Wordy9th

It’s incredibly ambitious to make a human faction that comprises of every facet of diversity in the realms, and the more you talk about warrior poets of hyish and death priests of shyish the less focus you get on the Everyman perspective. Potentially will be limited to single models, warcry warbands and soul bound id assume. I think what you’ll get from dawnbringers is a rugged steppe / conquistador aesthetic which unites under the theme of desperation and expansion. Probably with an inquisitorial / religious tone because hey that’s cool and warhammer. I think this will be distinct from cities both range wise and lore wise, but essentially be the new human faction that you will see represented on the tabletop, with cities themselves being a primarily lore device.

Sure, and that's a great idea in concept. But that doesn't really stand when Lumineth, Daughters, Karadron, Fyreslayers and so on all seem to be able to go out on their own yet humans are stuck in the post apocalyptic fantasy race melting pot - all the while depriving the setting of the 'average' perspective (and probably more importantly, a cool range of models) in doing so.

Human representation in the setting is the most grounded and popular method of offering an every-man perspective, and works to put the mythological and grand scale of the setting in context, much like in painting where too many eye catching colours make none eye catching at all. CoS is a mess both gameplay and story wise. It's a wastebin of dead Fantasy factions that operates in the same way as those empty areas in Total War: Warhammer do before they're filled with the 'proper' DLC factions. Giving some much needed AoS flavour and continuity to the faction is high up on GWs list and rightfully so. I am 1000% into the idea of a spanish inquisisiton / conquistador element to them. Where before the Empire was 17th Century German, now it seems to be Spanish, or at least drawing from those cultural elements as touch stones much like most factions do in this game. I'm excited for it and hope it'll knock it out of the park as a nice contrast to the riotous high fantasy that occupies much of the setting. The debate on what constitutes a good guy, the return of grimdark and all of that seems a bit silly to me, principally because ideas on morality good and evil and so on are relative and it's a never-ending forest of discussion that isn't super interesting. The game is set in an apocalyptic wasteland where 90% of the territories are controlled by possibly the worst things to exist in any setting ever. The idea that in such a setting, with the forces of order's backs perpetually against the wall, that there'd be harmonious settlements of different fantasy races working in tandem (except races that are non-human) seems to me purely a result of GW needing to slap all the models together in one book rather than a coherent background setting.

Can someone lay out some strategy for the contorted epitome? I’m looking at its ability to make units lose their combat round through careful placement, but it seems so luck based and the unit is so fragile that I’m having a hard time using it practically. any thoughts about the big mirror appreciated! It would be helpful to suggest why I’d take it above other things at the same price point, mostly synessa or the exalted chariot with bladebringer.

Bad sarcasm aside, it’s notable when you read the thondia fluff how desperate the writers seem to demarcate the incarnate from other things in the lore. Many sentences start with something like: ”despite its skeletal animation, no creature of necromancy was this” ”despite the bloodlust and anger, no creature of khorne was this” “Despite its strange, summoned nature, no daemon was this”. And so on haha.

The big question: will OBR benefit from this aura?

Ooo Slaanesh update. Here's hoping!

I do get sad where I see allied units holding up a weaker book, but it is what it is. Was there any info on what was summoned? It seems that chariots (though I don't know which ones) and daemonettes are the go to. Interestingly on the Honest Wargamer stats page, Seekers are in the top three most popular units taken for tournaments?

Discussing it as adults seems preferable to me over locking a subject 'just in case'.

Subjective I know, but that Sigvald with a skin tone that wasn't the same colours as the rest of the model would definitely have stuck out more to me. I'm more confused by the 40k large entry winner, the streak'n'grime dreadnought!

