Luke1705

Interesting that both of the two 5-0 Slaanesh lists at NOVA went godseekers. One had two keepers and one had three. Both had a brick of 30 daemonettes and were 4 drop. The 3 keeper list won on strength of schedule it looks like.

I’d agree if you couldn’t summon more KoS in but since you can I think it’s workable. That being said I saw the 4 keeper list so clearly that’s viable as well

I mean tons is an obvious exaggeration but IIRC the 2nd place Blackout list was like that and like 6 of the top 11 spots were Slaanesh. Also @Rhellion was/is like 10-0 over the last month at GTs and was explaining the Slaanesh mirror matchup point. But I’ve been combing over the top GT list results since the book has been in use and I was originally thinking that 3 keepers would be ideal but noticed that with like 1 or 2 exceptions most people have not used more than 2 that podiumed or top 10’d at a major GT. Obviously anecdotal and not true data but it is a definite trend I’ve noticed

I’m not sure I agree with that assessment. Tons of lists have been doing just fine with only 1 keeper and shalaxi who doesn’t have that command ability. That being said, three thoughts on the list: 1) if you want to use the seeker battalion (and I highly recommend that you do) you really want to be invaders because the 6” pile in isn’t a charge, so you will struggle to gain depravity from being godseekers or you won’t be using the entire point of the battalion. It’s not good to have conflicting goals there. 2) Charging will often get you more distance than the 6” pile in unless you’re willing to spend a command point to run 6” (since you’re not charging you can run and pile in or fall back and pile in or both. It’s really amazing). But the reason I bring this up is because this is good for single model units but you may struggle to engage large units like the 10 seekers with only a 6” pile and no charge move. People who run seeker blobs usually do so alongside the depraved drove and just go full alpha strike wombo with cogs and the whole nine yards to maximize how many models can swing in combat 3) Lastly, the biggest battle in Slaanesh mirror matchups is actually the war of cp attrition. For this reason alone, I am not considering another host other than invaders. The glory hog trait is amazing and you have to keep a hero out of the thick of it anyways so that you can guarantee a summon even if plans go awry, so that should pay dividends all game. Also, the rod of misrule and the mandatory supreme sybarites means that while godseekers will run low on CP, you keep raking it in far longer.

Sounds like a few average charge rolls might have changed the outcome of that game

Sorry I was assuming either invaders or godseekers host. So if you’re invaders, turn 2 (or 3 at the latest) those bad boys are existing in enemy territory (or are dead) and same goes for godseekers. They are either charging stuff or are dead. So either way they are 3 units that are great at getting extra depravity from your host. Coincidentally, they’re not as great in godseekers because the 6” pile in (which is absolutely game winning in the right situation) isn’t actually a charge so if you’re certain you want to be godseekers and are ok being 4 drop, I wouldn’t take the battalion.

Daemonettes are better to summon in. The seeker battalion is spectacular at generating depravity or tying up deathstars and bestigors do better damage. Not much of a niche left for the daemonettes except for a target for the KoS command ability but summoned ones do that just as well

I can agree that sometimes people get good matchups, ate their Wheaties that morning, or are otherwise just a wizard (looking at you Sean Nayden - my 40k people know what I mean). That being said, seeing a list do well at a large event *does* usually mean that it is both powerful and relatively well rounded against the current meta. Will that change? Sure. But I’m more liable to take playtested and battle-proven advice over a list that is just playtested. In any event, I do feel like much of this thread is splitting hairs. When a four keeper list can finish 5-0 at Blackout (100 person GT) clearly that list (and likely 3 keeper iterations) works just fine. I’ve personally seen Depraved Drove lists win and podium at GTs. And of course Rhellion’s invaders list and similar twists on it have had some good success as well. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it comes down to play style preference

I’ve actually not seen that 3 keeper list do as well as lists similar to @Rhellion‘s list with 2 keepers (1 + shalaxi) along with the masque, epitome, and bladebringer. Have I just missed out on results with 3 keepers and min daemonettes taking the podium at big events?

