Beliman

Anyone have any Fyreslayers/Idoneth leaks?? Even Horus Heresy has more leaks at this point!

Wtf? You said: @Marcvs said that you are wrong and proved that there are monsters with worst save, and he only pointed a few because there are a lot more with 4+ save or even worst, 5+ saves. Conclusion: doesn't matter if there are 3+ monsters (btw, Ironclad is not a monster), the point is that new monsters (SCE, Kruleboyz, Maggotkin...) are NOT 3+ as you said.

I think you are right. They showed how the Roaring Fyrestream and I don't even know how I should play it

Not having any issue at all. TTS helps to (partially) know the behaviour of some units on the table, test some lists and play with friends that are far away. I prefer to play IRL with friends but that's another thing.

100% agree with this. Mathammer is awesome, but it's just one jigsaw piece. The whole picture is what it matters.

I don't know, really. Each attack is resolved individually, that's why all other abilities that return dmg have a description of "after suffering" a wound have a max cap of dmg that can return. Aura of Madness has another description: "after all of its attacks have been resolved." From a lore pov, it seems that's the same unit that hit themself because their own madness (and not acid blood or whatever). I suppose that you are right, but I'm not really sure.

I think that's 1mw for each attack roll of 1. But you can't kill the attacking enemy unit before he/she finishes all of his/her attacks. All Aura of Madness mortal wounds are applied after he/she resolves all of them.

I don't think there is any IP problem. The "concept" of the army can't be registered, and GW doens't have any KOs building. Unless there is a 100% copy&paste designs (and I mean, 100%), it will not be a problem.

I’ve tried to look to other games/systems to see why AoS has different feeling when you use some Artillery, and I think it’s because they don’t have a role on the table. They are just “worst" ranged units. So, I decided to look for other roles that have a similar problem and I find that Cavalry and Heavy/Monstrous Cavalry had a similar problem. But lot's of them have similar abilities that we can group into two groups: So, big cavalry/monsters can do mortal wounds and skilled riders have a bonus to their weapon profiles after a charge. Some of them can be really bad (stats, points, etc...) or out of the meta, but at least, they are different from other units. That's what I'm looking for. Let’s move to Artillery. We can group all Artillery units into 4 groups: Catapults/Trebuchets Maybe blob-killers. Bolt-Throwers/Axe Throwers Maybe high-wounds killers (Beast-skewer Killbow) Cannons/Gunpowder Generalists (high rend, damage, range, etc... but without a specialist bonus) Lightning/Lasers High risk-high reward? I'm not sure what abilities they need, but their role should be clear. Numbers can be tweaked to make them more viable, so it's all about giving them a purpose on the table.

Turtle, turtle for everyone (Nautilar)! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/15/the-new-idoneth-battletome-brings-extra-beefy-leviadons-to-the-battleline/

My favorite games were using meeting engagement (mix them with fluffy battleplans for the best explosive experience). My main complain about playing 1k points games is basically the units that you can take, and how crazy are some of them. You really need to talk to your opponent before the game if you want to have a fun game.

I think that's true for all armies appart from the ones at the bottom (Gloomspite comes my mind). Some micro-armies can disguise that problem because they don't have enough units, but it's exactly the same: only a few units are used in the competitive scene. Instead of Fulminators, Longstrikes and Dragons, we had HGB spam, Ironclad+WLV, Eeel spam, Morathi/Gotrek and/or snake spam, Mortek Spam (Petrifex), etc... With SCE having a larger roster than other armies, it's easy to see the problem. I read that Nu'Nurgle has some flexibile and unique lists that let you use a bigger competitive roster (5++ army-wide helps a lot I suppose) and maybe Lumineth, but I'm not really sure about that.

100% agree with that.

I suppose that the bold part is just gloom&doom, unless you already read the battletome. Just to make it clear, SCE, Orruks (all 3 clans) and Nurgle have 3 battle traits (or even more, like Bonnesplitterz) + 1 ability for each subfaction. That's what I expect for other armies. Let's look at SCE: In 2.0, SCE had shock and awe and Scions of the storm or Shield of civilization and Mortal Auxiliaries. (2 abilities). In 3.0 they have Blaze of Glory, Scions of the Storm or Shield of Civilization and Holy Commands. From what I know (not an SCE expert btw), Holy Commands are a mix of old CA/subfactions/ etc... and a completely new thing. Let's look at Nurgle: In 2.0, they had Cycle of Corruption and Summon Daemons of Nurgle. (2 abilities). In 3.0, they have Diseased, Disgusting Resilient and Cycle of Corruptions (and Summon Daemons too). GW removed some of Nurgle's abilities like Disease-ridden Demise (nurglings) or Blighted Weapons (blightkings) to make room for Diseased. Same with Disgustingly Resilient... What I'm saying is that moving an ability from a warscroll to a battle trait is not always a 1:1 thing. I'm pretty sure that you get the point of what I'm talking about. Let's look at Fyreslayers: In 2.0 they had Ur-Gold runes... and that's all. In 3.0, GW showed that they still have Ur-gold runes, let's see if Fyreslayers are going to follow the same pattern as other 3.0 Battletomes... Yes. Orruks, Nurgle and SCE lost 99% of their CA. Only one or two survived, and I expect exactly the same for Fyreslayers and Deepkin. Edit: But I can see some of them in the new Holy Orders: Thunderbolt Volley - Heroes of Another Age (Command) Call for Aid - Souls of Stormhost (Command) Steadfast March - Onwards to Glory (Knight Heraldor Ability). Unleash thy Hatred - Righteous Hatred (Command).

