Grimbok

GW is pretty happy...maybe, but not many players. So few Sylvanteth left, almost gone from tournaments and also locally... Grimbok

And the batallions.... 140 for Free Spirits...come on. A drop to 80 would help a lot...it’s not worth more than that. The start tax is massive. Outcasts are Ok, but Forest Folk could use a point drop also. Same with household. Grimbok

We need warscroll changes, and many other changes (wyldwoods etc). But for now, point drops could help. But nope... It’s a joke. They have no idea...and playtesters, are they not supposed to help here? Oh, I forgot, playtesters don’t play Sylvaneth, only top level competitive ****** armies... Can’t they do basic math. Blightkings down to 140 (of all nurgle units, these were fine, many other units needed to drop) and Kurnoths (which is our best unit) is 190.... Blightkings are 6,7 points per wound with 4+ save and often 5+ dpr...and with good damage output and sweet batallion. Kurnoths are 12,7 points per wound. It’s double the points for comparable units (elite units)! At least Stormcast got som slight point reductions, that adds up. Won’t help them at top level, but will in casual games... I was hoping for some considerable point reductions to Sylvaneth, to at least have a chance in casual games...and maybe try alternative wyldwood system...but no. Back to Living City and Stormcast... Grimbok

The greatest insult is prosecutors. I have 6 of these converted and painted up with shield and javelin. They look like super human spartans with wings. In combat they are 1 attack, 4+, 4+ no rend 1 dam... serious GW? And they had three attempts at the warscroll. Three! Grimbok

@Sleepa My arguments exactly, just better written 🙂 Grimbok

But that one player is: 1 A very good player 2 Plays Dreadwood, which eliminates many of the inherent issues with the army 3 His competitive armies er weird unfluffy/spammy and does in no way resemble a typical sylvaneth force (which is fair enough, he has to compete in a rough enviroment out there). Try building and playing a “normal” army even in casual games, the battletome simply does not work, it is that badly designed. A rush job. It’s not only about power or the “meta”, many units have no clear role, function og identity on the tabletop. That is what annoys me the most, why can Tree Revenants not fight? They are the main soldiers of the Household? Why can’t treelords fight? What is the meaning of a branchwychs warscroll spell? How come an Arch Revenants boosts Kurnoths, not Tree Revenants? There are so few warsrolls in this army, every single one needs a role. That’s what I like with the Lumineth, each has a useful and specific purpose. (Although there are other major design issues with Lumineth, mortal wound spam, too many negative play experience rules etc). Grimbok

Above average options in everything? Really now? Magic. No...not really. Even non casting KO are better with their spell in a bottle. Sylvaneth have terrible casters, a Goddess that does not even know her spell lore. Actual bad spells in the lore. Anvils...no. Dryads, not really. Depends on woods that are not there. Hitting power. No. Even Kurnoths are worse than most armies hard hitters per point. (But it is all we got). Movement. Except for dreadwood, no. Getting woods down is very hard, unbinding, space etc. I agree that there is a large dissonance. How are Sylvaneth supposed to play? Actually it is hard to say. Mixed arms force, hit at run tactics? Not really where they are at now? Grimbok

Yeah, saw those notes what they really like...that bonkers...if those are playtesters....yikes. Four statements that are complete opposite of fun and just a negative design and play experiene imo. This is why competitive people are not always that good to have playtesting things, it just creates this loop of crazy design, that no casual gamer really needs. It’s even worse in 40 K... Grimbok

A wyldwood errata in GHB would go a long way... haven’t thought about that. GHB would be a good place to fix them... Grimbok

We really need to lay down that “the book is mostly good” attitude at get the message to GW that we need a new book. Both casual and tournament sylvanth is hurting bad... Grimbok

