Let`s chat: Anvilguard

[Uncas]

49 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

well the Generals Handbook states on page 76:
"Allied units can have different allegiance to the rest of the army."

So we should be totally fine with some Shadowblade allies here. :-)

 

We can also easily change this into a 2000 point army:

Anvilguard - 3 drop army - Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Defense
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact : Quicksilver Potion

Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact : Relic Blade

Units
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
1 x Drakespawn Chariots (100)
10 x Dark Riders (240)
- Allies
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)

Behemoths
War Hydra (200)

Battalions
Ebondrake Warhost (160)

Reinforcement Points (0)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 240 / 400

Leaders: 2/6 Battlelines: 4 (3+) Behemoths: 3/4 Artillery: 0/4

I get what you are saying, but this pic from the tempest eye reprint suggests otherwise, since it says units and/or battallions with the listed keywords; so looking at that, an eldritch council army couldn't include any Phoenix gaurd in a Tempest Eye army, even though they are allies

[Kaleun]

I guess we have to wait for the full realease of Firestorm to explain this issue. However I dont think it blocks you from including allies into your army.

-> Army + Allies

Edited September 25, 2017 by Kaleun

[GammaMage]

The problem is, the city allegiances don't list ally options like the factions in the GHB2017 do.  So either everything in order is a possible ally, or nothing.

[stato]

14 hours ago, GammaMage said:

The problem is, the city allegiances don't list ally options like the factions in the GHB2017 do.  So either everything in order is a possible ally, or nothing.

Thats how i read it.  You have a legal force then if it satisfies the city allegiance then it can come from there and get those abilities (painting discussions aside)

[GammaMage]

Yeah, I'm assuming I can't ally in Daughters of Khaine until I'm told otherwise. Fortunately for me, Witch Aelves with bladed shields make really awesome dynamic-looking Bleaksword proxies, and people here will be cool with me using them as such. Now to wait for Drakespawn Knights to be back in stock...

[Kaleun]

Well so long we arent sure if we can bring allies we can build a Order Serpentis only list with only 2 drops in 2000 points. Like so:

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Relic Blade

Battleline
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
- Order Serpentis Battleline
10 x Drakespawn Knights (320)
- Order Serpentis Battleline
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
- Order Serpentis Battleline
2 x Drakespawn Chariots (200)
- Order Serpentis Battleline

Behemoths
War Hydra (200)

Battalions
Ebondrake Warhost (160)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

[Twitch of Izalith]

On 25/09/2017 at 5:52 PM, Uncas said:

Also, that extra charge you can get in the hero phase from the ebondrake warhost could be useful for an extra movement to try and wrap around enemies before you use the Anvilgard ability

Wow an opportunity for that ability to actually be useful!! I still think they messed that up in the GA Order book. I don't get why  you would charge in your hero phase normally  - not when you get to move closer and then charge. now, if it was your opponents hero phase...

@Kaleun Really like your Serpentis Anvilguard list! I was keen to do something like that because I love those dark rider models. I would have also liked to do a Serpentis / Draconis one. Dragonblades look great converted and painted into dark elf heavy cav - some weapon and shield swaps is all it takes. I have a box waiting for an excuse

In the end I am trying to do something with stormcast in it - they have some dragons. I will post it on here later.

[Kaleun]

Do we have any further information on the Firestorm Campaign book/Anvil Guard possibilities?

@Twitch of Izalith

thank you :-) We look forward to your list.

[GammaMage]

I'm gonna try out an Anvilgard/Darkling Covens army on Wednesday against Ironjaws.

[Kaleun]

Just a quick info about the allegiance:

[Kaleun]

@GammaMage

Did the game go well?

[GammaMage]

It's still Wed morning here! Will let you know how it went this eve. We are playing Duality of Death, which I suspect is gonna be difficult to pull off. I am playing a Knight-Azyros, so he should be good for holding a point especially with the healing stuff, but the rest of my heroes are squishy dark elves. I'm gonna try drop a Shadowblades Assassin on one of his heroes. I spent last night converting one of the witch elves from the Cauldron into a cool-looking female assassin. We'll see how she does!

