it some more. I seriously considering big units of Blood Sisters with Bloodwrack Shrine , I'm thining about 

HaggNar

Bloodwrack Shrine + Amulet of Dark Fire + Steed of Shadows 

Morathi + Mindrazor 

Hag Queen on Cauldron + Blessing of Khaine 

Hag Queen + Crimson Rejuvenation 

20 Blood Sisters

30 Witches with knives

10 Witches with knives

5 Heartrenders

 

That's really similar to the list I've been running Dante. List Witches, with Warlocks and more Heartrenders. Similar to waht I'll be taking to London GT, hopefully, later this month. Couple of changes on the spells etc. The 20 Sisters have just been filth so far, loadsa fun.

[DantePQ]

@Lhw yep it's time to playtest those Snake Ladies !  Good luck at London GT - fingers crossed. I'd love more Heartrenders but can't find points for them. 

[Scythian]

6 hours ago, JD222 said:

Best painting scheme ever!

I’m a green man myself, but that blue is very nice. You did very nice work! 

[Scythian]

4 hours ago, DantePQ said:

@Lhw yep it's time to playtest those Snake Ladies !  Good luck at London GT - fingers crossed. I'd love more Heartrenders but can't find points for them. 

Here’s hoping for bloody slaughter at all of the tournaments our girls go to! 

[Lucentia]

I did have a nice easy list written for the Warhammer World GT Heat 3, even had the models bought and everything, and then they went and dropped a shiny new battletome in the works with, like, actual options and viable choices just to make me sweat.

What do we think of:

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine

Temple: Hagg Nar

Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (General, Blessing of Khaine)

Bloodwrack Shrine (Mindrazor, Shadow Stone)

Hag Queen (Sacrament of Blood)

Hag Queen (Martyr's Sacrifice)

Hag Queen (Catechism of Murder)

30x Witch Aelves (Paired daggers)

30x Sisters of Slaughter (Bladed bucklers)

10x Witch Aelves (Paired daggers)

15x Blood Sisters

5x Heartrenders

5x Heartrenders

-1980 pts

I'm concerned about lack of magic, with only a single spellcaster, I could swap one of the Hag Queen's out for an allied Sorceress as a Mystic Shield caddy/occasional debuff, but with three large squads I fear I'd miss the Witchbrew.

Also not sold on the prayer choice, it might be good to favour Rejuvenation over either Catechism or Sacrifice, just to keep the heroes ticking a little longer and potentially save giving up easy points from low wound count Hag Queens.

[JD222]

Wondering if anyone noticed the shadowhammer compact the Slaughter Queen is not bold, meaning can only use the on foot model for that battalion? 

 

[BURF1]

12 minutes ago, JD222 said:

Wondering if anyone noticed the shadowhammer compact the Slaughter Queen is not bold, meaning can only use the on foot model for that battalion? 

 

Yep

[JD222]

15 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Yep

Ok thank you for confirming, thought it was op af lol  started converting some Snake cast eternals using dark elf bits, still think I'll do it just was planning around her being on a cauldron and saw the lack of bold. 

[DantePQ]

Blood Sisters ready

And Family photo 

[Dave8210]

Afternoon everyone. So a returning dark elf player and looking to start with the daughters of khaine. 

Just a quick question though. What’s everyone’s understanding on doomfire warlocks. By that I mean the weapon options. It says “some units also equipped with doomfire crossbows”. To me I read that the warlocks have both the scimitar and crossbow. Yet the azyr app only allows to select one or the other. Has there been clarification? How do you all play them?

[Paul_Veyne]

That army looks awesome @DantePQ! I love the colour and basing. Do you have any more pics of an wip shoots?

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Dave8210 said:

Afternoon everyone. So a returning dark elf player and looking to start with the daughters of khaine. 

Just a quick question though. What’s everyone’s understanding on doomfire warlocks. By that I mean the weapon options. It says “some units also equipped with doomfire crossbows”. To me I read that the warlocks have both the scimitar and crossbow. Yet the azyr app only allows to select one or the other. Has there been clarification? How do you all play them?

The crossbow is bonus. You don’t lose the scimitar. 

[DantePQ]

2 hours ago, Chrisdanish said:

That army looks awesome @DantePQ! I love the colour and basing. Do you have any more pics of an wip shoots?

Thanks I think it turned out amazing, unfortunately I don't have much more wip but Bloodwrack Shrine, Cauldron and Metal Witches are coming. 

[WoollyMammoth]

What are people thinking for Deepkin allies??

Looking at the Tidecaster, I realized the wording for DoK spells means that any ally wizard gets a spell! When led me to think that a plain old DE Sorceress is a great alternate spell caster for DoK at only 80pt. That -1 to hit spell shes got could help a lot. In contrast the tidecaster has a similar spell with 2" more range, and she negates the forst wound caused per turn for an extra 20 points. 

