Let's chat : Maggotkin of Nurgle

[Locien83]

16 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@Locien83 rotbringers are a lower model count army. That's not a bad thing when you compare to your other pairing choices..such as huge blocks of plaguemonks, marauders (as mentioned) or even the plague bearers! Plaguebearera backed by either a scrivener herald for offense or the poxbringer for defensive synergy is great!! I like marauders because I use a plaguetouched warband battalion from the ever chosen book. I use pox walkers.. without any conversions. I never understand how people say they "don't look AoS" when we have dwarves with guns riding in airships with cannons mounted on them, and free people's guilds armed with rifles and operating steam tanks.. so those wrenches and rifles turned into melee weapons makes perfect sense to me!

How feasible do you think a purely Rotbringer force would be?

I know it would be very low model count (some of the lists I have been looking towards are only in the 30-40 models region) but how detrimental do yo feel this would this be in a semi-competitive setting?

[Tasman]

3 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

I hope it's like that, but it could easily be argued that in principle the ability is to give the shooting attack to someone. Once they've got that ability, it can't be given again. In any case, it's pretty clearly an oversight by GW. I'm always surprised at how bad they can be at wording sometimes. 

At the very least, the multiple LoBs could hand off heads to multiple units of kings, thus achieving, in a way, the same thing. More shots.

[sal4m4nd3r]

4 hours ago, Locien83 said:

How feasible do you think a purely Rotbringer force would be?

I know it would be very low model count (some of the lists I have been looking towards are only in the 30-40 models region) but how detrimental do yo feel this would this be in a semi-competitive setting?

I came in top 8 at NOVA last year with pure rotbringer force. It was GHB 16 but I had: Harbinger (general), glotkin, bloab, 4 x5 blightkings, 28 marauders ...errrr I guess ALMOST pure rotbringers  in a plaguetouched warband. 

So IMO even though I didnt play PURE rotbringer.. It would absolutely be feasible. blightkings make great troops. The onyl thing they are bad at is camping on objectives. And its not that they are bad at it because they sure can take a beating but you want them on the front lines.. they are killy, tough, resilient, slow.. I'll grant you.. but with whell movement bonus and trees to run and charge you have bursts of speed. plus now with options such as pusgoyles.. speed is not hard to come by!

[Poltron]

10 hours ago, Nikobot said:

The wording is quite simple. 

At the start of shooting phase, pick a unit.
"That unit can shoot in the shooting phase using the Munificent Bounty Death's Head missile weapon shown above."

To me that's a straight forward ability granting a missile attack, if another Lord of Blights grants the same thing which happens to have the same profile, I don't see anything wrong with it. Its the use of a 2nd ability which just happens to grant the same attack. There is nothing about it not stacking or preventing it from being applied a 2nd time. There is nothing wrong with attacking with multiple missile weapons either.

Its 2 individual Lords of Blight handing over some heads the Blight kings launch. So the 2nd Lord of Blights hands over some more heads and they throw some more!

I cant really find anything RAW to prevent this, except that the ability, at the start of the shooting phase, creates a weapon profile. There's no precedent that a unit can have more than one of the same profile. And if it cant have more than one profile, the attack stat cannot be upgraded either. This will need to be FAQ for sure, because no other unit in the game have 2-3 times the same weapon profile.

I also see every abilities in Warhammer as time consuming, thus the reason you have a limit on movement, attack stat, etc, you attack in a certain time frame. I see this ability as the opportunity to shoot once in the shooting phase, because that's the only time they have before they either charge or get charged. 

RAW creates exploits like this, which by common sense, wouldnt even be brought up. GW really need to learn to foolproof their rules.

[Poltron]

11 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I came in top 8 at NOVA last year with pure rotbringer force. It was GHB 16 but I had: Harbinger (general), glotkin, bloab, 4 x5 blightkings, 28 marauders ...errrr I guess ALMOST pure rotbringers  in a plaguetouched warband. 

So IMO even though I didnt play PURE rotbringer.. It would absolutely be feasible. blightkings make great troops. The onyl thing they are bad at is camping on objectives. And its not that they are bad at it because they sure can take a beating but you want them on the front lines.. they are killy, tough, resilient, slow.. I'll grant you.. but with whell movement bonus and trees to run and charge you have bursts of speed. plus now with options such as pusgoyles.. speed is not hard to come by!

Totally agree, even with just the tree, they have a +2 bonus, +1 to run and +1 to charge, with bell (sorry Rotbringers fanatics) and wheel it's +7" that turn, it almost triple their movement just with bonus alone, and you have another 3d6 to manage. Nurgle is anything but slow now with the right setup.