[Kaleun]

@GammaMage

ah, sure! Have fun!!

[GammaMage]

So this is what we played (1400 points, max 300 pts of allies):
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Darkling Covens / Anvilgard

Leaders
Sorceress (80)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Sorcerous Arts
- Artefact: Decanter of Egos
Sorceress (80)
Assassin (80)
Knight-Azyros (80)

Battleline
10 x Bleakswords (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Black Guard (160)
10 x Executioners (180)

Units
5 x Dark Riders (120)

Battalions
Thrall Warhost (180)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Live to Fight
- Artefact: Destroyer
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Weirdfist (200)

He had less drops than me and made me go first. I set up my Dark Riders, Black Guard and non-general sorceress on the left side (with Assassin hiding in the Dark Riders), and everything else on the right. First turn I used the decanter,  and tried to get my Bleakswords in for a first strike, but they failed the charge. The Knight-Azyros grabbed the right objective however.  On the other side, the Sorceress summoned a Balewind (I decided not to do the whole summon Balewind next to objective so you can't get rid of me). The Dark Knights moved to screen off that objective. I forgot to shoot with them. Might have been able to deal a wound or two to the gore-gruntas. On his turn he charged gore-gruntas into my dark riders and Ardboys into my Bleakswords. Worried that my Riders might die, and with his heroes too far away, I dropped the Assassin behind the Dark Riders so she could at least grab the objective. He wiped out the Bleakswords immediately, and then using the Ironjaws allegiance thing, hit my Riders and killed three with the Gore-Gruntas. He then got the double turn,  and continued by hurting my Darkshards, Bleakswords, and killing the rest of my Dark Riders. The Ironjaws keep attacking thing is really annoying, by the way. Fortunately his Weirdnob kept failing casting rolls, and my Knight-Azyros with mystic shield and the healing from the objective held on despite him killing large numbers of my units. By the end of turn 3 I had nothing left on the left objective, but my general, Knight and Executioners had managed to survive and give a good accounting of themselves. I was on 7 points by then, and he worked out that even if he killed my whole army (which he probably could have done), he couldn't catch up on victory points, so called the game. So yay, a win for me. Sadly, I never succeeded on the Anvilgard allegiance trait (partly because he kept wiping out entire units at once).

[Kaleun]

we received a rules update for matched play:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/06/firestorm-matched-play-rules-update/

You can use the Anvilguard Allegiance together with the Order Artefacts, Allegiance ability (reroll battleshock) and the Warlord traits. You cant however combine Darkling Covens with the Anvilguard!

[Uncas]

I think you can still take a Darkling Covens allegiance in your Anvilgard army so that you get executioners or black gaurd as battleline, but you cannot use the darkling coven allegiance abilities in said army

[sirflukesalot]

3 hours ago, Uncas said:

I think you can still take a Darkling Covens allegiance in your Anvilgard army so that you get executioners or black gaurd as battleline, but you cannot use the darkling coven allegiance abilities in said army

you can still use the allegiance "darkling covens" BUT you have to use the grand alliance abilities to be able to use anvilgard ones as well

[GammaMage]

It is worrying that they are errataing rules in books that just got released. I'm really glad I didn't buy it now (was holding off till Christmas), as I doubt that it is better than me taking Darkling Coven allegiance. I still like the lore, so my Darklings will come from Anvilgard. I understand why they changed it, but I'm sad I can't use both now. It was fun.

[Uncas]

53 minutes ago, sirflukesalot said:

you can still use the allegiance "darkling covens" BUT you have to use the grand alliance abilities to be able to use anvilgard ones as well

Exactly what I said.

[Kaleun]

It just came to me that the Black Arc Corsairs are now the cheapest Horde-Unit of Order. They dont have a very good warscroll, but you get 40 for just 260 points.
We could fill a 400 point contingent of allies with:

40 Corsair, 1 Fleetmaster and a Chariot.

However the Chariots are even more interesting for an Anvilguard army. They have very large Bases, which make you wrap around enemy units easier. They have a very good movement (even better with the realmreaver Battlion) and you could set multiples of them as one unit.

