Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[Scythian]

Once my Medusa’s are done, I’m taking a long break from painting. This job nearly killed me, lol.

[PainfullyMediocre]

Oh wow @Scythian that is a lot of danger noodles.

How viable do people think they are? I've been writing lists  (this will be my first proper foray into AoS) and I keep thinking they'll need a cauldron for the bloodshield buff as it gives them a 4+ save. 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

56 minutes ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

Oh wow @Scythian that is a lot of danger noodles.

How viable do people think they are? I've been writing lists  (this will be my first proper foray into AoS) and I keep thinking they'll need a cauldron for the bloodshield buff as it gives them a 4+ save. 

They'll need SOMETHING for protection haha, as a 5+ is not that great.  Their output is crazy though...

[GammaMage]

They deal a LOT of damage, but die quite fast, even with Hagg Nar help. (I have only played one game with them though.)

 

In other news, Heartrenders are pretty good snipers.

[Richelieu]

6 hours ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

Oh wow @Scythian that is a lot of danger noodles.

How viable do people think they are? I've been writing lists  (this will be my first proper foray into AoS) and I keep thinking they'll need a cauldron for the bloodshield buff as it gives them a 4+ save. 

I think they will be a very list-specific unit.  They need prayer and cauldron support and so they can't really just be tacked onto a list to fill a point gap, unless it is a single unit that you're hoping will evade notice while your large blocks occupy enemy attention.  With a blood shield, they're pretty equivalent to a unit of Stormcast Protectors in terms of survivability, with superior mobility and damage output.  I think there are many safer choices if you're looking to slot things into a list though.  Heartrenders are a steal and now are my pick for one of the best utility units in the game.  At 140 points for a unit of Blood Sisters you're competing against a Medusa, Blood Stalkers, Doomfire Warlocks, or for just another 30 points above that 140 you can increase a unit of 10 witches up to 30. 

I think both Maggotkin of Nurgle and DoK battlestomes have done outstanding jobs making the choice of which units to bring extremely difficult.

[Blood&skulls]

100% agree. Making a list is really hard and I haven’t come up with one that can squeeze everything I want into it. I really like that design though. 

[Scythian]

Honestly, I really don’t mind if they don’t do well. I bought the 60 snakes for a specific theme, so I’ve already accepted that I’m denying myself the obviously benefits from other characters and models in the army.  I’d rather have fun watching the clash between two armies and have a few laughs. 

[Richelieu]

39 minutes ago, Scythian said:

Honestly, I really don’t mind if they don’t do well. I bought the 60 snakes for a specific theme, so I’ve already accepted that I’m denying myself the obviously benefits from other characters and models in the army.  I’d rather have fun watching the clash between two armies and have a few laughs. 

One thing is for sure.  People are going to remember playing against your army.

[Kaleun]

why did it have to be snakes? :-D

Indi approves your list!

[DantePQ]

Another Bites the Dust  

Ok so I played first game against Changehost today, Duality Battleplan and WON !

I took my other list (with blood Sisters) - Cauldron, Morathi, 2xHag, 30 SoS, 30 Witches, 10 Witches, 5 Warlocks, 10 Heartrenders, 5 Heartredners. 