It's all about your expectations. I'm not saying that Fyreslayers shouldn't have a second wave, but I think that you had something diferent in mind. Btw, talking about rules and "how bad are we going to be" is pointless when we only know that fyreslayers still have the same battle trait (with some little buffs here and there). How many other battle traits are they going to have? What are their subfaction abilities? Their artefacts? Prayers? Etc... Btw, @Whitefang has wrote that some warscroll abilities are going to be removed from their warscrolls and moved to their battletome... anyone remember if fyreslayer's warscrolls lost any ability? Sworn Protectors anyone? I know, it's just wishlist, but it could be really good for an army with so many heroes.

I give credit to the company that build this setting/ world/ galaxy/ realms/ whatever and promote the hobby/ community. But I will not buy anything that I find it's above their value, and believe me that I'm really flexible about that. I'm not a 3D-printer guy, so that's not an option too. If I can't enjoy warhammer anymore for whatever reason (and money being on of them), I will switch games. I already have some other skirmish and wargames so... Easy, simple, and nobody gets hurt.

Everything can be fixe'd. Give an objective-secured ability to Vulkites and you have a good reason to take a bunch of them.

I have some faith to see more than one battle trait (Fyreslayers only have one, instead of 3+ like all others). A bodyguard ability for all Fyreslayers units could be gamechanging.

Beasts of Chaos (WD) Update seems awesome! That juicy rend and more Monstruous Rampage seems really good! Beware of fast and angry goat!!

I think that all of them can shoot. Maybe you will lose some shoots from bowmen (first photo), but pretty sure some of them are still going to shoot anyone because they see a guttrippaz head or an arm.

I still think that Fyreslayers are going to be improved by a lot. I'm not talking about winning or how powerful they are going to be on the table, but just an improvement overall. If we take SCE, Nurgle and Orruks as a blueprints, we can see something like this: Stormcast Eternals Blaze of Glory Scions of the Storm or Shield of Civilization Holy Commands Orruk Warclans Venom-encrusted weapons / Mighty Destroyers / Warpaints Kruleboyz Waaagh / Ironjawz Waaagh / Bonnesplitterz Waaagh Dirty Tricks / Smashing and Bashing / Spirit of Gorkamorka Maggotkin of Nurgle Diseased Disgusting Resilient Cycle of Corruptions I know that factions can still have more abilities (Tireless Trackers or Summon Daemons of Nurgle), but the whole point is that Fyreslayers only have 1 ability: Ur-gold Runes. Subfaction should open conditional battlelines (or even coalition units) appart from another ability and not be chained to your general. Time will tell, but it seems good!

As a casual player (or a new player), a Double Turn will not be good experience (even if it has not a big impact on the table). Just waiting for 20-40 minuts to play your turn untill knowing that you need to wait 20 minutes or more again... As another example, KO games can be frustating too. Playing through all your phases in less than 2 minuts until you reach your shooting phase. The opponent just gets bored with all your shooting (even if your whole turn is faster). It's not the same but people will not enjoy this type of mechanics because they are not fun. You need to do something inbetween all this actions or the game becomes a bit tedious. I think All out Attack/Defense are the first step in the right direction, but I still think that it needs a lot more.

The line of "they'll do what they want" is really blurry. It's up to the consumer to decide when they step on the red line, and the most important thing, if anything will be lost along the way. Edit: I will only talk about Kharadrons, an army of Dwarfs that fly above the sky (?), mining clouds (?), Big Game Hunting aether-monsters (?), with their faith deposited on The Code and not in their Gods and traditions(?), being meritocratic and not about kings and bloodlines (?) and breaking from old classic clichés, even Grudges have been turned in to something like profitable and close to a "job". Yes, they are still duardins: they grumble, smoke pipes and drink beers, exactly like Dispossessed and Fyreslayers. But their diferences is the main reason we collect, read and play them. Say what you want, but Garaktornum was an opportunity and not a disaster.

I need to buy this dude ASAP!!!

I'm still thinking that it's a mistake. Kruleboyz, Ironjawz and Bonnesplitterz are written as their own factions (all of them have their own Allegiance Abilities and stuff) and not as a soup'd army book or subfaction. Orruks are not soup'd. Let's be honest here, any other army with any Coalition units has more interactions and synergies with them than Ironjawz in a Kruleboyz army (mainly because you can't take them!). All orruks should be coalition between them (appart from Big Waaagh).