Ganigumo

With faction specific core battalions now, there was literally no reason to get rid of warscroll battalions. They could've easily rewritten the rules around them to give less free benefits (like artefacts, dropping together, and the CP), and they easily could've written generic warscroll battalions that any army could take. Plus axing warscroll battalions didn't actually make the game more balanced, it just shifted things around. The new system will actually be more prone to breaking things, since the unit compositions are more flexible, and there are no point costs involved. They've already shown they're willing to use unique effects with the GHB ones too. When they first announced core battalions that's what I had hoped they did, warscroll battalions that any army could take like: 1 hero with 7 or less wounds + 1 battleline unit of 3 or more models, if the hero is within 3" of the unit they get a retinue shrug 1 hero + 2-3 non-hero monsters: commands issued by the hero of this battalion can affect units within the range of the command ability, instead of wholly within etc....

If you're playing with fanatics make very sure they won't get unleash hell'd when they charge. almost any shooting can tear through 5 wounds on a 6+, even with a -1 to hit. So use them against things that can't use unleash hell, or charge the grots in first.

Enhancements are a new system, so I imagine they would want to play around with using them in interesting ways, especially for one of the first books. I imagine they're formatted to be "pre-game" tricks that give you a benefit once per battle, rather than one-turn effects, so stuff like ambushing units, or laying down traps on objectives/terrain.

I would almost be willing to bet money dirty tricks are a type of enhancement.

Spider riders have mortal wounds on 6's to hit as well. A good rule on a bad chassis is like polishing a ******, and mortals on 6's to hit are only really valuable when a unit has rerolls or can stack high numbers of attacks. The only unit we've seen that can really get a lot of mileage out of the rule is gutrippaz, but in order to do that you need at least 20 with a shaman, which is 485 points to deal 13-14 mortal wounds, and negligible normal damage. 20 Wardens can put out that kind of damage for 290 points, and are similar in durability(half the wounds, but the save is better and they have access to consistent -1 to be hit, plus aetherquartz lets them stack against rend easily). Bolt Boyz don't even come close to being as efficient as sentinels either, with worse range, less bodies on objectives, less wound efficiency, and worse output without a shaman to back them up (at which point 3 will be slightly better than 10 sentinels). From what I've seen of Kruleboyz rules so far the rules make you jump through hoops and add inconsistency into things other armies just get, why do they need to have so many restrictions on getting a -1 to hit? Gutrippas need to be out of combat AND beat bravery on a 2d6, the subfaction requires a die roll of a 6+(lol) or a 4+ for monsters, and the mount trait shown off only works in the literal worst case scenario. This isn't the first book written this way either, some of the weaker books like BoC have the exact same issue, "jump through hoops to get the same buffs other armies get for free". If you need to work for the buffs, or they're inconsistent like they are here they better be stronger than what other armies get or you're already at a disadvantage. Maybe Kruleboyz will be mid tier, but based on how the rules we've seen so far are written I expect them to be low-mid.

Newest GHB has done away with separate unit tables for warclans stuff, so its all just warclans, and Gitz were updated to have warclans as an ally replacing bonesplitterz and greenskins (who went to legends). So we can use bonesplitterz, Ironjawz, or Kruleboyz as allies now.

I've been reading through and thinking about the rules more as we've talked. RAW: The horror ability triggers when the model is slain, but happens when the model is removed from play(this is poorly written for 3.0). The model isn't removed from play until all damage is allocated (so damage shouldn't bleed through) There is uncertainty in whether slain models are removed 1 at a time, or all at the same time, since the rules don't specify. If models are removed one at a time we add the blues/brims as we remove models. If models are removed as a whole we remove the slain models as a group, then add the blues/brims, but if we're forced to remove the entire unit (i.e a unit of 10 pinks takes 10 damage) we can't actually add the blues/brims because the unit has been destroyed. These rules just don't function RAW, and both possible outcomes are terrible. Getting our splitting without damage bleed pushes horrors into one of the most overpowered scrolls in aos history (not that they weren't already amazing), and the other makes them worthless. Its also clearly not how they're intended to function based on how they're pointed. Horrors with no damage bleed should easily be over 300 points(possibly as high as 350). Horrors that get wiped out if the current models go down should probably drop under 200. Horrors that function identically to their aos2 version should be ~250 (just based roughly off tzeentch's average unit cost increase), but they're 215, so GW obviously thought something about them got worse enough to justify a decrease that even stuff like kairics and tzaangors weren't spared from. Like seriously LITERALLY nobody should even WANT to play the horrors as RAW in their current state, they're either awful or make old release slaanesh look fair. TO's aren't even interpreting the rules here, they're coming up with a solution that isn't cancerous since GW hasn't addressed the issue and there's no way you could hold an event and use the RAW in this case. "2.0 rules with worse healing" is a pretty fair interpretation of RAI in lieu of an official errata as the change to how horrors fundamentally function seems unintentional, and even in 2.0 healing horrors was pretty disgusting and probably should've been addressed by GW at some point.

