JackStreicher

Such variation

Guess what GW stores do if they need to clear shelf space. The heads up is astronomical. @Gailon Seraphon are one of the worst books Imo. It forces you into shooting and other cheese while entirely neglecting melee combat of Saurus, which were supposed to be an elite infantry. 😕

I imagine 2x30 Bestigors (can they be Battleline) running around with rend -3. well that’s scary.

Most armies should get a 6+ vs mortal wounds anyways tbf. Idk why they keep adding more and more MWs in order to fix their save stacking? It simply nullifies normal damage. I like those changes, it's sad that those are locked to an allegiance ability though (I'd love to use some FS mercenaries)

I've tried a fun list with lots of Grave Guards and 2 Vampire Lords (one martial one arcane). I was able to beat 2 Tournament lists (Knights of the e. Throne and Shootcast eternals) Overall: The new LoB makes foot Vampires more useful and actually worth their points. I am not blown away by Black Knights - still too expensive, a warscroll rewrite would've made sense for them. LoB still isn't that great though. If you want to utilize it I'd recommend at least one caster vampire (mostly for dispelling and delivering an endless spell) and that's it. You could also do well with multiple Zombie Dragons. Edit: About the Legion Trait: It's rather useless. Your Deathrattle has either the issue of dealing no damage, dying in droves or both. A negative modifier to hit is rarely an issue (+1 to wound would be ace...). What this legion would need instead is a +2 movement for deathrattle or a save stat increase of 1 across the board, getting them anywhere is a chore (too slow and too fragile) unless you spawn them from the grave. I know that the designers wanted to make LoB more attractive, however, both Legion Traits (Blood and Kastelei) should be accessible in every Legion imo.

I love that clean look!

@Bruteforce my opinion on skellies is quite the same. in this super elite edition even 30 die too quickly without achieving their role as a tarpit. The fact that they have to take battleshock tests for every model They‘ve lost does not help. imo they‘d either need a better, defensive profile, more protection from battleshock or a bigger minimum size (15-20) to be good. Zombies are much better while also being able to deal damage. The skeleton attacks are more of a gimmick that waste time instead of dealing any damage. @warhammernerd skellies look super good imo. It’s frustrating however to remove all 30 off the board after your opponent swings at them. The same goes for Grave Guard.

I participate in the Warhammer for schools Programm with my pupils (You g people of 16+ years). Let‘s just say that not a single pupil liked the DT, some were really put off and joined the 40K players instead. just to name some citations „what? That’s not fair“, „why!?“, „that sucks“, „I can’t do anything again?“

What do you mean!? One click bundles are just the best: No savings for the customer are THE BEST for GW.

Same, they might still die and flee to easily @DocKeule 30 thralls and 20 Reavers might be all you ever need

Zulu style for a warrior tribe! Why not? the genetalia part: No, it might drift towards racism if u do ^^

The "Ever vigilant" part made me immediately thinkg of Cities of Sigmar or Duardin. To be realistic however: It's going to be Lumineth wave XY....

You jumped to the conclusion that, since chess has no random element one couldn't compare them at all. It does not in this case. If you look at AoS from a distance it is a IGYG System, like chess, in which Models perform certain actions/interactions. Which interactions are perfomed is irrelevant, even how they are performed is irrelevant to this comparison. Both use turns, both have the issue of whoever goes first/ or second has an advantage. AoS's solution: DTs (as people have stated), Chess disagrees. Now enough of chess, it's too often utterly misunderstood as a comparison. Wrong. Not everything is random. Your move stat and other stats are constant. You don't roll for your normal moves. So the base interaction of moving is in its core not random. AoS adds randomness to the game whenever a die roll is required. This factor of randomness varies from the roll required and the sort of Dice being cast (D3 VS D6). the DT is not a random pick of a random element. It is the only random element present in the Turn System, which again, is a seperate thing from model interactions. Does adding a DT add more depth or value to the game? As other, better, older, more sofisticated games have not included such a mechanic, it is implied that it does not. to summarize: It appears likely that the double turn does not fix IGYG issues nor does add more tactical depth according to games that had a way longer period to develop, which never made use of such a mechanic. I don't know where that idea of a predictable game comes from to be honest. No AoS game is entirely predictable due to the randomness factor of model actions/interactions. Let's for a moment assume the DT did not exist: - You get into position to hold an objective on the right, intending to destroy a unit in the middle so you can pose a threat to the opponent's unit trying to take the right objective from you. - You roll badly, fail to slay the unit in the middle -> out of a sudden the whole situation has changed and you have to adapt. It is not predictable in the way you are claiming it to be. Suggesting that AoS is nothing for me is an insult and a bold claim, I'll discard that comment. I like the randomness of AoS, the DT however adds nothing to the game imo, it adds an unfair advantage to a game with a random factor since you can't really plan ahead. If you like the DT it's fine, however it does not belong into the "Matched Play" Category since that mechanic makes games "Mismatched" due to the way it works. I am not sure if this is sarcasm that failed to deliver the message or a serious comment: Did you ever play the game? It died, that had little to to with the initative though, it had lore and other reasons (imo the whole system was just bad, ASoIaF is so much better). Players rolled off at the Start of the game, setting the order of turns for the rest of the battle. This is the way AoS should be. You can actually plan ahead and get an equal amount of phases in a row. Yet there are the same random elements concerning model interactions/actions which make the game rather unpredictable. Tl;dr if you like the DT it's fine, it should be a narrative or open play mechanic but not a matched play mechanic since it makes games mismatched by the way it works.