Aspect of the Storm is a nice beat-down hero with a bit more survivability than DoK models. Volturnos really shines as a tough to kill piece, with his 3+ immunity to spells. The Deepkin hordes kind of do the same thing as Witches (possibly worse) but with a Soulscryer you are all but guaranteed a first turn charge on anything you like.  This concept is great for DoK - send in a kamikaze to distract your opponent first turn, then second turn the DoK surround and slaughter.

[DantePQ]

I would like Volturnos as he's great supporting hero - fast, great ability but I din't think I can find points for him, as it would mean I need to scrap one of the main units or one of the main heroes and I don't think that he's worth it.  

If Tidecaster can get Lore of Shadows spells then I would take her any day - her spell is amazing in fact she doesn't need lore of shadows spells at all - just her spell + mystic shield/arcane bolt is enough I think I will try to fit her in anyway, her ability to negate wound is very strong and her spell is amazing , problem is her spell is 7+ to cast so you need arcane terrain for her to be reliable, but ability to take Shroud of Despair or for example Mirror Dance would somehow make up for this. For 20 points more over Sorceress it's easy choice as her spell has better range and inflict D3MW instead of 1 and she negates wounds. 

Soul Scryer ability is cool but you're left with 300 points so bascially you can't deploy much with him, but 20 charging Thralls could be good but still is it worth to acrifice 30 Witches for this ? 

[Jamister1]

Deepkin wouldn't get lore of shadows spells, as the they are not part of the daughters of khaine army, they would just be allies

[DantePQ]

8 minutes ago, Jamister1 said:

Deepkin wouldn't get lore of shadows spells, as the they are not part of the daughters of khaine army, they would just be allies

"Each WIZARD in a Daughters of Khaine army knows one spell from the Lore Shadows in addition to any others they know" 

So it could be any wizard, allied wizard is also a wizard in DoK army  

[Jamister1]

I'd argue as daughters of khaine is bolded, they have to have that keyword

[DantePQ]

2 minutes ago, Jamister1 said:

I'd argue as daughters of khaine is bolded, they have to have that keyword

how does it matter it means that army got to have DoK allegiance nothing more, how bolded DoK changes this wording ?  Unless it's FAQed it's pretty clear. 

[Jamister1]

allies do not count as part of the armies allegiance,  therefore, they wouldn't count as being part of the daughters of khaine allegiance army, they are literally just tacked on, and so wouldn't gain spells as they are not a wizard in a daughters of khaine army because the part of the army they are in does not have that allegiance, (that part being the allies). The sylvaneth spell lore is worded the same, and its obviously not what was intended

[Richelieu]

@DantePQ they would not get the spell per the allies rules on page 76 of GHB2017.

[Selpharia]

Update: Taking everyone’s advice, I changed up my army a bit this week: I dropped the Blood Stalkers and the Temple Nest, opting instead to replace them with Blood Sisters (totallling 2x10) and giving my Medusa a Shrine, on top of an extra Hag Queen. 

The results were majestic and brutal. The Battle for the Pass was won with murderous efficacy.

The Witch Aelves died during my opponent’s double turn, but they took all the heat on their side of the board, letting one of my Blood Sister units reach his lines on my Turn 2 Hag brewed and rerolling hits thanks to the power of prayers. The other took the brunt of his Tzeentchian shooting, but still reached his lines mostly intact, wrecking shop and pinning down his general. So my full-up unit of 10 Blood Sisters proceeded to seize his objective, and set about the bloody business of dismantling his lines. The Bloodwrack Shrine Houston barely managed to weather his counterattack, giving my Blood Sisters time to finish the High Oracle’s holy work.

Tl;dr mass glaive snakes with witch elf meat shields worked great.

 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Thoughts on Witch Elves with bucklers?  I see this as a superior option, since even when hit by any rend, you still make a roll (despite "auto" failing because of negative modifiers), you'll still be able to reflect mortal wounds back.  Also, Martyr's Sacrifice means that you can throw them in combat or screen your other units while not worrying whether they survive or not.

[Burf]

4 hours ago, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Thoughts on Witch Elves with bucklers?  I see this as a superior option, since even when hit by any rend, you still make a roll (despite "auto" failing because of negative modifiers), you'll still be able to reflect mortal wounds back.  Also, Martyr's Sacrifice means that you can throw them in combat or screen your other units while not worrying whether they survive or not.

 

I wouldn't say they're flat better, the buckler unit and the dual knives unit accomplish different things, and are more/less effective against different units.

A buckler unit, for example, doesn't benefit as much from buffs as a dual knife unit. It's also reliant on your opponent killing it so a highly resilient unit can simply tie them down without attacking. You also have to keep in mind that as good as the additional mortal wounds are, they only happen once per model. If you're taking martyr's sacrifice for the sake of increasing the bounce back you're sacrificing another prayer and Martyr's is something smart play from your opponent can mitigate. The mortal wounds are also less effective against units with lower saves compared to the additional knives.

Personally, I run a unit of 30 witch aelves with double knives and a unit of 30 SoS with bucklers and they perform very different functions in the army. Both bucklers and knives certainly have there place and I wouldn't call either out and out 'superior' to the other.