themortalgod

Its basically a weaker version of the reg keeper for the same points. (aka GW's way of saying "don't use it we want you to buy the new model")

Its a nice model and all but I will be using Creature Caster. I like them just as much for like 40% less money.

For sure, though, I think the Twins are better suited for that role.

Pretty sure they did it so it is less obvious that Slaanesh has by far the fewest options of any of the 4 gods. If you think about it, we have 6 warscrolls from 1 kit (chariots), likely for the same reason. GW decided not to bother with a mortal Slaanesh release and didn't want to expand the Daemon side beyond adding heroes. Thus they needed to do something to make the army seem more diverse than it actually is. If you got to the store and count how many unique "unit" or "hero" kits we have the number you will reach is 11. Compare to: Tzeentch: ~20 Khorne: ~30 Nurgle: ~20 This is basically "half a release" for an army that has been largely neglected for 20 years. It sucks, but it is the reality. GW doesn't want to invest in Slaanesh because they are afraid the army won't sell well. (That said, the army has effectively always been neglected which one could argue might be a cause for selling poorly. Bit of a paradox)

All depends on pts costs. Also, the skaven terrain and endless spells are magnitudes more powerful than what we got. I'm not going to freak out or anything until I see the book in its entirety but I am certainly going from super excited to super nervous now. Like my exalted keeper just went down over 60% in offensive threat. Many of these nerfs aren't trivial. It is going to take a lot to offset them.

So based on what I've seen able to find so far: Exalted Chariot - Better Normal Chariots - Lateral Move Daemonettes - Nerfed Seekers - Slightly Better Fiends - Nerfed Exalted Keeper - Mega nerfed Hellstrider - 6 Feet Under Herald - Nerfed Shalaxi - Meh Twins - Awesome Masque - Better fighter, lost utility Fiends - Pts hike Keeper - A bit better Anyone else feeling less optimistic all of a sudden but hoping once more pts values leak that maybe a bunch of stuff went down in cost?

Disciples of Tzeentch currently have ~30 different warscrolls (not counting StD stuff that can have Tz keyword) A Daemons only Slaanesh based on only the stuff revealed so far would be ~20 different warscrolls. (Though, even at that, that number is inflated because of all the chariot variants which are all essentially the same thing just slightly different) This either suggests more stuff is coming, or that Slaanesh will be smaller than the other gods in terms of release size.

So been playing around with list ideas that allow me to drop the big monster for a game or two. I came up with this idea, not sure how well it will work as it won't create as much depravity but this is a ton of super hard hitting units thanks to the double choir. Side note: Is two of the same battalion even allowed? I haven't seen anywhere published saying that it isn't. Exalted Seeker Chariot - 160pts - General, Gryph Feather Charm, Allure of Slaanesh, Supremely Vain Infernal Enrapturess - 120pts - Icon of Infinite Excess Infernal Enrapturess - 120pts - Rockjaws 30x Daemonettes - 280pts 10x Daemonettes - 100pts 5x Hellstriders - 100pts 5x Seekers - 120pts 5x Seekers - 120pts 6x Fiends - 320pts 6x Fiends - 320pts Choir of Torments - 120pts Choir of Torments - 120pts Total: 2000pts

Yeah, more or less. Though Orruks can bring some nasty MWs if they want to. For example, a double Maw crusher list can bellow you into the ground. Also, Orruk to hit rolls are pretty poor in general outside their heroes. Remember -3 to hit is only helpful if they already are 3+ or better to hit. Just gotta judge it game by game I guess. If it was a tournament where I had to choose beforehand, I'd probably go with scale. In most situations -2 to be hit and 4+ save vs MWs is going to get more mileage than -3 to be hit. That said, there is also the consideration that Gryph feather gives -1 against shooting so if you are up against a gunline it can be very valuable.

I tend to run her with Allure and Scale of Ignax. With hellstriders nearby that makes her -2 to be hit with a 4+ save vs MW, does a good job of keeping her alive. Though I have also experimented with Allure + Gryph feather which gives her -3 to be hit making her utterly invincible in close combat but super vulnerable to magic.

I think Raging Heroes' Centaurs work better as fiends personally. That is what I use.