I've been doing a fair bit of list building of late as a new Slaanesh player. I apologise for how much is in this and if these questions have already been answered in the past, any up to date comments on any of these units are appreciated! So far the units that seem 'good' are: Sigvald Glutos Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot Symbaresh Twinsouls ------------- Those units I feel are good for their points, now to the 'good for Slaanesh' list. Contorted Epiotome? (It's a lot of points for 2 casts and what seems a pretty random and situational ability) Hellstriders? (They're our only screens right now it seems - also why on earth do they have a 4+? They're naked!) Seekers (both slickblade and blissbarb versions, super expensive but really versitile) Painbringers (uh, vindictors but a bit worse?) --------------------- Units I'm not sure about - Shardspeaker (she seems really good but there's so many caveats such as short range and rolling 3+). Blissbarb archers (They seem like they would do work if you went really heavy into them (like 44-66), I'm still not sure if having them as min battle line is a good option, and if they should be reinforced or not). Lord of Pain. The 'tax' to get battleline seems questionable. Fiends - seem too expensive for what they do, why wouldn't I get slickblades instead? Seekers - 2d6 run and charge and an extra attack for the same cost as Daemonettes? They seem alright to me. All the chariots. The exalted chariot seems miles better than the others for the double mortal wounds hit. I have a spare chariot from the Shadow and Pain box, and I'm wondering what to build it as. The Dread Pageant, seem pretty good for 130 points?

I couldn't have my skelly boys being slighted so, therefore the only option was to take them to a tournament!

I've tried it a couple of times. It's a fluff piece or a fun piece, if you like a really cool model stalking the board doing little to no damage. The book has so many options so go ahead with it if you have the 115 points sitting around, but if you're putting together a serious list then you won't :). I mean you can take that or 20 bodies of zombies, or a corpse cart, or some bats, or... you get the idea.

Oh yes. I think the main problem with the book is that we live in a world where the designer looked at the sword in the Keeper of Secrets hand, stroked their chin, and said "Minus one rend" to nods around the table. "Claws? Well, it has two of them, so that must mean two attacks." That profile gets me every time.

Some great numbers there guys. As an enjoyer of Grave Guard myself I can attest to their damage, and it's been right to point out the sheer power of how buffs can affect GG's performance. As for warscroll rewrites, I can't say no to having a pip of rend on a unit. I've heard it from others that -1 rend might as well be no rend in this meta but I hard disagree (unless I'm fighting Petrifex in which case it's true xD). On the subject though we need look no further for a Slaangor rewrite than the Dread Pageant unit from Underworlds. That boy has 4 attacks, 4 to hit, 3 to wound, -2 rend and 2 damage with mortal wounds on hits in addition. That whole unit actually puts out serious damage for 130 points and also enjoys a 4+ ward on the main Harpoon dude. A few more warscrolls on the same line as these and we're going towards a better place.

Regarding internal balance I agree there are a lot of good choices, but those choices when it comes to external balance are definitely lacking. Rend and damage is an issue. Yesterday I played a game vs Stormcast (anecdotal evidence sure) and picked broken ranks against a unit of 8 vindictors. I attacked them with 5 symbaresh, Sigvald and 4 slickblade seekers all with +1 to hit and +1 to wound from shardseeker spells and abilities. With only all out defence they survived with 3 left and my rolls weren't even that bad. (2+ against Symbaresh on a 135 point battleline unit was like a hail of pebbles for all the good their damage did). Anecdote aside, when you look at the new deepkin book you see an alternate reality of what Slaanesh could be. A fast, hard hitting army which is also fragile. Though they occupy completely different ends of the power spectrum. I love the summoning system. Conceptually it really works and is part of why I wanted to collect the army. Causing pain and suffering until pink clouds roil over the battlefield and demons of excess pour in reminds me a lot of the old school warhammer fiction I used to read. It's an absolute nightmare to balance for sure though, on the game side. The couple of games I've had which were sub 2k had summoning become extremely overpowered, where some situations felt that if I summoned anything I'd auto win, but if I didn't I'd auto lose. At 2k it's better for sure, but the issues can remain. I think I'd preferentially like summoning to remain to some degree, but enough adjustments made to allow the army to compete more in the fat middle. More rend and damage via abilities, or indeed warscrolls would be welcome. Counting the depravity points at the end of the turn always feels great, and it'd be sad to lose that. But your mileage may vary!

Fairly well, after painting up 3.5k so far of Soulblight and going to a tournament I felt like I needed something really different and so far my Slaanesh has been going great. Despite this I've only painted Vasiliac from the shadespire warband, and found myself taking as much time with him as possible. The lurid colours and different hues of the army is a very exciting thing after the mouldy gravelords. I had a 1k point game too and really enjoyed the more fragile / summoning based playstyle. I seem to have way too many seahorse mounts to paint however, I underestimated how many there'd be, they're everywhere. On chariots, on archer cav, on daemonette cav, on man with whips cav. I'm hoping by the time they're more painted up I get a juicy BoC-esque white dwarf update and some point changes. One can hope!