Also, how come our spells are so bad? It’s another kind of level of bad. ToV is good because of branchwraith and spiteswarm hive, but you need a double caster, which we only have in Alarielle. Regrowth is not good, healing is so bad. I often find it hard to cast, or the big models are already dead. The Dwellers below...really GW? Casting value 7? Just insane...deadly harvest...what? Harmony....few casts in army, no bonus to cast, casting value 7. Gnarlroot on big group of hunters? Otherwise...no. Treesong...ehhh.... But we a few good command traits and relics, that we really can’t use in glades...doh. You are really forced in to a battalion just to take spiritson stave, to cast the critical spite swarm og dryad summons...it’s forced design just to compete. Grimbok

I agree with the Ancient is very important in non dreadwood. He is still bad, but you will need the wyldwood. In this casting meta, getting off spells i sylvaneth is extremely difficult. Maybe a backline caster turn one spiteswarm, hope for the best. Otherwise good luck with magic! Sylvaneth are really not good at casting, which is odd... Yes, one og two groups of tree revenants are really good at threatening late game to keep your opponant honest. I just hate that these elite, pricy, great models are reduced to standing at the back, waiting to teleport, but not really doing anything. Not exactly very soldiery... I don’t know about dryads though. 270 for 30 is kind of cheap. Depends on the board really and your wyldwood production. The boards I play have a great deal of terrain, so very limited opportunity for wyldwoods, but when I watch battle reports many boards seem empty with lots of space for the wyldwoods. Maybe they set up terrain to make room for some woods, but then the premise for the army is very different from rules as written... it really seems like you have to ask your opponant permission to play with wyldwoods these days, and I hate that. It should never be a thing, let alone your main allegiance ability... I see dreadwood as the only playable option these days. Drop one wood in your deployment, don’t waste time and resources on generating more woods and focus on actually killing the enemy. Go cheap on spellcasting, no healing etc. Then you can play without all the problems generated by the wyldwoods. Grimbok

How many sylvaneth armies do you see at tournaments? How many at your local club/store? Very few, for a once wildly popular army. It’s a bad book, both for casuals and competitive. Grimbok

Yes, the branchwych leading households of tree revenants and treelords while Arch Revenants buff kurnoths...makes good sense GW....🙄 There is no consistancy in the rules and the fluff. The latest book is a lazy copy/paste rush job and it shows. No depth in the roster (so many badly designed warscrolls), makes little sense fluffwise, little imagination and crazy point values...this book is a hard miss, in an otherwise good period of book design (cities book a month later has so much more depth and exciting options)... I’m a caual player, and the army just doesn’t function in casual. I know some spam lists can work (ish), but they really don’t represent a fluffy sylvaneth army. This book is not fixed by points adjustments...we will have to wait for a new book sadly. Grimbok

Tree Revenants need a complete warscroll rewrite imo. They are in a bad place with no role in the army except hiding 5 of them to teleport late game and hope for the best. They are the soldiers, the warrior caste. Make them two wounds, hitting on 3+ and keep them fairly elite. They come five in a box and are pretty big and on 32 mm, not some spammy cheap infantry. And make them at least move 6”. Then we can have dryads as our one wound cheapish models (chaff, objectives etc ), tree and spites as elite infantry with two wounds and better damage output, but still fragile with 5+ save. And kurnoths as hard hitting tough big guys that are more tanky. Bow hunters need a rework, extremely low damage output, but easy to fix, just more shots or hitting better or more damage, whatever, to make them compare to crossbowmen, irondrakes etc. All treelords have major issues, mostly their damage tables and small dam output. Ancient needs another cast, treelord more damage output, durhu is kind of ok, maybe a dpr save.? 12 wounds seems a bit too low on treemen, 14 wounds would be better in modern AoS, and then keep them pricey. So better and more expensive rather than the treelords race towards 100 point to be usefull. Oh and rework wyldwood completely! I don’t think this book is 75% good. The wyldwood mechanic alone makes this faction extremely difficult, annoying, hard to get into etc... every time I look at my beautiful sylvaneth army, I think about how annoying wyldwoods are, and play Living City or Stormcast instead... Grimbok

