Kasper

The core rules for "slain models" and "battleshock" read significantly different. The text for "slain models" reads that the models are slain as in dead, then removed from the table. For battleshock the rules read that the models are removed from the table (not slain/dead), but following that they count as slain - For the purpose of kill points etc.

I think there is a significant difference between people playing this hobby, which is ultimately to have fun and socialize, and people doing extradoinary work within their field, which is ultimately driven by earning higher salaries/bonuses.

Wont Hermdar CA ignore that and have them fight once at the start?

I find it a lot of fun on a unit of 6 pigs If you pop the Waagh ability for +1 attack and the Waagh Banner for another +1 attack, you're looking at almost 75 attacks from the 6 pigs, hitting on 2s, wounding on 2s (with reroll 1s from banner), half at -1 and 2 damage each. How do you deal with stuff like Plague Monks or Fyreslayers? Wont the Fyreslayers just fight first and kill your stuff? Plague Monks are also cheaper, so feels like a bad trade when they get to fight back upon death. As said I haven't fought either of those lists, so wouldn't know the outcome.

The one with Waagh Banner or the second with Wurrgog?

That is quite interesting. As an IJ player, when I look at the BW list compared to the Skaven one, I don't see how the Skaven list will win. Seems like a fairly straight forward match with no threats the BW list can't handle.

Haha, fair enough man. I'm just genuinely curious how you determine if it is weak or not, just like that.

I bought 4 I haven't seen lists running 3 or 4 Warchanters, but you could probably kitbash/convert them to Weirdnobs or even a Megaboss on foot to get max value out of the boxes. I mean you can do it without 4x3 pigs, but the general playstyle of dual MK is to shove them in your opponents face turn 1 and start chewing through stuff. If you win the double turn you get to slap him in the hero phase, then the combat phase. Most of his army will be dead by now. Slow units don't really benefit you, so to play optimally you want the pigs to run along and join in on the fun.

The fact that DD no longer autopasses battleshock for Horrors is gonna be quite a big thing. You often don't need to remove the entire unit in 1 round of combat due to battleshock, unless the Tzeentch player is keeping a hero super close. Even a DD of 1 shouldn't matter since you have likely removed the banner bearer. In the cases where Tzeentch throws 1 unit of 20 Horrors, he will keep you back in turn 1 but they will all die to battleshock since he wont have another hero within range. With "only" 1 teleport he wont be able to make another layer and risk some severe punch if you win the double.

Must be some mastermind spreadsheet to determine that. What makes you think the IJ list is weak? The Skaven list doesn't seem "significantly stronger".

Been running a heavy combat focused (largely IJ) BW army with great success for a while, although nobody in my local play Skaven or Nurgle with Plague Monks and we really only have 1 guy with Fyreslayers, so there really haven't been many matchups where the green boys can't munch the enemy in melee. I'm starting to want to participate in tournaments where there will be a much bigger range of armies/lists, and because of this I thought of leaning a bit more into magic with a Wurrgog. I'm a bit hestitant how much you should invest into Endless Spells though and worry it will gnaw too much into the overall wounds of the army. Is the Wurrgog fine on his own, or do you want to extend his range? I have thought of this list below. Alternatively you could skip out on the Balewind and Spellportal and upgrade the 5 Ardboyz to a unit of 10. Maybe replace the Spellportal with Purple Sun against stuff like OBR/Fyreslayers. Overall I feel like the rest of the army is really set in stone - Both MK and 6 Pigs buffed will chew through pretty much anything. I love the threat of the teleport from the Shaman and I really feel he easily makes his points back by how much people spend on zoning their side of the board. The Ardboyz are largely screens to prevent alphastrikes, but are also there to run forward and chew through the enemys chaff, forcing their big key units to come out and play, then get countercharged by MK/6 pigs and die. Everything just feels good and works on the table. In general I'm a very defensive player and you will likely never see either the MK or 6 pigs be shot up the board in turn 1 - They will wait behind the screens usually.

From what I have seen, people with double Maw Krusha typically run 4x3 pigs, 2 MK, 2 warchanter and then the ironfist batallion and CP.

Their armor etc. just looks a lot more defined. The way the Bloodbowl team is made makes them look a lot more in line with our other models. I really don't like the look of the Ardboyz. Their armor is way too smooth for me. Their pose also looks very static - Reminds me of warhammer fantasy where every unit was rank and file. Edit: Looking at them now on google, their armor plates also look very smooth and not bruised like Pigs, Brutes or Megabosses.

Its called "KVISSLE" where I live

Has anyone used the Bloodbowl guys and kitbashed them to be Ardboyz? I looked at a box the other day and was really tempted. I just feel like they will stand out too much compared to the rather static and dull look of normal Ardboyz. I have like 65 normal guys, so feels bad having to throw them all away if they don't really match together at all.

Shaman Weirdnob specific artefact = 4+ in hero phase to gain a CP.

Yeah thats why I prefer GGs or MK for the charge. Teleport them 12.1” away and then move 12” or 9” = 3” away from enemy. If you do it on Brutes or Ardboyz, you are really only gaining 1” (4 movement, so from 12 to 8” away) instead of teleport 9” away. Likely better trying to charge with MD in the hero phase. At least with Ardboyz you get +2, so you are looking at a 6” charge. Feels more reliable.