Maybe not a book but I'd expect a fairly chonky white dwarf and some point changes, which, could make all the difference in bringing us to the 'fat middle'.

Okay had a 1k game on Friday, Hedonites of Slaanesh vs Ossiarch Bonereapers. In short, it was a very fun game but incredibly swingy. OBR melted my army in the first couple of turns and by turn 3 I had only my Shardspeaker and 4 Seeker archers left. In return I’d killed his morghasts and one stalker. I then summoned a keeper of secrets, who made their charge on a 9, and did a staggering 17 wounds from lucky 6s, melting the entire unit of Kavalos deathriders. It then went on to melt the unit of 20 mortek in combination with its horde killer spell and that was game. a very unexpected turnaround, one which showed how amplified all aspects of AoS are in smaller conditions. 1- swingy rolls end the game faster 2- mechanics such as summoning (among others) have an engorged impact on the game. 3- less variables can mean one flank is one unit vs one unit with dice determining who wins one third of the board, and less synergistic elements make dice rolls more pronounced over the impact of positioning and buffs etc. Overall it was a fun experience, but one which showed that what ifs decide games on the knife edge of a single combat. I’d keep such games to necessity of time rather than a rounded total experience. It left many questions, such as should house rules be made to limit summoning? What about the fact there’s less units to get depravity from? Is summoning a 420 point unit too much for a 1k point game? such questions never have easy answers, but it shows the limitations of a format that is not fully supported and is left at the hands of the players. if you’re playing new players, need the game to last shorter, or don’t much care for how the game goes win or lose, 1k games seem to be a good shout. otherwise there are a lot of questions about how legit a game can feel under such conditions, and I can see why players prefer to play at 2k where so many game balance factors are taken into account by the developers.

Thanks for the responses guys, that’s quite cool. im interested in what the rules are for this though and why. Isn’t the start of the combat phase still in the combat phase? Is this clarified anywhere? cheers!

Just a couple rules questions guys: Sigvald's 'fight first at the start of the combat phase if he's charged'. Does this mean I can attack with him, and then immediately with another unit if it's my turn? If not, what's the benefit of this? The Keeper's CA. Can I use it to make Sigvald immediately attack after his start of the combat phase activation? Or do I have to wait until my next activation, after the opponent's? Does it also count as a full activation in itself? Cheers!

Having done well with Soulblight at a recent tournament, the warp overtook me and I bought roughly 3k points of Slaanesh. Really looking forward to trying out bright and colourful colour schemes and a different playstyle, compared to the drab and cold look of soulblight and grindy attrition of the playstyle.

Some great points from the post above. This hit me a fair bit when my son showed interest in the warhammer world 'battle initiates' tournament, where there are games of 750 points but with no subfaction allegiance abilities. This, like other aspects of smaller point games, really hits some armies and lists hard and makes others significantly stronger. For example, Stormcast not having their 6+ ward on an objective isn't so much of a deal compared to say, petrifex elite's +1 save, or Vyrkos' reroll casts and +1 to wound. Armies like soulblight which was mentioned in the post above can rely on synergistic elements that require more than 1k points to achieve and still have an army capable of doing anything. Armies like Slaanesh, which I've just started collecting, can use summoning to have a much greater effect on the board at lower points. This can of course be worked around with agreements and players gripping their beers and pretzels firmly, hell I've done this in D&D all the time when rules can get bent in order to produce a better experience, but the constant sensation of playing the game as an open play fun time can make the experiance a little less satisfying for those of us who like to feel that the game is a more solid, "balanced" experience. Edit: I realize the thread is mainly asking for experiences, and I'm planning to have my next 1k point game this weekend so I'll let you guys know how it goes!

Should I read anything into there being a 40k doubles tournament but naught for AoS? 😇

Both work, I'd pick Vargeists for the list alone as its a fun go absolutely wild aggressive build. Wolves would end up being a better long term purchase for flexibility though. Both are amazing so just do whatever!