The comparison is lacking. You are comparing turn sequences to model actions/interactions, which makes no sense. -> comparing apples with bananas. Apples aren’t curved so bananas shouldn’t be as well. This leads to a false conclusion. Having random elements in a game has nothing to do with the turn order which is overarching the game as a whole. It’s also no valid argument to say: We already have random elements so making everything random is the way to solve/improve the game. Which is what you are implying. Adding more (/too much) randomness leads to the Gloomspite/Goblin issue: Everything is random, tactics don’t matter as much since those are very likely to fall apart with a single roll. It’s chaotic. The army might be fun to play this way, but you won’t be able to get good results based on your tactical prowess since randomness is a counterforce to planning ahead. -> One obvious proof to this is the fact that Tournament Players prefer mechanics and armies with as little randomness as possible so their skill in planning ahead matters. You can see this in 40K: D6 damage stats are removed in favor of the more reliable D3+3 damage etc. tl;dr: Other, older, more refined Gaming Systems using the IGYG System did not add a DT to fix or improve the game, which implies that it simply does not fix or improve it. Now let’s step away from chess and have a look at all other more similar games.

It’s kind of irrelevant how exactly chess works. The argument I am making is that the one going first (or second, can’t remember and I don’t care) in chess has an advantage. They did not add a double turn to the system to fix that. Apparently it also doesn’t add more tactical depth as chess players would embrace that. chess has been around for ages and no one had the idea to implement double turns, because that might just be a bad idea. And this goes for all alternating turns/phase systems in games I‘ve ever come to know. Now people are suggesting the DT is good ( the rule-masterminds of GW added it to their game) is funny to me: You do actually remember what they did with Slaanesh, then Tzeentch, then Slaanesh And, oh yes, SCE Dragons? So GW‘s

@Lord Krungharr Imo IGYG is Chess, since you can only move one piece (dictated by the rules) in your turn. So they are moving with the whole force they are allowed to move. If chess had an alternating system there wouldn‘t be turns but one perpetual turn with an endless circle of alternating activations. Alternating activations requires the players to do so within a single overarching turn. (As far as I can tell) The amount of models that is being moved isn’t relevant. You could also have an alternating system in which you move your whole army, then the enemy moves their whole army. Then the next phase starts with shooting etc.

Very true. You either hurry up to get those magical circles on the board or you lose (sorry dwarves, get out of here with your short legs! Don‘t be mad, you are into angular shapes anyway!)

One example of a game with IGYG that did not invent double turns to fix their problems with the system: Chess, or any game apart from AoS really. It might be worth to think about that. In a IGYG game you can actually plan ahead without the whole game being predictable. The ability to reliably plan ahead makes the tactical decisions meaningful. Making even this pivotal aspect random makes the whole game a gamble, nothing more (the outcome isn’t necessarily a gamble though).

Yeah, it’s also an SBGL problem though, they can’t handle high damage due to a lack of solid defenses/mw protection. They also don’t hit back that hard when you think about it (so little rend, way too many tarpits, only two hammers in the book: VLoZD and Paper-Armour Guard)

Since the Soul of (SPOILER) Aenarion was in there there might as well have been soul-shards of gods? That might initiate the revival of Mathlann, maybe? (just hoping) ^^

It is a physicalized mish-mash of IDK Souls. I'd like if the IDK would revive Mathlann - Would really be cool to have a mysterious Deep-Sea God!

Thx! i sadly can’t edit the list because those are set for 5 weeks for all league games x_X I‘m actually in the „chilled game“ league, though everyone seems to bring netlists

I need advice. Soon I'll be facing a Slavesto Darkness list which will be pretty hard to win against as far as I can tell. He'll play Despoilers: - Khorne Deamon Prince, Move 5" inches for D3 units at the start of the game Command ability - Archaon, Khorne, - Call to Glory - Chaos Lord, Khorne, - Chaos Lord on Manticore, Khorne - Chaos Sorcerer on Manticore - Hand of Darkness - 3x 10 Marauders I'll have to play Legion of Blood 2x20 GG 3x10 GG 1x10 Dire Wolves 60 Zombies 2x Vampire Lords (One Arcane - Soulwind, Amarathine Orb, One Martial - Flaming Weapons, Soulpike) 1x Necromancer, Fading Vigour, spectral Grasp 1x Wight King, General, Obliette Arcana, Sanguine Blurr The way I see it his sorcerer will melt all Zombies with one spell. It will be pretty hard to counter that. I need good positioning and luck with the unbinds/obliette. So I'll maybe do a Zombiebomb with +3" additional pile in (to counteract the Deamon Prince Command Ability that halfes my charges and runs). That means if I'll charge anything at all - seems like objective sitting is the best I could do. I'll have to play the objective game and kill his marauders so I can hold more Objectives. Apart from that I can't realy kill any of his heroes, the armour will be too good. I might get lucky and kill the Manticore Lords but that's it, Archaon is pretty much untouchable. Concerning Battle Tactics there won't be much I can do apart from killing a battleline. The Scenario is also a wild card. Any advice?

an eel with Arms?

It‘s so sad that Fyreslayers are getting souped 🤣 Congratz red crested m8s