Kramer Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, eekamouse said: Good info re: summoning. I do think some parameters are in order.... like what you all agreed to. Haha then I didn't really manage to explain it well. Let me try again. My purpose of these examples was that I didn't feel that limiting or not limiting made a lot difference. Firstly the scenario's so far offered enough of an time challenge that keeping back and summoning a second army would mean I already lost. The only exception was 'the vendetta' so far. Secondly yes during that scenario I felt I could have screwed us both over. But you have to be a right *ss to do so. And if you have someone that would actually hide one sorcerer in a corner to summon a second army... Be happy that you know and exclude them from every single event you run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Oh OK... my bad. I understand now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 58 minutes ago, Kramer said: Saturday we rolled up 2 warbands and played two games without limits on summoning... wasn't really an issue. Impossible. You clearly did something wrong. More quote (because standard wbays to add a quote later are seemingly impossible here) : " I could have easily rushed everything forward except my chariot (as I had chosen to have a vendetta) and my sorcerer, keep summoning units until he had dealt with my other units. " => So, really no different than other spells. People overlook this all the time. Yes, summons are good, but so are spells doing mortal wounds or whatever. Some spells add models, some take them away. Different tactical challenges, but if we just nerf summoning straight away, we'll never experience them. Good on you for not being pre-emptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Sleboda said: Impossible. You clearly did something wrong. I know right! And when he went to the bathroom I didn't even remove some of his models whilst replacing mine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Glad to hear it went well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 hours ago, bottle said: Glad to hear it went well! It was really fun. Felt fine combining different factions (always felt previous editions were meant for internal faction campaigns) so happy about that. After three games we both rolled one extra unit, he is on 5 glory points i'm on 3. So will try to finish the campaign soon but might be a while. Highly recommend it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just to cement that Allegiance Abilites are in full effect, here are some more examples I found: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FractalRain Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I do think that clarifies that Allegiance Abilities are already included in a way. What is the overall concensus on using Command Traits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Its the love child of open play and matched. They kinda did what wok does, a foc based on rankings/power level not points. Its sooooooo goood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said: They kinda did what wok does, a foc based on rankings/power level not points. Haha so many acronyms i don't get. What's wok? or foc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kramer said: Haha so many acronyms i don't get. What's wok? or foc? As a note and general plea to all the fine, lovely, and good folks here on this site, please let's try to avoid acronymoverload. Dakka has that problem and it contributes to their forums being unhelpful and (I believe) hostile. I like the nice, informative nature of this site. (Nothing personal to Sadysaneto.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Sorry. Wok = wrath of kings, a wargame from cmon. Foc = force organization chart. You knwo, like 1 hero, 2 bls, 2 artillery. Ptg does not use points as usual. It sorts units in brackets of power level and give then a fixed cost. Imo, it works very good and its the perfect mix of open and pitched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 There seems to be a fair bit of confusion about how allegiance abilities work (and what they are). I was under the impression you pick your allegiance based on a common keyword before each battle. So if an army adds non-faction units between games it might go from being a faction to a grand alliance army, limiting it to just allegiance abilities for its grand alliance. This offsets the freedom of being able to pick units from multiple factions. Allegiance abilities themselves include a battle trait, and usually a selection of command traits, artefacts of power and spells. They can be freely changed between games. Does this sound about right to people?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, Captain Marius said: There seems to be a fair bit of confusion about how allegiance abilities work (and what they are). I was under the impression you pick your allegiance based on a common keyword before each battle. So if an army adds non-faction units between games it might go from being a faction to a grand alliance army, limiting it to just allegiance abilities for its grand alliance. This offsets the freedom of being able to pick units from multiple factions. Allegiance abilities themselves include a battle trait, and usually a selection of command traits, artefacts of power and spells. They can be freely changed between games. Does this sound about right to people?? That's definitely right for pick up and play, the problem is when it conflicts with the narrative of a Warband growing in power through a campaign. Say you had a Sylvaneth Warband and you later add in some Fyreslayers. All of a sudden do your spellcasters forget all their spells? Do you have to hand back your artefacts because you aren't qualified for them any more? I think it's more narratively satisfying for you to keep your allegiance ability despite having some units outside of that allegiance. That's how I'll be playing it at least too! I'll also be playing traits/artefacts and spells are fixed through the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncas Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just noticed something in path to glory and am probably reaching here, but will throw this out. So, the silver tower heroes with new models( knight questor, doom seeker, etc) are all present in the warband tables, except for the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard... Maybe cuz they are about to be part of a new shadowy aelf faction with a new battletome with its own warband table... One can dream. it's more likely they simply forgot to put them in there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellalugosi Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 54 minutes ago, Uncas said: Just noticed something in path to glory and am probably reaching here, but will throw this out. So, the silver tower heroes with new models( knight questor, doom seeker, etc) are all present in the warband tables, except for the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard... Maybe cuz they are about to be part of a new shadowy aelf faction with a new battletome with its own warband table... One can dream. it's more likely they simply forgot to