Yup, they are the only unit in the game that can hold an object while being completely invincible. (Though it would be a ****** move to take advantage of it)

I don't feel they are quite as bad as many players would lead to believe. They certainly aren't top tier or even mid tier so you won't be seeing them in many competitive environments but in terms of power level I wouldn't put them below Ironjawz, BCR, or Overlords. They have some mega downsides in the form of lack of true allegiance abilities, battalions, spells, items, etc but they still enjoy some really solid units which can help keep them in the game. Chariots are still fantastic. Don't expect them to ram through enemy armies on their own but my experience with chariots, even in 2.0 has been fantastic. Being able to bring back a chariot per unit per turn makes them such potent tarpits. TK on Exalted Chariot (aka Settra) is in some ways better than ever now that he can have items and command abilities. Ethereal Amulet on him is particularly fantastic. Ushabti are very competitive for their pts cost. They hit hard and against the right units are super resilient. Standard Skeletons are still fantastic for the pts. Unfortunately, though, most of the cool modern units are really lackluster. Sphynx as way overcosted, as are Tomb Guard. Necro Knights are ok but nothing special at their current pts cost. Stalkers are pretty bad. I have also had some success with a Tomb Queen list that buys a bunch of extra CP and a ton of archers to make for a ridiculously dangerous shooting phase. One of TK's biggest strengths though is that they are so uncommon. Most opponents go into the game with little or no sense of target priority or how to play against the army. This helps mitigate the weaknesses of the force.

Yeah, my main feeling is that you only really want the footslogger ones in a Tzaangor coven where the speed means nothing since you need to stay close to the Tzaangor on foot unit anyway.

So I've been thinking about Tzaangor Enlighted on foot ever since the BoC Battletome came out. Before putting them on foot was never even considered an option because you were paying the same points for an objectively inferior unit but now that they have different pts costs the conversation becomes much more interesting. As it stands you are paying a 40% pts hike to hop on a disc with TE (Tzaangor Enlightened). Is it worth the extra pts in all situations? For comparison purposes, I am going to compare a 9 man unit of TE on foot (300pts) to a 6 man unit of TE on disc (280pts) They are almost the same cost which makes the comparison reasonably close and is a realistic comparison to a decision you may make during the army building. For the sake of damage comparison, I am presuming they are all able to attack a target with a 5+ save and no additional defenses. In addition, I am only accounting for the base profile, no guided by the past. TE on Foot: 27 wounds ( +12.5%) 15.8 damage (-7.6%) 6" move (-62%) TE on Disc 24 wounds 17.1 damage 16" move On the surface, in a nutshell, with Tzaangor on foot you get a tougher unit that does slightly less damage but is a lot slower for slightly more pts. Based on this alone it suggests that in most cases TE on Disc are usually the better option. But this isn't the whole story. Both have a few other pros that are less mathematical that are also worth considering. TE on Foot Larger unit footprint. This is both a pro and a con. The con is that the unit is more unwieldy, especially due to its slowness but also in terms of being able to ensure every model gets to fight. The 2" reach with their spear helps but doesn't necessarily solve the problem. The benefit, however, is that a larger unit is able to enjoy larger coverage for their 'Babbling Stream of Secrets" ability which, in some situations can actually have a pretty big impact. Tougher relative to their cost means that they can make better use of Guided by the Past. TE want to take hits before they hit back. An uninjured unit of TE on disc may do more damage comparatively but in many situations, that unit will also lose effectiveness faster when they wait for opponents to attack before they do. Better at holding objectives. Once on an objective TE on foot are better at holding that objective because their model count is higher and they are harder to kill. In contrast, they are worse at reaching the objective due to their slowness. TE on Disc The vast increase in speed allows them to always be where they need to be. The addition of the daemon keyword. Which is also a pro and a con. The pro is that they can make use of Daemon specific buffs or benefits. The most common being Fold Reality which most of the time will completely offset their lower wounds count but sometimes can be catastrophic. The downside, however, is that some armies, such as SCE gain additional benefit when fighting daemons. Often doubling MW output from certain abilities. This is actually a massive consideration as SCE is the most common army in most metas. It is also worth noting that gaining the daemon keyword has more benefit in a Disciple of Tzeentch army than in a Beasts of Chaos army. Based on the above the decision becomes much more 'muddled' and situational. We are starting to see it become less about which is objectively better and more about which is situationally better. This question compounds further once we introduce warscroll battalions Skyshoal Coven The point is pretty moot here as the coven requires that you choose to ride discs but it is worth noting that if you ever intend to try that battalion out, don't put your TE on foot. Tzaangor Coven In contrast, however, in a Tzaangor Coven, TE on foot become more desirable than their mounted counterparts in most situations for two reasons. The first reason being that since the battalion's main benefit depends on the TE being close to the standard Tzaangor unit to gain benefit you likely will rarely find yourself taking advantage of the TE on Disc speed since you have to go slow enough so the other boys can keep up. Thus you are paying for a huge increase in speed you won't be using. But also because the buff to vicious beaks that the Battalion provides increases in value with more beak attacks which you gain when having a larger number of TE on foot for the same pts cost. Phantasmagoria of Fate Very little benefit either way here but it is worth noting that the increased speed means that the TE on Disc are more likely to be deeper into enemy territory and possibly in a better position to unbind spells. Conclusion As a whole, TE on Foot and TE on Disc a reasonably competitive depending on the situation. The choice isn't nearly as clear-cut as before. However, it is worth considering that you are going to be paying 1/3 more in terms of dollars to actually buy the models as well for a very similar choice so that is often going to be a consideration for many people. I'd love to hear what everyone else feels about this. If any of my math above is wrong, please do tell me, I could have a made a mistake and if there are any factors I have overlooked I would love to here. I am still pretty much on the fence about the two as I feel this analysis doesn't have a clear cut winner. On another side note, though, I wish GW gave the option for Skyfires to be on foot. The mobility certainly makes Skyfires very good but having a unit that is strictly for shooting would add another interesting dynamic.