[Vasshpit]

47 minutes ago, Poltron said:

RAW creates exploits like this, which by common sense, wouldnt even be brought up. GW really need to learn to foolproof their rules.

Not sure why this is viewed as an exploit and not a tactic?..... 

It's not game breaking. Also you're going to sacrifice a hero slot to achieve those extra attacks.

To me it seems reasonable and tactical. Not exploitable. Just my opinion.

[Poltron]

IMHO, from a common sense/fluff point of view,  lord of blight arent supposed to suddenly change slow blightkings into a gatling gun of death's heads. We play turn by turn, but the battle per se isnt static, and no way in hell would they be able to receive and throw 4 heads while they're moving in and the enemy's moving in too, when the profile states 1 (attack limit are like Action point, they're here to show that every action takes time per turn to complete and you can only do so much).

It's not that it's actually OP, I would even think that most of the time you'll run and wont be able to shoot. But it's still an exploit because right now there's no other unit in the game that have multiple of the same weapon profile.

I actually think it was written this way to prevent abuse like this, instead of just "Make 1 ranged attack at 12" 3+ 4+ - 1d" which could stack, because having a weapon profile defines and limits the # of shots you have. 

Again just my opinion, based on common sense and not RAW.

 

[hughwyeth]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

Not sure why this is viewed as an exploit and not a tactic?..... 

It's not game breaking. Also you're going to sacrifice a hero slot to achieve those extra attacks.

To me it seems reasonable and tactical. Not exploitable. Just my opinion.

Even if it is +1 shot, they're crappy shots with a big point cost for each of the lord of blights- would it even be worth it? Usually trying to give your force something which they usually have none of/is their weakness (shooting for Nurgle) is a bad idea. Play to nurgle strengths- shooting is not it. 

[annarborhawk]

So I finally picked up the book, a GUO (maybe best looking model in the line!), and a Lord of Blights - because, you know, can't help myself....

Just perusing  through the book, and am I right that if you use the Lord Of Blight's command ability on a  big  block of Plague Bearers  that they  become -4 to hit in shooting phase, and -2 to hit in combat??

If so, why am I not seeing the Lord of Blights more often as general in lists?

[Poltron]

4 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

So I finally picked up the book, a GUO (maybe best looking model in the line!), and a Lord of Blights - because, you know, can't help myself....

Just perusing  through the book, and am I right that if you use the Lord Of Blight's command ability on a  big  block of Plague Bearers  that they  become -4 to hit in shooting phase, and -2 to hit in combat??

If so, why am I not seeing the Lord of Blights more often as general in lists?

Yes they would be harder to hit.

You dont see it often because we have better generals, and because Lord of Blight is fragile (well more fragile than most of our other choice). If it was just an ability, he would be in every list.

[Nikobot]

@ Hugh may not be worth it !

I think the idea was suggested to try out a build with 20x kings, some LoBs and cast Blades. Get 3-4 shots per king and hope for lots of MW from range.

[hughwyeth]

46 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

So I finally picked up the book, a GUO (maybe best looking model in the line!), and a Lord of Blights - because, you know, can't help myself....

Just perusing  through the book, and am I right that if you use the Lord Of Blight's command ability on a  big  block of Plague Bearers  that they  become -4 to hit in shooting phase, and -2 to hit in combat??

If so, why am I not seeing the Lord of Blights more often as general in lists?

Because 6s always hit, -4 to hit in shooting isn't that much better than -2, unless you're fighting freeguild cannons with buffs etc. For example, playing against skryre, it's pretty much the same to have -2 and -4 to hit because they're usually 4+ to hit anyways.  The -2 to hit in combat is great, but there are some better command ability buffs from more resilient characters. 

Having said that, he is my go to general for all 1,000pt games (unless i'm doing pure mortals, in which case harbinger)  and many 1,500pt games. THere's just much better options as general for 2,000pts (Glottkin, GUO, Harbinger)

[sal4m4nd3r]

1 hour ago, hughwyeth said:

Because 6s always hit, -4 to hit in shooting isn't that much better than -2, unless you're fighting freeguild cannons with buffs etc. For example, playing against skryre, it's pretty much the same to have -2 and -4 to hit because they're usually 4+ to hit anyways.  The -2 to hit in combat is great, but there are some better command ability buffs from more resilient characters. 

Having said that, he is my go to general for all 1,000pt games (unless i'm doing pure mortals, in which case harbinger)  and many 1,500pt games. THere's just much better options as general for 2,000pts (Glottkin, GUO, Harbinger)

Lately I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I'm having a nurgle general identity crisis. I've been taking glotkin as general instead of harbinger. I hate not have a command trait. And not taking artifacts on my general. But that +1 attack on marauders/plaguebearers with blades is such an irresistible tactic. Especially when fleshy abundance goes off.  I just got so sick of keeping my army in a tight little bubble. Without the harbinger I feel like I play "looser" and not worry about harbinger buff. Especially with the wounds buff to blightkings. 