Yeah I know now it says after removing the slain model, but that made sense in 2.0's rules since the model was removed when it was slain, now it isn't removed until all damage has been inflicted so the sequence is broken. Like what happens if the unit is destroyed before you place the blues/brims? you can't add models to a destroyed unit, and there's no rule saying you remove the models one at a time, so another reading could be if you kill all the pinks in one go nothing splits because by the time you're finally resolving the ability the unit has already been destroyed. Horrors just don't work RAW period. It's not an interpretation issue, and TO's either need a ruling or need to ban them. I think the middle ground they chose is fine until we get an actual ruling, as literally nobody in good faith should be interpreting horrors to be mini morathi's or not getting to split at all if everything is slain. The rule on how healing works is also understandable when you consider they had a point drop over an edition change despite across the board increases across armies, higher than average increases in their own faction, and they were one of the best units from that faction (and one of the most efficient units in the entire game). The point drop here was obviously to compensate for something they lost, and honestly the interaction between healing and horrors had always been toxic. Starting size is more likely the intent because "max reinforced size" isn't a static number that's defined anywhere (it's also variable and would lead to situations like summoned units having lower maximum sizes), It could be the max reinforced size, but it would be bad design.

The rule is just broken. Maximum unit size isn't actually defined anywhere in the rules (or the errata) so we have to assume it's the starting size since that's what is implied in the rules and errata. This part needs a "house rule" because its just missing from the rules. Slain models: This section means the model is slain before it is removed from play. Split and Split Again: Split and Split again triggers when the model is slain, not when it is removed from play. RAW this would mean that blues/brims get added to the unit as damage is applied to the unit, since the pinks/blues are being slain. However, this also means that if there is no room to place the model within 1" of the position the slain model had occupied (which will happen because of how coherency forces you to clump up your models) you just don't get to place them at all. So RAW you need to place the blues/brims before the pinks/blues are removed, but they can seemingly go over their max size for any reason (including healing).

Are there many lists running double battle regiments? It seems like an easy way to hit 2 drops consistently if you don't need an enhancement.

I've gotten 2 games in so far. One as spiderfang vs khorne mortals, and one as BoC vs soulblight (this one was 2500 points on the old board size) and got demolished in both by casual lists (not that surprising given what I was playing) Had fun playing regardless. Games definitely took longer but I'm not sure if that's just learning new rules or not. My biggest complaint is still coherency. It's just a pain to play with and takes up way too much headspace when moving/piling in, plus the change doesn't really bring anything positive to the game. Grand strategies are boring, battle tactics are neat. Gitz and BoC were already low tier armies that got slammed by the changes. Non archaon khorne also got hurt bad as even bloodreavers are on 32s and their priests went from 3 prayers a turn to 1. Yeah FeC might've got hit hard but they're nowhere near BoC (or spiderfang) Levels of bad. FeC just doesn't really have any proper answers to shooting.

Finally Got a game in with the spiders on tts tonight, it wasn't pretty. I played against khorne mortals on first blood and just got bowled over. I know spiderfang is weak but the new changes this edition are really rough. Spider riders were hurt bad by coherency, and arachnaroks are still painfully slow. My defensive webspinner was taken out in a single turn, although it did take some lucky rolls from a wrath axe. The list: Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz - Option: Grimscuttle Tribes - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Leaders Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295) - General - Command Trait: Prophet of da Spider God - Artefact: Shyishan Spider-sigils - Lore of the Spiderfangs: Scuttling Terrors Webspinner Shaman (85) - Lore of the Spiderfangs: Gift of da Spider God Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (105) - Artefact: Totem of the Spider God Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295) - Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact) - Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95) - Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork Madcap Shaman (80) - Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance Battleline 5 x Spider Riders (100) 10 x Spider Riders (200) - Reinforced x 1 10 x Spider Riders (200) - Reinforced x 1 Behemoths Skitterstrand Arachnarok (200) Skitterstrand Arachnarok (200) Endless Spells & Invocations Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50) Scuttletide (85) Core Battalions Warlord Warlord Additional Enhancements Artefact Artefact Total: 1990 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 124 I want to play with skitterstrands a bit more this edition. I think they've got good potential at scoring some extra points for battle tactics, even if their damage doesn't hold up. Scuttletide feels way weaker, i know it was undercosted before, but it's harder to block movement now because models can move through it, and if it's not controlled your opponent will get a chance to move it before they move. The grimscuttle CA being spiderfang locked actually was a pain this game, there was a couple times where it would've been useful but I only had a moonclan hero nearby. Had a good time despite the stomping, still trying to formulate my thoughts on 3e and this was a good learning experience.