Changehost was mauled, I deployed in a way that Cauldron was within reach of  objective(objective 1) and Morathi was 7'' away to have a shot of capturing second objective(objective 2), SoS were near objective 2 with one Hag Queen (Sacrament of Blod) , 30 Witches were near Cauldorn and objective 1 with Hag Quenn (Crimson Rejuventation), small unit in the middle, Warlocks in cover near Cauldron. DoT player put Changeling near objective away from Cauldron and elected to give me first turn, which is standard Changehost play but don't think is good tactic against DoK. So I changed Morathi, prayed re-rolls of FF on Cauldon, put Witchbrew on two big units, cast mystic shield on Morathi. Morathi run along with SoS towards obejctive 2 , I rolled 5 for run so she discovered Changeling, Cauldron took Obejctive 1 (rolled 1 for run for re-rolled into 6), Witches were close by. Then DoT started first run he blasted 21 SoS from one unit but it was it, he didn't cast 9+ spell with Herald (who managed to cast Vortex for himself), he put 30 Tzaangors 16 inches away from Cauldron. Of course he got double turn, he put 1 wound on Morathi, killed some SoS more, killed 5 Witches and cast 4(!) spells into Cauldron he managed to inflict 15 mortal wounds from 3 spells (he rolled 2x6 for D6 spells and 5 for Arcane Bolt) and after saves Cauldron lost only 2 wounds (!), then lost antoher 2 from LoC spells. Amulet of Fire + 5++ FF with re-rolls is AWESOME !, then he charged Tzaangors into Cauldron (he rolled 5 for run), Tzaangors charged andmanaged to reduce Cauldron to 5 wounds left but Slaughter Queen along with Avatar killed like 11 Tzaangors. I got my turn - Morathi failed to cast Black Horror on Gaunt, I failed to heal Cauldron, failed to cast Sacrament of Blood and got wounded on Cauldron after failing re-rolls of FF. I put two units of Heartrenders and Warlocks in range to shot at Herlad on Vortex and shot him down with Heartrenders  .Morathi charged Brims (still being in range of objectice), remaing SoS charged blue horrors, and 10 Witches with bucklers charged another units of horror, 26 witches charged into Tzaangors. Witches reduced Tzaangors to 1 Tzzangor who failed to wound Cauldorn, Morathi killed all Brimstones, 9 SoS killed 10 horrors. Of course Changehost got 3rd turn as well, my opponent managed to kill Cauldron (but I had Hag within 3'' of objective). So we played this turn to end but it was all over with Morathi on one objective with 11 wounds left . Anyway I would've tabled him anyway, as he was left with LoC, Gaunt, Scribes  and few units of horrors.   

My opponents having awesome rolls (won 2nd and 3rd turn plus 15 mortals) I won quite comfortably, sure it was quite good Battleplan for me but my rolls very quite average ( I failed like 6 prayers in 2 turns with 3 extra wounds inflicted on my Hags and Slaughter Queen).  I think in different scenario It would look similar and I wouldn't be rushed into objectives so fast. I really liked how my build with two big blocks played agains Changehost. Also my opponent deployed really well so with Kheilborn I would be blasted with spells. 

 

[BURF1]

On 3/15/2018 at 4:07 PM, Richelieu said:

It won't necessarily even be "decimate something," it could be decimate several things considering how large of a footprint 20 Lifetakers is.   Bubblewrapping against it will also be  difficult since they can fly over a flat conga line on a reasonable charge since they'll be 3" away from it.  It would be a prime target for Martyr's Sacrifice as it would create a situation where your opponent has to either waste their ranged firepower and spells removing a unit that is up in their face, or have another 10-ish mortals returned when they attack them in melee. 

This is getting more and more enticing (in no small part because I already have the Stormcast part of the battalion, so there's a low barrier to entry).

The best part is that, because you're for sure doing khellebron in this list, you have all sorts of other tricks with big units of WE still available if your opponent guards against the lifetakers. And even if they manage to close both of those options you can still just double shoot with judicators/stalkers.

The list is actually super flexible and seems crazy fun, the only problem is that for me that means buying another 4 boxes of khinerai, a box of melusai, and 2 more boxes of witch aelves.

[Richelieu]

32 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

The best part is that, because you're for sure doing khellebron in this list, you have all sorts of other tricks with big units of WE still available if your opponent guards against the lifetakers. And even if they manage to close both of those options you can still just double shoot with judicators/stalkers.

The list is actually super flexible and seems crazy fun, the only problem is that for me that means buying another 4 boxes of khinerai, a box of melusai, and 2 more boxes of witch aelves.

I'm going to try it first with just a unit of 10 Lifetakers, since as I said earlier I will want to own them for the Cauldron Guard battalion anyway, but if it goes well I'll expand.  I intend to use a unit of 10 Judicators since like you said, if they bubble wrap, maybe I just use the free move to position my archers and then pincushion their squishy heroes.  A free "do anything you want except charge" for two units is powerful.  I'll try to get a practice game in soon and then if all goes well I think I'll take it to a GT I'm attending at the beginning of June.

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, DantePQ said:

DoT player put Changeling near objective away from Cauldron and elected to give me first turn, which is standard Changehost play but don't think is good tactic aginst DoK.