But I certainly miss the harbinger love bubble. I think I might try harbinger again..especially with spume peeling off a bunch of blightkings.  

Lord of blights makes a fun narrative general or for smaller point games.. but as a competitive choice for larger (or normal 2000 points) he is really not a viable option. Just simply better command abilities. 

[Poltron]

26 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Lately I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I'm having a nurgle general identity crisis. I've been taking glotkin as general instead of harbinger. I hate not have a command trait. And not taking artifacts on my general. But that +1 attack on marauders/plaguebearers with blades is such an irresistible tactic. Especially when fleshy abundance goes off.  I just got so sick of keeping my army in a tight little bubble. Without the harbinger I feel like I play "looser" and not worry about harbinger buff. Especially with the wounds buff to blightkings. 

But I certainly miss the harbinger love bubble. I think I might try harbinger again..especially with spume peeling off a bunch of blightkings.  

Lord of blights makes a fun narrative general or for smaller point games.. but as a competitive choice for larger (or normal 2000 points) he is really not a viable option. Just simply better command abilities. 

Same here, got tired of playing in a small bubble, particularly now that we can move a lot, the 7" is actually hindering a lot of strategies.

But I do miss the fact that the harbinger can have it all, being demon, human, rotbringer.

I find that my Glottkin/Guo combo provides enough scaryness that the rest of my army can almost get there intact, but I wonder if they could change some of those command traits to straight abilities instead, it would provide much more tactics to try.

 

[hughwyeth]

43 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Lately I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I'm having a nurgle general identity crisis. I've been taking glotkin as general instead of harbinger. I hate not have a command trait. And not taking artifacts on my general. But that +1 attack on marauders/plaguebearers with blades is such an irresistible tactic. Especially when fleshy abundance goes off.  I just got so sick of keeping my army in a tight little bubble. Without the harbinger I feel like I play "looser" and not worry about harbinger buff. Especially with the wounds buff to blightkings. 

But I certainly miss the harbinger love bubble. I think I might try harbinger again..especially with spume peeling off a bunch of blightkings.  

Lord of blights makes a fun narrative general or for smaller point games.. but as a competitive choice for larger (or normal 2000 points) he is really not a viable option. Just simply better command abilities. 

I hear you.

The reason why glottkin is so attractive is despite being Mortal, he works great with deamons, mortal or a combination. The Harbinger basically gives mortals Disgusting resilient, but only in a tight bunch. Glottkin's ability is crazy good, especially combined with something like blades of putrefaction. I think anything that increases damage output for us is great as nurgle is really poor at it in combat, and our smallest base size for units (other than marauders) is 32mm, so getting a load of models in 1" weapon range is pretty difficult.

I find that out of the 30 plaguebearers I field, 10/12 will get into contact on average. Being able to double attacks is fantastic. The spell is fantastic too, it's just a shame we have to roll the 7 and have nothing to help with it, other than arcane terrain, as you'll get it off half the time or so. Having 30 plaguebearers with 2 wounds and 2 attacks is one of the highlights of nurgle I think. 30 plaguebearers will usually last a few rounds, even if they're taking a lot of the enemy's attention, but +1 wound means they'll likely last the whole game. Fantastic objective holders. 

My only beef is glottkin is too easy to kill for what it is. the regular 4+ save means he's pretty easily removed off the table, even with a couple of units of regular battleline troops in combat. I think he might be slightly overcosted- 80 points more than GUO is difficult to justify considering he's much less resilient, dispells 1 less and can't take command abilities or artefacts. 

[Poltron]

8 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

My only beef is glottkin is too easy to kill for what it is. the regular 4+ save means he's pretty easily removed off the table, even with a couple of units of regular battleline troops in combat. I think he might be slightly overcosted- 80 points more than GUO is difficult to justify considering he's much less resilient, dispells 1 less and can't take command abilities or artefacts. 

Yeah I know he's(they're) not a demon, but 3+ or even a 5++ wouldnt be that hard to believe on a monster like him. 18 wounds seems a lot, but against mortal wounds' gatling guns, it's gone fast, especially when you face the threat of a double turn with no way to heal in between. 

[sal4m4nd3r]

@hughwyeth @Poltron

And my comments are all empty promises. lol. I love the model so much, spent weeks painting him, and an entire week solely on his base... there is little chance I will be removing him (even from my  "competitive list")  when I field rotbringers. When I play demons.. there is NO WAY I'm not taking the exalted GUO as general and a blob of plague drones. 