Big stabbas could be useful? Allies are just straight warclans now too so we could get some Ironjawz although nothing jumps out at me. Unfortunately we can't fit a warchanter & 6 pigs or 10 brutes into 400 points anymore. Maybe some of the kruleboyz boltboyz (and eventual ballista) could be pretty useful though. We could even garrison them in the loonshrine.

You'd have 135 points left over once the chaos sorcerer lord is removed. (115 + extra 20) Blue scribes would fit (although you wouldn't get an artefact or CT which is the problem) You could swap out the sorc lord for a changecaster, fatemaster or Magister (on foot) without making any other changes.

Yeah thats the artefact. Nothing wrong with the SD + AoD combo, but the artefact gives extra redundancy for the moon effect, and our best damage combo is the moon effect + the webspinner on arachnarok's spell. It effectively quadruples the mortal wounds we get out of a unit.

Hosts duplicitous is fine, horrors seem just as good as they've always been and in general damage seems to have gone down a bit thanks to the coherency changes, defensive abilities, and reinforcement limits. Loss of changehost hurts but big blobs of horrors are still going to be great at holding objectives.

Not quite sure where they're gonna land. Kairics went up a lot comparably to the rest of the game (25 points or 25% increase) especially for a unit that wasn't dominant or saw a lot of high level play. Pyrofane cult losing the battalion that let a unit of kairics shoot in the hero phase is also a big deal I think. I think they were a solid mid tier army in 2.0, just overshadowed by the stronger tzeentch builds but I don't have a good feel for if they've dropped significantly.

True enough. In aos2 10 fully buffed could put out around 16 damage, mostly as mortal wounds so you could hit some elite units pretty hard but spider riders have gotten hit by the edition changes. Might be worth looking into taking the banner of the spider god as an artefact? Although a webspinner on arachnarok with sneaky distraction and amulet of destiny is going to be very durable. Consider making the other arachnarok your general, and giving them the grimscuttle artefact, since you'll be able to stack up the bravery bonus auras (webspinner gets a +2 bravery bonus aura within 24" if it's the general) although in the new edition I can see the benefit of having your general be very durable. Not sure how Arachnaroks are going to fare in the new edition just yet but with all the secondaries that monsters score extra on skitterstrands might have extra value for getting them where you need them. Could be worth upping a few unit sizes maybe? Rockguts are pretty damn durable now if you have a hero to give them all out defense, and 6 would make a solid anvil, especially if backed by an arachnarok with sneaky distraction. Spider riders in 5s won't do damage (although they don't do a lot in 10 either) but before the edition dropped @JackStreicher posted this "egg attack formation" that lets you get 9/10 small ovals within 1"

Yeah Tzeentch is definitely still top tier, although it's possible our only top tier list now will be hosts arcanum archaon. Horrors are still super efficient, and our magic is great. The flamer hits and changehost removal might've brought our eternal conflagration lists down a bit, but we should have the tools to play an A tier daemon list at least. Arcanites got hit pretty hard again, but guild of summoners got a big buff in the spell lores enhancement and new cogs. GoS can run mixed mortal/daemon too. Probably not top tier, maybe B tier now? You can still get a lot of bodies on the board if you run pinks/gaunt summoners. Cult of the Transient form is D tier, maybe F tier. They were already pretty bad (although I personally love the narrative of it) as they didn't get a rule saying they could add models over the max size. So now not only do you need a kairic to die in the combat phase within 9" of a tzaangor unit and roll a 6, you also need that tzaangor unit to have taken casualties.

Fw points are published in the monstrous arcanum (which was listed as a legal source in the ghb). Just need to wait and see what FW does though.

They reprinted all the white dwarf rules with a few fixes (like not being able to bring back a hag) in broken realms kragnos. Loonshrine got an extra update with our aos 3 faq that makes it garrisonable by up to 30 models. We can actually take ironjawz allies now based on the allies table. Not sure if anything is worth taking but it's interesting.

Probably just applies to runs and retreats but it might need an errata.

Reconsider black fang on the scuttleboss you can only trigger one effect on a trigger, not both. Might still be fine but we can't do 1+d3 mortals anymore. The banner is pretty useful as an alternative.

I don't want to restart this stupid edgeshooting argument, but if this edition and faq has shown us anything it's that "slain" triggers were never intended to work when a model flees. They went through hoops to make this explicitly clear, to the point where they went too far and wrote the rules in a way that we needed to count slain and fled models separately and we're still trying to argue slain triggers activate when a model flees. "Models that have fled are treated as having been slain" is not the same thing as "they are slain". Interpret it how you want, but it will 100% come down on the side of it doesn't trigger when they flee when we get an FAQ, if we even need one for this.

Honestly mournfang should've counted as 4 and gotten the better ogor charge at 4 models from the start.