Are you saying he set the Changeling up right next to the objective, or 12" away from it?  The latest errata for Changeling says the he has to be set up in your opponent's territory.  The objectives are 12" from either territory, so it is not possible to set them up within range of the objective to claim it.  Just want to better understand the board setup you're describing.

[DantePQ]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

Are you saying he set the Changeling up right next to the objective, or 12" away from it?  The latest errata for Changeling says the he has to be set up in your opponent's territory.  The objectives are 12" from either territory, so it is not possible to set them up within range of the objective to claim it.  Just want to better understand the board setup you're describing.

Sorry for not being specific he set him up 12" he didn't think I was going to roll 5 or 6 for Morathi run and discover him. SoS were moved that away to be able to pile in into him and with 6" pile in they did and like 8 were enough him to kill with Witchbrew. I took  that objective in 2nd turn with Morathi. 

Most important thing when DoT isn't able to take down crucial targets by turn 3 they are toasted as DoK has a lot of units that can shred through his units. Immunity oo Battleshock thanks oo Witchbrew and Amulet of Dark Fire are crucial here as he needed like 9 spells and Tzaangors charge (along with me failing to heal Cauldron and then to cast re rolls of FF) to take down Cauldron. 

[Burf]

4 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I'm going to try it first with just a unit of 10 Lifetakers, since as I said earlier I will want to own them for the Cauldron Guard battalion anyway, but if it goes well I'll expand.  I intend to use a unit of 10 Judicators since like you said, if they bubble wrap, maybe I just use the free move to position my archers and then pincushion their squishy heroes.  A free "do anything you want except charge" for two units is powerful.  I'll try to get a practice game in soon and then if all goes well I think I'll take it to a GT I'm attending at the beginning of June.

10 Stalkers would be better than 10 judicators. Without the D6 wound bow Judicators just straight up aren't as good as stalkers, especially with a Cauldron in the list. 

Without the benefit of a second d6 bow prime, in any dok list with a cauldron, stalkers have better durability, mobility, range, damage output, bravery, and buff-ability.

[Richelieu]

29 minutes ago, Burf said:

10 Stalkers would be better than 10 judicators. Without the D6 wound bow Judicators just straight up aren't as good as stalkers, especially with a Cauldron in the list. 

Without the benefit of a second d6 bow prime, in any dok list with a cauldron, stalkers have better durability, mobility, range, damage output, bravery, and buff-ability.

Yeah, I don't disagree...But I don't own ten stalkers and I do own ten Judicators lol

[Richelieu]

4 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Sorry for not being specific he set him up 12" he didn't think I was going to roll 5 or 6 for Morathi run and discover him

This is why I think that changeling is no longer an auto include in change host.  Since he can be discovered in any phase now it's just too easy to lose him turn one. And  Tzeentch has so many better wizards.  Blue scribes, Ogroid thaumaturge, even curseling.  I guess that's a discussion for the Tzeentch thread though. 

[Scythian]

The entire 2k Daughters of Khaine “Serpents of Khaine” list is now officially ready for table top play.  Finished the Bloodwrack Medusa’s tonight to complete the army. My fellow battle sisters, the snakes are ready! 

[DantePQ]

3 hours ago, Richelieu said:

This is why I think that changeling is no longer an auto include in change host.  Since he can be discovered in any phase now it's just too easy to lose him turn one. And  Tzeentch has so many better wizards.  Blue scribes, Ogroid thaumaturge, even curseling.  I guess that's a discussion for the Tzeentch thread though. 

Yep I agree, but it will depend how Changehost will play. If they want to give back first turn in majority of match-ups then yeah Changeling is kind of useless. But I think that they will have to change that strategy as it won't work very well against DoK - Morathi will shred them - just change into big form right away, Khailebron could shred them. Sure it was one game but I can see Changehost having huge problems against HaggNarr as those withces hit hard, 8-9 is enough to kill everything Changehost can throw at you (bar 30 Tzaangors) and heartrenders are capable of sniping out Herald/Summoner/Scribes so DoT player must be really tight with deployment and movement. I like HaggNar a lot against Changehost  

[Amradiel]

4 hours ago, Scythian said:

The entire 2k Daughters of Khaine “Serpents of Khaine” list is now officially ready for table top play.  Finished the Bloodwrack Medusa’s tonight to complete the army. My fellow battle sisters, the snakes are ready! 