This is actually only true in a theoretical void. Behemoth Heroes often provide an incredibly potent level of offensive force in a very focused area. If I charge in with a VLoZD I can count on swinging with 100% of his combat force. It is very rare that a blob of 40 skeletons can say the same. In fact, in most cases, you won't even be swinging with half of the unit. On top of that, the VLoZD is actually tougher if you kit him out correctly. For example, with mystic shield and ethereal amulet, the VLoZD takes a ridiculous amount of offensive firepower to fell compared to how fast skeletons crumble. There is also the factor of mobility, just like how skeletons never are really able to bring to bear their full combat effectiveness, they are also wretchedly slow. They are a slow moving hammer that melts quickly while the VLoZD is a fast moving hammer that can withstand heavy onslaught. Not to say skeletons are bad or anything, they are awesome, but to try to compare 1:1 pts value to a VLoZD is not a good comparison. They have completely different roles to fill. VLoZDs are seeing plenty of top-tier play. They are a very strong unit. Back to OP. Personally, I feel Black Knights are far superior to hexwraiths. Hexwraiths don't actually have much of a role. They don't hit very hard and their MWs are negligible. (in a more abstract sense, they are tougher spider riders at a much higher pts cost) Imo they are overpriced and aren't so much faster than Reapers that it is worth taking them over Reapers. In comparison, Black Knights also hit like wet noodles (even more so) but they fill a battlefield role that is actually unique, which is bringing the -1 Bravery aura on a fast moving unit that is cheap. When properly taken advantage of that can really stack up value over the course of game. Especially if you are running things like a Mortis Engine or Banshees but even watching extra models flee can quickly show its value. Black Knights drive my Ironjawz opponents insane, for example, as they are constantly causing an extra, expensive, 3 wound Brute to run off. Blood Knights, however, are utter garbage outside of legion of blood and are still pretty bad inside it. They can hit like a truck on the charge but if they are denied said charge they are pretty useless.

Step 1: airbursh armour plating. Paint is as if one solid piece of metal so dont worry about a second color for edging. Step 2: cover armour plating with sticky tack step 3: Airbrush skin step 4: remove tack and nuln oil everything. step 5: minor additional details and highlighting as much as you want. step 6: varnish and bases

Not unless they get a big pts reduction in GH2018. They are really inefficient for their cost atm.

Black Knights, Spirit Hosts, Dire Wolves, and/or Skeletons.

I feel like the dilemma is that if you want to run a bunch of summonables then you are just better off running other legions. I agree, though, there is room for terrorgheists to do work in LoB, esp comboed with banner debuffs, overwhelming dread, and gnashing jaws. Personally, I plan to run some summonables in my LoB army though. I feel like Black Knights are sleeper OP for LoB since they can bring the -1 bravery banner aura up the field really fast. Banshees, however, feel too slow too me for LoB, their scream just doesn't have enough range for an army that wants to be fast.

Personally, im surprised they reprinted soulblight in LoN. They way I see it is that soulblight effectively became Legion of Blood.

imo swap out something so you can run some black knights for fast moving additional -1 bravery debuff aura. It also might be worth grabbing the gnashing jaws spell for more bravery debuffing.

One major con: Spirit hosts are hosed by -1 to hit debuffs which are pretty common in the game. -1 to hit for most models will be between 25% and 50% reduction in damage output. For spirit host that number is over 75%.