I think something I’m noticing with a lot of high placing lists is that because so many units in the book are good, it’s best to bring different units and summon in redundancy. Case in point - the keeper of secrets and her command ability are superb. But the contorted epitome is great. The exalted chariot is excellent. But by bringing too many of a single unit, you lose out on other things. Then again some dude did place well with 4 keepers (I think it was 3 and shalaxi) is maybe people just don’t have enough Keepers painted yet 😂 Personally for me I think the sweet spot might be 2 keepers and shalaxi, but then I have to make sacrifices and can’t be a two drop or if I am a two drop then I can’t bring an epitome and an exalted chariot. TLDR I keep coming back to @Rhellion‘s list, although I will definitely proxy a silly 4 keeper list and try out iterations of 3 keeper (2 plus shalaxi) lists as well. @Rhellion I’d be interested to hear why you went with less keepers and other heros instead.

More wounds per point spent so better depravity generation. Averages are good and all but what I’m saying is that the bladebringer will more often be close to the average output because it rolls more dice whereas the keeper’s low amount of attacks means it will sometimes be spectacular and sometimes do very little. To explain what I mean by that, would you rather have 1 rend 1 attack that does 20 damage, or 20 rend 1 attacks that each do 1 damage?

For starters, it’s not literally the same thing as a keeper. What it brings to the table is the best sword of judgment caddy outside of a contorted epitome (but you would need to run two epitomes because you don’t really want your only one running forwards and dying, and let’s be honest we’re taking the thermalrider cloak anyhow). It also has an actual bucket of attacks and puts out consistent mortal wounds. The keeper has very low volume of attacks, so the bladebringer is better at consistent damage because there is less dice variance. If you’re not running Syll’Esske, the bladebringer is a good source of re-rolls (and even if you are it can spread out your buff to multiple areas)

Personally in a non beastmen Slaanesh list I do still think a single epitome is close to auto include, but a second one doesn’t have as much value for me over say an exalted chariot. But when you’re taking only 2 keepers, you get to say “why not both?” to those two guys. What the third keeper does in my lists is axes the exalted chariot, and I don’t think it’s as good to have triple redundancy on keepers when you can summon one if you really need another one. I’d rather be more versatile before my summoning kicks in.

I think putting all your eggs into one basket isn’t a great idea when our heroes are generally fragile. The strength of Slaanesh is that they come back but they don’t come back with their artifacts/command traits etc

I’d want the supreme sybarites battalion to lower the drop count. @Rhellion posted a similar list a few pages back. I tried to improve his list but I couldn’t 😅 Also generally speaking I like the masque and to summon in an enraptress because it can’t go the other way around

As a khorne player I can 100% confirm that this is the only way to beat Slaanesh. Khorne also has a command ability to pile from 6” which is an AOE ability and that helps a lot too. How to beat them is basically just with good screening or through attrition of summoning. Slaanesh summoning is much better than Khorne summoning

I’ve heard that godseekers can get +3” to their charge when units are summoned in somehow. Did I misunderstand this or how does that work?

Wholly within is annoying, but at least it’s 12” range. The big kicker for me is having 2” range on the spears. That means you can fight over the first rank of enlightened with the stuff that counts, so you should never have any enlightened that doesn’t swing at all. Of course, doubling the output (more or less) with all of the attacks is better. I’ve had times where one can’t make it without killing the buff, so that guy doesn’t swing. You gain more than you lose if only miss out on one. Two is worth losing the buff over (at max squad size) so long as you aren’t -1 to hit or anything like that

More like super duper alpha strike. I also play Deepkin Eels and Khorne Tyrants of Blood

Kairos Gaunt Summoner Tzaangor Shaman 3 x 10 Acolytes 9 Skyfires 9 Enlightened

That is the best news I've heard all week. My tzeentch list was at 2020 when I thought he was still 180.

Get 3 command abilities a turn out of him and you will not find him to be useless at all. His combat does leave something to be desired, but almost all of the gods have a way of buffing his slayer of kings to proc on a 5, and if you want to cast the sorcerer power to let him re-roll hits and wounds of 1, hitting on a 2+ re-rolling 1's and wounding on a 2+ re-rolling ones will feel a LOT better

Where are people seeing a 160 point gaunt summoner? As far as I can see, he's still 180

Words do. Your hero phase is your hero phase. The hero phase is either hero phase. Sorry that your opponent doesn’t want to believe it, but you don’t need his permission to play by the rules.

One other thing to remember is if you do go into an ally that you care about keeping alive, you could always use Ionrach to give them the protection of the Deepkin and the benefit of the tides table