A new approach: (2000 Points OSerpentis+SPriv) -> 3 drop army

Allegiance: Order Serpentis

Leaders
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- General
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Trait: Master of Defense
- Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
Dreadlord On Black Dragon (320)
- Lance of Spite & Tyrant Shield
- Artefact: Obstinate Blade

Battleline
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
- Order Serpentis Battleline
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
- Order Serpentis Battleline
2 x Drakespawn Chariots (200)
- Order Serpentis Battleline
5 x Drakespawn Knights (160)
- Order Serpentis Battleline

Units
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (300)
- Allies

Behemoths
War Hydra (200)

Battalions
Ebondrake Warhost (160)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 300 / 400

we have 5 Chariots now. Dont expect any damage from them. Their true power comes from their Basesize and their movement in conjunction with the Anvilguard special ability.

After thinking about it again, it might me even better to raid only one flank of the enemy instead of wasting time trying to pincer him completely. The goal is here to force the oponents units via the 6" flee-move, into running into each other. I guess he may not move through his own units.

 

PS: make it a 2 drop army by droping one dragon and exchange it for 5+5 additional Drakespawn Knights

Edited October 13, 2017 by Kaleun

[rokapoke]

52 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

It just came to me that the Black Arc Corsairs are now the cheapest Horde-Unit of Order. They dont have a very good warscroll, but you get 40 for just 260 points.

FYI, Skinks are a mere 200 points for 40.

[Kaleun]

1 hour ago, rokapoke said:

FYI, Skinks are a mere 200 points for 40.

I stand corrected.

[BlackCalder]

I've been looking at Anvilgard for a starter army since delves/the birdy-riding stormcast rangers are my favourite order factions. I was thinking something like this for an easy 1k from models I've (mostly) already got:

Lord-Aquilor as general (for teleporting with his command ability).

2x10 Darkshards for battleline (could be turned into dreadspears easy enough)

Sorceress on foot

20x Corsairs with sword and dagger.

5 Vanguard-Hunters

3 Vanguard-Palladors

Which comes to 1000 exactly iirc, does it look viable? Any advice about command traits/items from people who've played more would be appreciated too.

[Kaleun]

23 hours ago, BlackCalder said:

I've been looking at Anvilgard for a starter army since delves/the birdy-riding stormcast rangers are my favourite order factions. I was thinking something like this for an easy 1k from models I've (mostly) already got:

Lord-Aquilor as general (for teleporting with his command ability).

2x10 Darkshards for battleline (could be turned into dreadspears easy enough)

Sorceress on foot

20x Corsairs with sword and dagger.

5 Vanguard-Hunters

3 Vanguard-Palladors

Which comes to 1000 exactly iirc, does it look viable? Any advice about command traits/items from people who've played more would be appreciated too.

Looks good. Personally I dont have experience with those Stormcast units, more with the dark elves in your army. The Corsairs are a bit underwhelming and would rather serve as blocker as would Dreadspears. I wouldnt play Dreadspears after their point increase. Better keep them as Darkshards to support your Corsairs. The Teleport behind enemy lines might be very useful.

Have you played a game yet?

Anvilguard might increase its efficiency with bigger games. Two reasons I see for that argument: 1) in Bigger games it might be easier to trap enemy units or force them to run against each other and 2) The Implacable march triggers on a 5+ that means 1/3 chance of success. In bigger games it might be easier to be in contact with 3 units to trigger the ability statistically every round.
Thats what I think.

[GammaMage]

Are the Corsairs useful if you take the melee weapons and play them in a big block to activate their +1 to hit rolls? I am thinking about buying the Anvilgard box set, but I dunno if it's worth it. If the Corsairs were battleline outside of Scourge allegiance, I'd probably get the box, but as it stands the box has no generic battlelines in it...