It doesn’t really matter. Pretty crappy ability really. Grimbok

Most CoS inits are overcosted, that’s the main problem, in an otherwise great book. My win rate is 25% buts it’s not that far away in adjustments to go towards 50%. Main problrem is too few wounds. I use Longbeards, 11 points per wound is way too expensive. There is no damage output in them. Phoenix Guard is the only point efficient unit in my army, but they are not overly powerful, just really good. I would still take them at 170, maybe 180, but it’s thereabouts. I also use Demigryphs and Wild Riders, they seem slighty overcosted, but otherwise fine units. I actually find the Freeguild General og Griffon the most overcosted, in no way is 320 well costed. Many fine units, great book, just about 10 % overcosted most of the warscrolls. Grimbok

Looks great! How did you create the cobblestones? Grimbok

Agree. Strong and interesting city abilities (some broken combos also), somewhat better warscrolls, but most is just overpriced (except phoenix stuff). My Living City will have the same problem as before, too few units to compete even on casual level unless I go for broken combos. Against summoning (even khorne and nurgle levels) I just seem to lack that ekstra 10% to make it close in the end game. I like the CoS book very much. Some weird warscrolls especially in darkling covens and pirates. Just taking a few of my core units, it’s 130 point more. Griffon from 260 to 320. Why? Demigryphs seem good, but 180 point? More like 160. Longbeards went up 10 % etc...too many 1 wound model units at 160... Some cool units, lots of option. Overall great book. Just cut most prices by 10%. Grimbok

I am with Aryann with this one. Lots of ****** by meta chasing tournament players. Bow kurnoths er grossly overcosted or underpowered. Tree Revenants do not fullfill the role of an elite infantry unit. Five in a box, statline worse than clanrats. Utter garbage as the “soldiers” of the sylvaneth. A unit or two as battleline tax and objective grabber, sure. Nothing more. How sad, for such great models. And I only play casual, using the models because I like them, but tree revs do nothing but a throw away unit. Utter garbage, again forcing us to use crappy old dryad spam, eith old crappy models. Seriously, how can that compete at all against the new armies? Sure, there might be stupid OP combos in the new book, that tournament players will use and say that sylvaneth will be competitive, but for casual players it is just sad. Grimbok

Tree revs hit on 4+, not 3+. Big differene. And you can’t get 10 models to hit a single character. And that’s if you get the charge off. And they just die when they hit back, bravery 6 doesn’t help. They are just not good at 16 points a model. Dryads are more scary in combat, due to better reach. And are more survivable. Tree revs are grossly overpriced or underpowered, simple as that. Most people take 5 to fill battleline and threaten empty objectives... that’s it. A pity really with so beautyful models. Grimbok

Eitther make them like namarti thralls, hard hitting class cannons or make them two wounds. They are pretty big tree/ghost stuff, seems pretty durable. Grimbok

They count as battleline I suppose... Grimbok

Tree revs shouldn’t be a small unit hiding in the back to pressure empty objectives. They don’t do much other than being a slight annoyance. They don’t do enough damage and dies to a stiff breeze. These should be your main battleline troops (they are the soldiers of the sylvaneth) delivering damage. More like namarti thralls style. You should be able to play these as battleline without dryads support imo. Grimbok

A mixed fluffy force. I don’t mind a treelord or two or a group of dryads. But I would also like to include kurnoth hunters (all types) and tree revenants, drycha once in a while etc. A mixed force is fine against half of my opponants, good games. Not against LoN, Maggotkin, Seraphon and sometimes Khorne (when 20 bloodletters drop down late game). It’s power creep and summoning that does it. Classic GW. To counter that, it forces sylvaneth to go down one route to play along (with unfortunate wildwood syndrome added in).Other armies are worse off though, but they need an update too. My fear is because one aspect af Sylvaneth does OK at tournaments, GW thinks the battletome is fine, just minor adjustments... How many years are we gonna wait for Spite and Tree Revenants to be a usefull battleline option? It’s pretty basic stuff. With so few warscrolls in the army, they better hit the mark pretty close with all of them. Fixing wildwoods is of highest priority though. Grimbok