 

[Poltron]

People might try to go overkill on him, it's just a shame to lose one on turn 2 at 420pts, when my Guo with endless gift can tank the same without even being close to death. That's why I use both haha, I give them the GUO in the face to make them waste their shots, and if they still decide to try and get the Glottkin, they have to deal with a GUO and drones right in their face on turn 2.

I try to make use of the 2"-3" range so that he's more of  a support character than the first melee beatstick to get in combat.

I think with Gutrot Spume and deep striking blightkings, you can still manage to have enough distraction on the table to make them lose focus.

[sal4m4nd3r]

3 minutes ago, Poltron said:

People might try to go overkill on him, it's just a shame to lose one on turn 2 at 420pts, when my Guo with endless gift can tank the same without even being close to death. That's why I use both haha, I give them the GUO in the face to make them waste their shots, and if they still decide to try and get the Glottkin, they have to deal with a GUO and drones right in their face on turn 2.

I try to make use of the 2"-3" range so that he's more of  a support character than the first melee beatstick to get in combat.

I think with Gutrot Spume and deep striking blightkings, you can still manage to have enough distraction on the table to make them lose focus.

LOL I tried that in my last game and freaking arkhan came up and curse of years'd my full health glotkin to dust. 

[Congratz]

Heyo
Just bought the Start Collecting - Daemons of Nurgle and i am wondering what artefacts, spells and allegiance abilities there is best for a game with the box

thank you

 

[Locien83]

Thanks for all the help yesterday back again after considering a few options to move forward.

 

What are your thoughts on this:

Allegiance: Nurgle
The Glottkin (420)
- General
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
Gutrot Spume (140)
Festus The Leechlord (140)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion
Bloab Rotspawned (260)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Lord of Afflictions (220)
- Artefact: Rustfang 
28 x Chaos Marauders (180)
- Axes
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
Plaguetouched Warband (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000

[Congratz]

By the way, does Nurgle Allegaince buff Clan Pestilens while playing against them?

[Poltron]

3 hours ago, Locien83 said:

What are your thoughts on this:

Allegiance: Nurgle
The Glottkin (420)
- General
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
Gutrot Spume (140)
Festus The Leechlord (140)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion
Bloab Rotspawned (260)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Lord of Afflictions (220)
- Artefact: Rustfang 
28 x Chaos Marauders (180)
- Axes
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
Plaguetouched Warband (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000

It seems solid, but I wonder if it's too character heavy? I dont know which character I would move out, either Bload or Lord of Affliction, although he's your only not-named character, so let's try to remove Bloab.

It opens up the door to buff your Pusgoyles to 4, making them the hammer they want to be (or 2 units of 2 if you prefer, with Glottkin it doesnt matter as much, but for Blades it's better 4), and you can boost your marauder to 35 for 20 points. leaving you 20.

Whatever you choose to remove, I would buff the pusgoyle and the marauders, 35 at double wounds and mystic shield will go a long way, and it's the only unit you have that will dish out mortal wounds when wound on 6. And make sure to put axe and shield, and both banners in it, they'll need it.

 

[Poltron]

3 hours ago, Congratz said:

By the way, does Nurgle Allegaince buff Clan Pestilens while playing against them?

Yep, everyone with the Nurgle keyword, friend or foe. The wheel basically helps the other army in that case if everyone has Nurgle in their keyword. Same for Blightkings or Lord of affliction aoe.

[sal4m4nd3r]

5 hours ago, Congratz said:

Heyo
Just bought the Start Collecting - Daemons of Nurgle and i am wondering what artefacts, spells and allegiance abilities there is best for a game with the box

thank you

 

Welcome! First thing I would do to add to your SC! box is get more plaguebearers! As for your questions though..

 

I would assume the pox bringer would be your general. In that case I would give him the Tome of A Thousand Poxes (artefact) to increase his spell casting, or the nurgles nail for a bit of fun! For spells.. I absolutley love Favored poxes. You wont be able to move or cast a spell.. but it is such a crippling debuff that if its on the right unit... you dont have to! As for command trait (your allegiance abilities are the contagion points, cycle of corruption, and feculant gnarlmaws) I would advice to either grandfathers blessing to manipulate the cycle better, or pestilent breathe for a decent shooting attack. 

3 hours ago, Congratz said:

By the way, does Nurgle Allegaince buff Clan Pestilens while playing against them?

Since the stink rats do have the nurgle keyword, any of your buffs which specify simply "nurgle units" are affected (positively or negatively) by the ability... even if they are the opponent.