put them in there ? Im thinking this too!!! But at the same time we didnt get the warpriest in skirmish, so maybe reaching? I think youre right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuluth Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 As I haven't gotten a chance to pick up / download the book yet: For the warbands sections, are any of the returning ones updated, or are they a copy/paste from GHB and the battletomes that had them included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Uncas said: Just noticed something in path to glory and am probably reaching here, but will throw this out. So, the silver tower heroes with new models( knight questor, doom seeker, etc) are all present in the warband tables, except for the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard... Maybe cuz they are about to be part of a new shadowy aelf faction with a new battletome with its own warband table... One can dream. it's more likely they simply forgot to put them in there ? Well no I know what I'll dream about 3 hours ago, Captain Marius said: Allegiance abilities themselves include a battle trait, and usually a selection of command traits, artefacts of power and spells. They can be freely changed between games. Does this sound about right to people?? 2 hours ago, bottle said: That's definitely right for pick up and play, the problem is when it conflicts with the narrative of a Warband growing in power through a campaign. Say you had a Sylvaneth Warband and you later add in some Fyreslayers. All of a sudden do your spellcasters forget all their spells? Do you have to hand back your artefacts because you aren't qualified for them any more? I think it's more narratively satisfying for you to keep your allegiance ability despite having some units outside of that allegiance. That's how I'll be playing it at least too! I'll also be playing traits/artefacts and spells are fixed through the campaign. Haha I we had the same 'discussion' about this and we went straight the other way. Both work. But we decided that narratively it made more sense if a warlord was so focussed on gaining power within a faction and being the epitome of that faction (and as a result using the most fitting abilities and artifacts), he would refuse any outsiders in his warband. And as such you as a player limit your self to the faction or alliance at the offset. For us this stayed more true to the faction vs alliance set up. But again both will work as long as you talk to your opponent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, Tuluth said: As I haven't gotten a chance to pick up / download the book yet: For the warbands sections, are any of the returning ones updated, or are they a copy/paste from GHB and the battletomes that had them included? Updated as they all follow a new division in follower elite etc. On numbers to warscroll I think so as well but I haven't put them next to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 12 hours ago, Uncas said: Just noticed something in path to glory and am probably reaching here, but will throw this out. So, the silver tower heroes with new models( knight questor, doom seeker, etc) are all present in the warband tables, except for the Mistweaver Saih and Tenebrael Shard... Maybe cuz they are about to be part of a new shadowy aelf faction with a new battletome with its own warband table... One can dream. it's more likely they simply forgot to put them in there ? I don't think that there's any doubt that those two will get updated warscrolls (Probably just keyword changes) when the Shadow Aelves come out. At the moment, you can tell by their keywords that they don't fit into any existing faction, and hence aren't in any of the Path to Glory tables. I also think it's the reason they weren't included in Skirmish, because they currently don't belong to any particular faction to put them under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncas Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 5 hours ago, someone2040 said: I don't think that there's any doubt that those two will get updated warscrolls (Probably just keyword changes) when the Shadow Aelves come out. At the moment, you can tell by their keywords that they don't fit into any existing faction, and hence aren't in any of the Path to Glory tables. I also think it's the reason they weren't included in Skirmish, because they currently don't belong to any particular faction to put them under. While I get what you are saying, none of the aelves have faction specific war bands, but are grouped as Order and then as Aelf. Those are keywords that both models have, so technically, if they wanted to, they would have fit fine in PtG along with all the other pointy ears. Unless, there is another reason they were not put in...muahaha? In Skirmish, the aelves are grouped by faction, so I agree, no place to really put them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 There seems to be a fair bit of confusion about how allegiance abilities work (and what they are). I was under the impression you pick your allegiance based on a common keyword before each battle. So if an army adds non-faction units between games it might go from being a faction to a grand alliance army, limiting it to just allegiance abilities for its grand alliance. This offsets the freedom of being able to pick units from multiple factions. Allegiance abilities themselves include a battle trait, and usually a selection of command traits, artefacts of power and spells. They can be freely changed between games. Does this sound about right to people??In PtG you define your warband at creation (p17).There is an explicit choice of Allegiance and then all units are generated from the tables for that particular Allegiance. And if you're Chaos, you must have a Chaos Patron Deity.For PtG, you have to stay within the Allegiance for unit choice. And you can't add non-Allegiance units to your army.For example the "order warband table" on p66 gives wide sets of choices in the "Order Warband" of Human, Aelf or Duardin.Skaven Allegiance likewise gives lots of choices. With the caveat that Skaven Pestilins is a separate Allegiance.Even summoning for Chaos Wizards requires that they are only able to summon chaos Daemons from their Chaos Patron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Cheers for clarifying @TheOtherJoshthat is a nice elegant solution, a choice of flexibility of followers or faction specific abilities from the get go. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadysaneto Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 pg 18. Additional Followers: More followers flock to your banner. Either select a unit or roll for a random one from a follower table, then add it to your warband roster. You can choose from any of your own follower tables, or from any of the follower tables from an allied warband. i.e. a warband table whose allegiance is from the same Grand Alliance as your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Although it seems confusing now, I think the GHBII will clear everything up. Followers from outside your allegiance can just be treated the same as allies: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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