Why did I not think of that?  Looks awesome! I would like Morathi in there. 

[Kaleun]

16 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Another Bites the Dust  

Ok so I played first game against Changehost today, Duality Battleplan and WON !

I took my other list (with blood Sisters) - Cauldron, Morathi, 2xHag, 30 SoS, 30 Witches, 10 Witches, 5 Warlocks, 10 Heartrenders, 5 Heartredners. 

Changehost was mauled, I deployed in a way that Cauldron was within reach of  objective(objective 1) and Morathi was 7'' away to have a shot of capturing second objective(objective 2), SoS were near objective 2 with one Hag Queen (Sacrament of Blod) , 30 Witches were near Cauldorn and objective 1 with Hag Quenn (Crimson Rejuventation), small unit in the middle, Warlocks in cover near Cauldron. DoT player put Changeling near objective away from Cauldron and elected to give me first turn, which is standard Changehost play but don't think is good tactic against DoK. So I changed Morathi, prayed re-rolls of FF on Cauldon, put Witchbrew on two big units, cast mystic shield on Morathi. Morathi run along with SoS towards obejctive 2 , I rolled 5 for run so she discovered Changeling, Cauldron took Obejctive 1 (rolled 1 for run for re-rolled into 6), Witches were close by. Then DoT started first run he blasted 21 SoS from one unit but it was it, he didn't cast 9+ spell with Herald (who managed to cast Vortex for himself), he put 30 Tzaangors 16 inches away from Cauldron. Of course he got double turn, he put 1 wound on Morathi, killed some SoS more, killed 5 Witches and cast 4(!) spells into Cauldron he managed to inflict 15 mortal wounds from 3 spells (he rolled 2x6 for D6 spells and 5 for Arcane Bolt) and after saves Cauldron lost only 2 wounds (!), then lost antoher 2 from LoC spells. Amulet of Fire + 5++ FF with re-rolls is AWESOME !, then he charged Tzaangors into Cauldron (he rolled 5 for run), Tzaangors charged andmanaged to reduce Cauldron to 5 wounds left but Slaughter Queen along with Avatar killed like 11 Tzaangors. I got my turn - Morathi failed to cast Black Horror on Gaunt, I failed to heal Cauldron, failed to cast Sacrament of Blood and got wounded on Cauldron after failing re-rolls of FF. I put two units of Heartrenders and Warlocks in range to shot at Herlad on Vortex and shot him down with Heartrenders  .Morathi charged Brims (still being in range of objectice), remaing SoS charged blue horrors, and 10 Witches with bucklers charged another units of horror, 26 witches charged into Tzaangors. Witches reduced Tzaangors to 1 Tzzangor who failed to wound Cauldorn, Morathi killed all Brimstones, 9 SoS killed 10 horrors. Of course Changehost got 3rd turn as well, my opponent managed to kill Cauldron (but I had Hag within 3'' of objective). So we played this turn to end but it was all over with Morathi on one objective with 11 wounds left . Anyway I would've tabled him anyway, as he was left with LoC, Gaunt, Scribes  and few units of horrors.   

My opponents having awesome rolls (won 2nd and 3rd turn plus 15 mortals) I won quite comfortably, sure it was quite good Battleplan for me but my rolls very quite average ( I failed like 6 prayers in 2 turns with 3 extra wounds inflicted on my Hags and Slaughter Queen).  I think in different scenario It would look similar and I wouldn't be rushed into objectives so fast. I really liked how my build with two big blocks played agains Changehost. Also my opponent deployed really well so with Kheilborn I would be blasted with spells. 