But what exactly is balance? If AoS had 3 armies of pure rock-paper-scissor, each army would have a “perfect win % and be balanced” according to stats, but the gameplay experience would be onesided and suck for players. That is why I dont give all that much for stats or win %, even though it is always fun to see a new army going straight up to 75% win rate. Some armies are very oppresive but are being kept in check by certain armies when you look at win %, but does that really matter? The above is obviously an oversimplification, but we have all heard the comments that the solution to X army is “just shoot the heroes off the table” - What if your army doesnt have any shooting?

With the introduction of mount traits, you can really draw inspiration from that. With Weird ‘un you could always make up some fluff that he ate a Lord of Change from Tzeentch which would explain that his skin/scales turned into some funky color. 😅

I dont know if you mean to split the current 15 man squad of Ardboyz into further 5s or if you mean you already split a 10 into 2x5 - Just keep in mind only 10+ count as battleline. Also fyi you get 1 banner or glyph per 5, so you have to choose in a 5 man squad. Im personally not a fan of teleporting such a huge unit of Brutes. Rolling a 8+ on 2 dice is rather risky, and if they fail the charge you likely wont have a hero around to reroll it, meaning they will be stranded and die to a countercharge. If I teleport a unit, I want to pretty much ensure it gets into combat, hence why I pick the MK, GGs (Ironfist champ) or Ardboyz as the target.

I feel like you just took parts of my post out of context and decided to comment on it, why? I'll admit I'm not familiar with all of them, but many of them can't be redeployed whilst in combat, or it is some kind of ambush ability from boardedge. I don't feel that's a fair comparison at all, since there are multiple ways to counter those plays (deployement, zoning out, putting a certain unit into combat etc. etc.). KO can be countered - If you deal enough damage they can't redeploy. Hell, if you surround their boat and destroy it, they lose not only the boat but the entire unit inside due to lack of space to deploy. But anyways, as I wrote in the post - 2 free redeployments by themselves might not be the end of the world, despite it being incredibly strong and nobody else got such powerful tools - It is when all the other stuff is layered ontop that creates a monstrosity.

It is a combination of things that makes it nasty. Most teleports are depending on a cast or similar, or you can't redeploy units that are in combat. With Changehost you can just pick 2 units at will and even stuck in combat, leaving your opponent with no counterplay against the mechanic. This on its own probably wouldn't be "too bad" - Seraphon can do it too - But then you factor in all the other stuff Tzeentch has. Add in destiny dice to secure a charge after a redeployment/teleport. Horrors being frankly insane right now is yet another layer of madness, especially with the current rules where you can keep bringing Pinks back despite all the Pinks in the unit being dead and there are only Blues/Brims left. Then you have Flamers with 18" reach, which means you simply can't screen/deploy some key units/monsters out of reach on the majority of battleplans. They don't have to neuter all the abilities/units, but stuff like reducing the range on Flamers would do a lot while keeping them interesting and spicy. Making it so you can't bring back Pinks unless there is at least 1 Pink remaining in the unit would do a lot. Changing the redeployment so it has to be within X" of the LoC would do a lot. Etc.

1. I prefer the normal Megaboss on Maw Krusha since you can give him a command trait and artefact if you go no-clan. Gordrakk is awesome, but unfortunately he just isn't tanky enough and his extra damage against heroes is in my book worthless. Most tanky heroes got an extra save against Mortal Wounds, and heroes that don't have it are usually not tanky enough to withstand the damage from a normal Megaboss on Maw Krusha. Even against stuff like Archaon or Nagash, giving your normal guy a Metalrippers Klaw will put them at 5-6+ saves. Meanwhile he will also be a beast against tanky units. Alternatively you can make him super tanky with either Ignax Scales or Ethereal Amulet. 2. Always the general - Giving him Brutish Cunning is amazing. Alternatively Ironclad if you go for Ignax Scales. 3. Choppas usually unless you go for huge units (10-15), then you might want additional reach instead. I wouldn't pair them with Hand of Gork since getting a 8" charge is unlikely, unless you can proc "Mad as Hell". 4. You can field 1 Glyph OR 1 Banner per 5 Ardboyz. So in a unit of 10 you can have both. In a unit of 15 you can have 2 Banners and 1 Glyph etc. If you fancy 5 man units I would prefer the Banner for +2 bravery rather than -1 to your opponent. 5. Despite many thinking that Ironjawz is just an all-out/alpha/turn 1 charge army, I find that there are many ways you can play the army. If you just go all out in turn 1 I feel you really live or die at the mercy of the double turn roll-off. Ironjawz probably lend itself towards the more aggressive style, where as Big Waagh probably lends itself towards the slightly slower pace.

Pretty much this. I predict the tome having lore that makes it possible for your Seraphon to be starborn/living memories, but also "real" Seraphon that runs around in the mortal realms permamently.

I think its wrong to call Brutes "garbage", and it depends on how you use them. Ardboyz are incredible and offer a lot of versitility and imo. they are slightly better than Brutes, but that doesn't make Brutes "garbage".