 

To visualize the Battle I can recommend this programm:

http://battlechronicler.com/

With the Battlechronicler you can quick and easy show how deployment was and how the battle developed. Great report

[TheWildRide]

Hi folks, I'm looking for some input on my army list. I haven't played too much Age of Sigmar before (definitely nothing competitive), but I'm hoping for this to be my first proper army, to be played in semi-serious games - I'm not really a tournament player, but I don't want to rule out the possibility and my gaming friends aren't slouches either. This is the potential list I'm currently looking at:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
Hag Queen (60)

Battleline
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)

Units
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (100)
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Wounds: 121

My primary goal with this list was to fit both the Cauldron Guard and Temple List battalions in, since I really like the new Melusai models (and tend to prefer smaller, elite armies) but also want a decent core of "classic" Daughters of Khaine. Some of the concerns I have are:

1. The overall viability of the list. Whilst I quite like this combination of units, am I barking up the wrong tree completely?
2. The Bloodwrack Shrine's lack of a command ability. Is it worth giving that up to make the Blood Sisters satisfy the 3+ battleline requirement?
3. Which artefacts to take on my leaders. As I understand it, with this list I can take a total of three, correct?
4. Likewise, which Lore of Shadows to pick for my Bloodwrack Shrine.
5. The model count. Is there a way I can reduce the model count a little, particularly on the Witch Aelves, without neutering my army?

Cheers!

[The Traitor]

@TheWildRide: I would take the Slaughter Queen as general, divide a unit of witches in two, mix the blood sisters in one unit of ten, forego temple nest (you would need more snakes for it to really work) and take an additional hag queen instead. As for artefacts I would either take the thousand and one blessings or the amulet of dark fire on the Slaughter Queen (depending on how MW heavy is your meta) and the one that gives you +1 to cast on the bloodwrack to reliably cast mindrazor (so take mindrazor).

 

[BURF1]

5 hours ago, TheWildRide said:

Hi folks, I'm looking for some input on my army list. I haven't played too much Age of Sigmar before (definitely nothing competitive), but I'm hoping for this to be my first proper army, to be played in semi-serious games - I'm not really a tournament player, but I don't want to rule out the possibility and my gaming friends aren't slouches either. This is the potential list I'm currently looking at:

Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (220)
- General
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
Hag Queen (60)

Battleline
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
20 x Witch Aelves (200)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
5 x Blood Sisters (140)
5 x Blood Sisters (140)

Units
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)
5 x Blood Stalkers (160)

Battalions
Cauldron Guard (100)
Temple Nest (80)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Wounds: 121

My primary goal with this list was to fit both the Cauldron Guard and Temple List battalions in, since I really like the new Melusai models (and tend to prefer smaller, elite armies) but also want a decent core of "classic" Daughters of Khaine. Some of the concerns I have are:

1. The overall viability of the list. Whilst I quite like this combination of units, am I barking up the wrong tree completely?
2. The Bloodwrack Shrine's lack of a command ability. Is it worth giving that up to make the Blood Sisters satisfy the 3+ battleline requirement?
3. Which artefacts to take on my leaders. As I understand it, with this list I can take a total of three, correct?
4. Likewise, which Lore of Shadows to pick for my Bloodwrack Shrine.
5. The model count. Is there a way I can reduce the model count a little, particularly on the Witch Aelves, without neutering my army?

Cheers!

Doubling up on battalions isn't really worth it. You're spending a lot of points on relatively small bonuses while also neutering the units in those battalions, plus you're pigeon holing yourself into taking lifetakers and stalkers which are only really worth their points in very specific lists.

Slaughter queen on cauldron should be your general whenever possible. In this case, you simply don't have enough blood sisters to justify losing out on her amazing command ability.

Artefacts are sort of meta dependent. Good candidates are blood sigil, shadow rune, amulet of dark fire, a thousand and one dark blessings, but many others are very usable

ALWAYS TAKE MINDRAZOR. Mindrazor is arguably the best spell in the entire game. After that all the spells have valuable uses(steed and mirrordance need the right list tho)

Unfortunately for model count, the only way to reduce it, ESPECIALLY with W/E or SoS, without gimping the army, is to take huge numbers of snakes or shadowhammer compact. Witch Elves and SoS are some of the best battleline in the game and I consider 50 to be mandatory for about 80% of lists and personally feel that having 90 is something that every DoK player should be working towards(not that you should run 90 but being able to pick and choose between is great)

[DioRa]

So I've been seeing plenty of lists around, and the army is quite go forward and be in the face of your enemy kind of deal. What units do we leave behind to park on objectives in our deployment zone for matched play scenarios? Worth taking Darkshard allies to leave behind and camp? Or three units of blood stalkers?